The Adept's Secret Technique

[Sapient]

I AM NOT ADVOCATING IN GENERAL DRUG USE. I AM NOT ADVOCATING THE USE OF LSD, SALVIA, CANNABIS, OPIATES, OR OTHER DRUGS.

I am advocating a VERY SPECIFIC CHEMICAL COMPOUND that may be beneficial for certain people in obtaining OBEs.

I'm going to stop replying after this, it's getting too negative for me which wasn't my intent. I was just really amazed by the idea that this could be a door to having a legitimate astral projection or out-of-body experience. I apologize if I've offended anyone.

Chris J.,

I'll try to explain the parable I wrote in the most simple way I can. The parable as about set nonfactual beliefs that due to a person or groups close mindedness can have negative consequences. I wrote that my friend died because his parents didn't believe in using modern medicine, as they put all their faith through God and supernatural healing. To them it didn't matter what was factual, it was what the believed, and that prevented my friend from living.

Are you not seeing nonfactual beliefs due to a persons close mindedness having negative consequences here? I can give a very specific example which you yourself read not too long ago...

Lionheart,

You really don't seem to be genuinely reading what I've wrote with an open mind. Which is fine... I couldn't have accepted this even year ago myself. Furthermore I am taking this subject very seriously. And yes there is a reason for me taking it when I can already project naturally. From what I've read I belief it will make it a more profound and deeper experience.

I'm done though. I wasn't trying to make this a druggy post and I'm offended that street drugs were even brought up. You guys are some of the most close minded open minded people I know. Just goes to show that OBEs and AP are another belief system territory on the highway. Read Monroe's books if you don't get the reference. Anyway I'm gone, if someone reads this in a few years and needs a mentor my email address is dulake@gmail.com

Later all. I gave it my best shot.

[CFTraveler]

to lionheart:    sorry to disagree but i get what your saying yet still, man has legs to travel why use a car....a train....a horse....plane...ect     because thats the way man kind is (work smarter not harder,my dad use to always say)

That's funny, the kids in that video didn't look smarter.

[Darklon]

That's funny, the kids in that video didn't look smarter.

Hahahahaha, no offense to you people who enjoy your drugs but it seems that you are here because you are looking to justify your drug use. You really don't need it, astral travel is not the release of DMT, it is the temporary separation from your physical body into the next dimension (4th dimension). You will never have an experience as amazing as it could be if you continue to rely on external substances. Go and ask some beings from the (middle to high part of the) astral what they think maybe.

[Lionheart]

 You are saying with the use of drugs, everyone could experience the Astral. I truly don't think everyone is ready for this. Many noted NDEr/OBErs have said that this has completely turned their lives and the meaning of their life upside down. I believe that we are not supposed to access the Astral consciously aware until it beckons us first!

[shineling]

I've taken a lot of drugs myself. LSD, Ayahuasca, Cannabis, etc.

A DMT trip is nothing like an astral projection. In an astral projection you are in control. If you're on drugs tho, you could end up anywhere. I think that's a key point. Control.

It's taken me 20 years to learn to astral project really well. I mean, I can do it at will everytime. Even if there was a drug that could make you astral project you would always need to rely on the drug to get you there. It's easy to say that maybe the drugs help beginners and they might open your mind to what it possible... but it's not good to depend on them at all. And there is always a dependence factor once we start using them.

Just be patient... the Universe is much better explored sober and in control of your mind. One day, what was "out there" and unattainable becomes "what is here" and now. You don't need a drug. You'll loose control every time. Lets be honest. At least your control will be diminished and that's not what you want while your traveling other dimensions. The unexpected is always prevelant in the astral. You need to be sober.

You see, there are two worlds happening when you astral project. The world of your own dreams and the actual astral plane you are on. You need to really concentrate so that you don't start dreaming. The level of concentration you need is ENORMOUS - so you can actually see the astral plane without your dreams manifesting. There is no way you could do this while on drugs.

[Rudolph]

It's taken me 20 years to learn to astral project really well. I mean, I can do it at will everytime. Even if there was a drug that could make you astral project you would always need to rely on the drug to get you there.

This kinda gets back to what Stookie said last week. Conscious intent is key.

I never got into drugs. I did my meditation exercises and daily awareness exercises and kept a dream journal. The spontaneous "OBE" would happen now and then. They were always amazing, some lasted a good long while, and they were usually well above the Astral plane -- never in the RTZ.

Since trying to get OBE by conscious effort and intent I can get out much more frequently but the experiences are lackluster in comparison, mostly.

If a teacher came to me and said "I can move your OBE skill up several notches with Ayahuasca and psilocybin and I could see from his other students that he might have something going there, I might consider it. But what I see is those who use those drugs are clueless. (to put it mildly)

I was watching a video on David Icke and it was just a joke. An endless stream of idiotic nonsense but... he assured us that we could trust him because it was all verified during a 5 hour Ayahuasca trip where he conversed (very lucidly, mind you) with a humanoid creature who had a sense of humor.

no thanks.

[shineling]

See the thing with these trips they are taking is that they are dreamed. They are their own dreams.

To see the actual astral plane clearly requires, like I said, an enormous amount of concentration. You have to stay awake not just during the falling asleep phase, but during the astral projection itself. Otherwise you will start dreaming. If you think it's a fantasy world and easy then you are dreaming. If you really want to see the astral you have to concentrate all the way to stay awake. It gets easier with practice. You have to be lucid the entire time. This is impossible to do with drugs. Drugs are an escape into your own little lala land.... which is fun sometimes. Don't get me wrong.   But this is how it's set up. You have to be on point all the time and make choices like that!

[Rudolph]

If you really want to see the astral you have to concentrate all the way to stay awake. It gets easier with practice. You have to be lucid the entire time.

I have not heard put quite like that before.

But I have mentioned on this forum how I was getting the impression that most people slip into an LD shortly after projecting.

Why do you use the word "concentrate"? Getting OBE in the first place required concentration but once I was out I was off to the races. I have successfully moved into the Central Astral region from the RTZ and I have tried and failed at other times. The ability to concentrate did not feel 'key' to either my successes or failures. It seemed more like a kind of energy related thing... but I am not sure how to describe it.

[shineling]

Have you considered that you might have been dreaming this experience?

In my own experience 99% of people are wide-the-frak asleep for most of their lives. This becomes completely apparent when we astral project. At once we'll start hallucinating our own haven.

To be awake... and I mean really AWAKE is a completely new experience for 99 out of 100 people. It might be because of the society we live in but almost nobody lives their lives awake these days. We're usually bored, daydreaming, thinking of our happy spot or dream.

When we enter the astral most of us will start dreaming right away. To actually see the astral plane we are on, requires us to be 100% awake. The astral plane next to our physical plane for example is a complete facsimile. It's exactly the same. When people report that they see odd rooms or odd shapes it means they are dreaming. Usually if you encounter any pleasant, laid-back, experience while astral projecting it means you are dreaming.

Being awake is the next level of evolution. And of course there's no way you can do that on drugs.

[Darklon]

http://www.psychedelicmeditation.com/ oh yeah

[Rudolph]

Have you considered that you might have been dreaming this experience?

Were you asking me?
Which experience, exactly? (there are a number of them). I always consider dreaming as a possibility. And I do not consider the Astral 100% awake. There are much higher levels requiring much more refined awareness.

So... back to this concentration point. Is that really the word you want to use in this case?

[777Sloan]

I'm with Stookie on this.

If you can't do this under your own power, keep plugging away at it until you do.
The importance here, at least in my opinion, is figuring out how to do all this.  If you're given these experiences on the silver platter of chemicals, you're really not helping yourself learn at all.

Using chemicals is a big step BACKWARDS.

DMT, "the spirit molecule," is naturally produced in the body.  OBEs, astral projection, and NDEs, lucid dreaming are likely connected with DMT.  DMT is no more a chemical than other substances produced in the body. 

That said, I would be wary using it from sources outside of what is naturally produced in your body.  It is probably the most powerful psychedelic on Earth.