The Soul

[browney14]

I have never been religious or believed in any kind of after life, being a very scientific person i always saw us as simply organic bodies, with just a chemically controlled brain and nothing else and personalities and such being genetics or slight differences in the brain.
I have not had an obe as of yet but i am working on it at whatever chance I get. now I believe in the astral it means I have major flaws in my beliefs and anything i currently believe or see as fact could be wrong. Has anyone else had this experience in which they had no `beliefs` outsides of mainstream scientific `fact` and realised there is so much more out there that they want to discover and learn about?  
Another thing i want to ask is, do you think the astral body is what most other people would call a "soul" wether they believe it exists or not, thinking about it, the best way i can describe a soul in my own words is "a spiritual/non-physical embodiment of our personality and demeanor", which seems like the astral body to me.
Finally i have a question that probably cant be answered but has been bugging me for a while, why do our physical brains have the capacity to remember when our astral bodies have a self sufficient memory, i.e when we die and the body decays. most of the brain is there for our physical body to survive. i.e. breathing and heartbeat systems. yet we have these abilities such as memory and the abitlity to think logically when we could just use the astral bodies `systems` which seem to be more `us` that our physical bodies are.
thanks for reading this, I am not a very good writer at all so excuse the grammatical errors, and thanks if you do answer my questions  
Aaron

[Volgerle]

do you think the astral body is what most other people would call a "soul" wether they believe it exists or not, thinking about it, the best way i can describe a soul in my own words is "a spiritual/non-physical embodiment of our personality and demeanor", which seems like the astral body to me.

Most esoteric teachings and also many experiences by projectors and occultists etc. state that the Astral Body is not the soul. The Soul, or Higher Self  or Total Self or I-There is (part of) sth much much higher, sth we cannot fully grasp at our low level here, but get a taste of sometimes.

Finally i have a question that probably cant be answered but has been bugging me for a while, why do our physical brains have the capacity to remember when our astral bodies have a self sufficient memory, i.e when we die and the body decays.

I personally came to believe, and some open-minded non-mainstream 'fringe' scientific theories about non-local / field memory also say so, that memory and thought and anything related to it does not 'take place' in the brain as such, let alone is 'produced' there. It is just an interface. Like a radio that receives sth but also can send (so it goes both ways). Data is (sent and) retrieved from 'elsewhere' (non-local space) and used in this dimension for experiences.

[kurtykurt42]

Finally i have a question that probably cant be answered but has been bugging me for a while, why do our physical brains have the capacity to remember when our astral bodies have a self sufficient memory, i.e when we die and the body decays. most of the brain is there for our physical body to survive. i.e. breathing and heartbeat systems. yet we have these abilities such as memory and the abitlity to think logically when we could just use the astral bodies `systems` which seem to be more `us` that our physical bodies are.

The brain processes memories which are stored in the soul / astral body.

[Xanth]

The brain processes memories which are stored in the soul / astral body.

You sure of that?

[kurtykurt42]

I'm sure of one thing. When it comes to Consciousness there are no certainties. Until we have the technology we won't know for sure.

[browney14]

Having technology thats says something dosent neccasarily make it true, we have machines that allow us to see every part of the body, and to some people that is all there is (which is kind of my point, that i used to belive that aswell) but there is something else besides flesh and bones. So if we ever have machines that allow us to see into the astral that dosent mean that is all there is, for all we know there could be a completely sperate place, not different planes of the astral but something completely different.
Aaron

[Volgerle]

Yes, and reality is probably way different from the picture that mainstream science (and media, and society) is creating.

Maybe, if you find the time, you can watch the lecture of T. Campbell, nuclear physicist and philosopher, about the possible nature of reality (or better: realities).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSkCblZYi34

There's many more to watch/read on this topic though from many open-minded experiencers and theoreticians (including scientists!), but it might be an interesting (mind-boggling?) start for you.  

[GodsProxy]

First of all, use your upbringing and education as a tool. Don't ever throw it away, and don't ever change your beliefs.

Now throw away every single thing you thought you knew.

Everything that you need to know or whatever is staring at you straight in the face. Now change or do whatever with your beliefs, just look at reality head on. Stop believing in authorities, education, whatever. Use everything in your power to come up to speed. This means: just look at the obvious, OBNOSIS.

Now. Believe that, its fine. For a jump start read my web site. If you disregard anything above or below, you've lost the plot.

Much love,

Neil

`beliefs` outsides of mainstream scientific `fact` and realised there is so much more out there that they want to discover and learn about?  

[Xanth]

don't ever change your beliefs.

Now throw away every single thing you thought you knew.

You are all over the place.

[GodsProxy]

There is one thing you can't teach, and that is independent thinking.

I'm saying, if you can't trust your own perception of reality, then trust mine.

That is all.

You are all over the place.

[Xanth]

 

Not gonna happen.  LOL

[astraladdict]

LOLOLOL

[Volgerle]

not sure if browney14 deserves such a kindnapped nonsense thread now

[GodsProxy]

hee hee.

See my Proof that time travel is Real post.

not sure if browney14 deserves such a kindnapped nonsense thread now

[bluremi]

I come from the same place as you, very skeptical and scientific-minded. It seems to me that astral projection and OBEs are a type of lucid dream, entirely created by our brains.

That said, I've read Monroe's books and his reported experiences suggest otherwise. That means he's either deluded (possible), lying for personal reasons (also possible), or correct in his beliefs (also, I must admit, possible). Since he seems like a very lucid and self-aware thinker, I'm reserving judgement until I get proficient at this myself and do some tests according to my own standards of evidence.

It's too early for you to be having a crisis of beliefs. Everything you've read is second-hand hearsay evidence. Your situation is like a Christian missionary arriving in Syria and saying to his compatriots "Holy crap, guys, have you read this Quran? I can't believe nobody told us about this, what have we been DOING?"

[Summerlander]

I have never been religious or believed in any kind of after life, being a very scientific person i always saw us as simply organic bodies, with just a chemically controlled brain and nothing else and personalities and such being genetics or slight differences in the brain.
I have not had an obe as of yet but i am working on it at whatever chance I get. now I believe in the astral it means I have major flaws in my beliefs and anything i currently believe or see as fact could be wrong. Has anyone else had this experience in which they had no `beliefs` outsides of mainstream scientific `fact`and realised there is so much more out there that they want to discover and learn about?

I'm a scientific person.  I think what we perceive as physical and non-physical are part of the same reality.  Perhaps thoughts will be found to be existent on a frequency beyond the ultrasonic one day.  With this postulation in mind, it is not hard to imagine that thoughts may be "physical" too but on a different level.  Let's consider how weird the quantum world of the physical realm is.  If we put things into perspective with an open-mind, we will see that this physical universe is nothing but a very slow, persistent and collapsed dream.  A dream shared by many individuated units of consciousness...people, animals...ahem...aliens.







 
Another thing i want to ask is, do you think the astral body is what most other people would call a "soul" wether they believe it exists or not, thinking about it, the best way i can describe a soul in my own words is "a spiritual/non-physical embodiment of our personality and demeanor", which seems like the astral body to me.
Finally i have a question that probably cant be answered but has been bugging me for a while, why do our physical brains have the capacity to remember when our astral bodies have a self sufficient memory, i.e when we die and the body decays. most of the brain is there for our physical body to survive. i.e. breathing and heartbeat systems. yet we have these abilities such as memory and the abitlity to think logically when we could just use the astral bodies `systems` which seem to be more `us` that our physical bodies are.
thanks for reading this, I am not a very good writer at all so excuse the grammatical errors, and thanks if you do answer my questions  
Aaron[/quote]

[Lionheart]

 I think the answer to your physical memory vs astral memory Summerlander had to do with time. We are ruled here in the physical world by time, but in the Astral time is so much different. Today I had a seesion that was incredible, the entire session from top to bottom was 30 mins. This is the fastest I have ever phased before, it felt like 5 ins to phase and 25 mins in the astral. The visuals were incredible, I was told just to observe, so I did. So much happened in this 25 mins that I had to be pinched in the shoulder by my guide to tell me to return. When I went to log it afterwards I know there was a number of things I missed to write about. The Astral is such an awe inspiring place and so much happens so quickly that retaining a full memory of the events is almost impossible. That is so much different from the physical, because here you could probably tell me what you did last Monday, what you ate, what you watched on TV etc.

[kurtykurt42]

I'm a scientific person.  I think what we perceive as physical and non-physical are part of the same reality.  Perhaps thoughts will be found to be existent on a frequency beyond the ultrasonic one day.  With this postulation in mind, it is not hard to imagine that thoughts may be "physical" too but on a different level.  Let's consider how weird the quantum world of the physical realm is.  If we put things into perspective with an open-mind, we will see that this physical universe is nothing but a very slow, persistent and collapsed dream.  A dream shared by many individuated units of consciousness...people, animals...ahem...aliens.

We can all think about this topic until the end of time and still never reach a conclusion.

Having technology thats says something dosent neccasarily make it true, we have machines that allow us to see every part of the body, and to some people that is all there is (which is kind of my point, that i used to belive that aswell) but there is something else besides flesh and bones. So if we ever have machines that allow us to see into the astral that dosent mean that is all there is, for all we know there could be a completely sperate place, not different planes of the astral but something completely different.
Aaron

Which is why we need technology that measures every dimensional plane in the Universe...

[bluremi]

What do you think happens to people with brain damage? Do their souls get brain damaged?

[GodsProxy]

Ok, in this reality, we are in a protective box. The box has been protected so that we can't see outside the box. Outside the box is how things work in the background - a good example, is asking the question, are we spirits, do we have a spirit, or did we evolve and are we purely physical beings. Since it seems hard to find any proof regarding the reply to this question, we can safely assume this is one of the "out of the box" questions. Sure you can "know" the answer - its more like a guess. That is what this whole thread is about.
For me, successfully astral projecting, answered one of the primary questions I had. I formed the conclusion that we are physical beings incarnated here, basically dual beings, a being having two parts. One part of a human is the physical body - a meat entity composed of carbon based molecules and atoms. The other part is the spirit - that part which is actually the driving force of the conciousness. I concluded that the physical body might have some small conciousness unto itself, but the spirit itself, is the back bone of the being - the gutspa. I concluded that the being survives death and exits the body upon physical death - this is when the spirit deems that the body is damaged beyond repair. It then goes in search of another baby body to take "possession of" - if you'll excuse my loose terminology - and hence, reincarnation would be a reality. Because the new baby has a completely different set of circumstances - memories are not retained between incarnations - you see they are not relevant, and the context is different, so they are not lost, but rather never have an opportunity to be remembered.
So this is fine - in my oppinion it is a fairly accurate world view.
However, and I cannot state this strongly enough, there are different levels of perception. At each different level of perception it is appropriate to view the world from a completely different perspective. The views seem completely opposed - but they are still correct - just from a level up, you understand how things are viewed from a level down. That is basically what I am doing in this reply to your post - I am assuming a view point from a level "down" (remember, up and down, right and wrong, are all relative terms, and have no intrinsic value.)
My most advanced and avant garde assumption, is that we can teach each other how to view the world from the very TOP level - that is how I replied to your post at first, and I make no apologies for that - we can teach each other to view the world from the TOP in a few sentences or a few dialogs. My offer still stands for you personally or anyone else. I'll take you up a gradient scale - which I'm not arrogant enough to assume is absolutely 100% to detail correct - but when you see it from there, you will see that it makes perfect sense all the way up and down.
... Neil ...

[Xanth]

What do you think happens to people with brain damage? Do their souls get brain damaged?

I view the brain as the filter through which our consciousness experiences this physical reality.
When the brain is "damaged" in some manner, depending upon the severity of the damage, it can impair how you experience this reality.

[bluremi]

I view the brain as the filter through which our consciousness experiences this physical reality.
When the brain is "damaged" in some manner, depending upon the severity of the damage, it can impair how you experience this reality.

So brain damaged people who project no longer have brain damage in their astral bodies?

[Stookie_]

So brain damaged people who project no longer have brain damage in their astral bodies?

Their astral bodies probably developed in a much different way during physical life, but at some point, just like you lose the physical body (which isn't "you"), you lose the astral body too (which also isn't "you") and move into another type of existence. If you believe in that kind of thing.

[stan]

browney14, according to Universal esoteric teachings, each human being currently have only consciousness, which is true you beyond thoughts and emotions. When you are aware of yourself and the present moment, then your consciousness is activated. Basically this awarness is consciousness.

Conciousness is a part of a greater Being which is separeted from it and which resides in higher dimension. That Being/Monad has many spiritual parts, each of them residing in different planes of existance. Parts such as the Soul, Atman, and other even more divine parts. If you have read Monroe's Ultimate Journey book, he speaks about his "I-There" and how he became one with it after 30 years of development. That "I-There" is equivalent to what in Hinduism is known as Spirit/Atman, a large part of ones own Being.
Bottom line is that what you think is you is only a tiny fraction of you. To truly know who and what you are you have to sacrifice your lower nature, or getting rid of a "heavy load", as Monroe would put it.

[Szaxx]

Hi
So if you are dreaming and part of your brain say swells somewhat, perhaps at the back where your visual images are formed, would this scotoma affect your dream imagery?
I already have the answer to this 100%, but this distortion, from what I've read here doesn't affect the percieved imagery in a fully lucid astral projection.
Enlighten me on both aspects of such an occurance if you can.