talking too much

Tom · May 02, 2003, 15:18:59

Why do you say that? Do you know anyone who is enlightened?

fredhedd · May 02, 2003, 16:01:19

many people have a brief spiritual encounter that starts them on the right track. because the experience was so powerful, they have lots of motivation. preaching about doing the right thing and how they are going to change their lives is common afterwards.

even though their will is so very strong at first, it fades w/ the memory of the actual experience. the memory of having an experience stays though, usually. i think this is why there is the 'left over talk'. they remember that there was some great occurence that had such an impact. enough where they started talking about dramatically changing their lives. the details get fuzzy though and the validity starts to get questioned.

because of all of the distraction of daily life, everything gets forgotten and it's so easy to go right back to what was going on beforehand.

also i think deep down everyone feels that enlightenment is the path to be on. even if they don't realize they feel that way. kind of like a true colors shining through type of thing.

why people procrastinate and act in ways that are't in accordance w/ their beliefs is something i've always wanted the answer to. i think it's a bigger deal than it seems when someone feels one way about something and then acts in an opposing manner. it happens all of the time. maybe it's mostly out of laziness.

Tom · May 02, 2003, 16:10:05

Powerful experiences are nothing.

fredhedd · May 02, 2003, 16:19:29

what do you mean by that? is that relative to something else, that is powerful?

powerful experiences are what led me to the path i'm on now. w/out those few i don't think i'd be where i'm at right now.

i think they can have great impact, if it's not the persons choice that they are to be ignored.

Tom · May 02, 2003, 16:24:35

Powerful experiences are nothing. Really. Most of the time there are no lasting results. Many people have powerful experiences and forget them.

fredhedd · May 02, 2003, 16:26:32

so then we are agreeing here?

Adrian · May 02, 2003, 16:36:48

Greetings,

I believe that many people are more Spiritually aware than they realise themselves, but choose to shut it out, preferring their life the way it is in a materialistic sense. Being Spiritually aware is one thing, altering your life to dedicated Spiritual ascent, and thereby rejecting all materialism, creed and dogma, and making all of the necessary sacrifices and disciplines is quite another, and many people are simply not ready, and/or aware of how to Spiritually progress.

This is where the Internet has become such an immensely valuable medium over the last five or ten years. Many people believe in "life after death", which we of course know as the Astral realms and higher the Mental realms. I think alot of people also believe in reincarnation, but choose to keep their thoughts to themselves on this matter, especially if they or their family are religious. Even religious people can believe in "heaven" which is the mid-Astral, and others believe in the "Summerland" which is also the mid-Astral.

My parents are not religious in the slightest, and I would not have considered them Spiritually aware either, but when my grandfather passed on some years ago at the age of 89, I was extremely surprised to be told that another of my relations (who I think is a medium and/or a psychic) had "made contact" with my grandfather a few hours after his passing, and he wanted everyone to know that he was absolutely fine. All of this seemed perfectly normal to all concerned. I of course fully understood and believed that was indeed so, but nevertheless, such statements and calm unquestioning acceptance coming from my own parents was quite a surpise to say the least!

Regarding helping people consciously start the ascent on the path - this only comes to those who are ready for it - otherwise they will remain totally oblivious to higher Spiritual realities until such time as they have gained enough experience, learned lessons, equilibrated Karma through successive lifetimes. As Master Jesus (Joshua) said "do not cast your pearls before the swine". He wasn't being rude, but rather merely making the point that trying to teach Spiritual truths to those who are not ready will be a waste of time at best, and counter-productive at worst.

When people become Spiritually awakened, they are inspired by beings of the higher/inner spheres to seek their true path, and when this happens the awakened person will search the Internet and find resources such as this, they search Amazon, local libraries and so on. As I said, the Internet is an extremely powerful resource for seekers of the truth and those starting their great ascent on the path, and as recently as just five years ago people had only libraries and bookshops, unless they were able to contact an esoteric order in the physical world, or found themselves Astral projecting to the higher/inner worlds. Many of course would find Spiritually oriented religions such as Buddhism.

As I have also said many times before, I believe that this decade is vital to mankind, and is the reason we are seeing such an upsurge in activity by the dark forces who are trying to destablise the world and humanity. To counter this we have the Internet, and also the continued existence and growth of many extremely powerful forces for the light.

With best regards,

Adrian.

fredhedd · May 02, 2003, 16:41:57

star wars is just a movie, i know. i can't help but think of it though when reading that last part.

Adrian · May 02, 2003, 16:50:36

Greetings fredhedd,

Star Wars contains several quotes of wisdom, whether Lucas knew it or not - I think he does. Some of my favourites are:

"Your focus determines your reality" -- Quai Gonn Gin

"Fear leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" -- Yoda

And of course, the "Force" does exist in the form the Akasha (including the Elements and Electric and Magnetic Fluids) and Vital Energy (Prana, Chi, Ki etc..) and those who are trained, as well as Masters, Adepts etc. can of course make great use of the "Force".

As for the dark forces agáinst the forces of Light - again - I don't know whether Lucas was inspired in some way, but the Sith and Jedi apart, we are most definitely seeing the start of such a battle now, and there are agents of darkness working in both the physical world as well as the higher spheres.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Fyrenze · May 02, 2003, 17:37:08

[?]

quote:
Originally posted by Adrian

"Fear leads to hate, hate leads to suffering" -- Yoda

[?]

[?]I'm not trying to be a pain here, but wasn't it actually "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering"[?]

And while "talk is cheap," it is the only form of communication some people know. I think it's a very good thing to have places where one can say or ask what he or she wants. Bad things happen when folk can't express themselves.

][\/][

goingslow · May 02, 2003, 21:28:11

Since when is spiritual development a science.

oooh so like do X then do Y and you'll be enlightened. I dont see any proof or any logical reason to think spiritual development should be easier to grasp than any other science. In fact because It's so subjective it can't be classified by a science at all.

I dont really get this thread..

ralphm · May 02, 2003, 22:08:27

This thread reminds me of one of my favorite books, Cutting through spiritual Materialism, by Chogyam Trungpa.Read it.

the_demigod · May 03, 2003, 02:43:30

quote:
Originally posted by goingslow

Since when is spiritual development a science.

oooh so like do X then do Y and you'll be enlightened. I dont see any proof or any logical reason to think spiritual development should be easier to grasp than any other science. In fact because It's so subjective it can't be classified by a science at all.

I dont really get this thread..

It's not a science.
It's an Art [with a capital A]

Nick · May 03, 2003, 09:02:13

quote:
If one focuses solely on their own enlightment they 'might' achieve it earlier. However, they 'likely' would not have learned about self, human nature and the importance of servitude in their process of enlightment.

Timeless- What you wrote about servitude is, I believe, a very important component of individual spiritual development. On the one hand communication, and on the other, doing those tasks that by actions serve others. Doing so humbly can help others spiritually because they are witnessing a selfless act which, hopefully, will have touched them spiritually as well.

goingslow · May 03, 2003, 16:51:38

hmmm I might try that on my girlfriend..

I hate cleaning toilets myself.

Adrian · May 04, 2003, 13:48:36

Greetings Fyrenze,

quote:
Originally posted by Fyrenze

[?]I'm not trying to be a pain here, but wasn't it actually "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, and hate leads to suffering"[?]

Yes, I am sure you are right [

] It still holds equally true however.

quote:

And while "talk is cheap," it is the only form of communication some people know. I think it's a very good thing to have places where one can say or ask what he or she wants. Bad things happen when folk can't express themselves.
][\/][

I agree, especially in matters such as we discuss on these forums, which, to many, are regarded by the majority with scepticism at best, and heresy at worst. These issues are fundamentally important to the future of all of mankind, and it is accordingly vital that there are fora where things can be openly discussed among like minded people.

With best regards,

Adrian.

Tom · May 04, 2003, 13:50:47

To clarify, I know many people who have talked for years about meditation who have not started actually doing it. They think they want to free themselves, but they do not act on that intention.

Mustardseed · May 04, 2003, 16:23:47

Hi all
Very interesting thread and very wise comments. For myself the chapter in 1 Corinthians 13 makes a lot of sense. If you have a bible you should read it. There is sooo much knowledge out there but knowledge alone is worthless there is also wisdom and sacrifice and on and on but without LOVE it is all nothing. Its like someone said great feeling and powerful experiences are nothing since they often have no result. A simple and innocent "little" person just out there cleaning the toilets or doing the dishes raising his /her kids in LOVE or whatever might actually be closer to the answers than we are. After all if we have eternity ahead of us there is still time to learn. I realise that that might not go over so well with people who spend countless hours trying to attain to great spiritual hights maybe meditating etc, but isn't life also about fulfilling your destiny. Maybe the end result is not that we all learn to go flying around exploring "new worlds" so to speak . Maybe we are all just supposed to find "our place" . Sometimes I have counselled young Christians along these lines. Most want quick results with healing answers to prayer big congregations all the glory and all the closeness to God that they expect comes along with it. Often it is just a pridetrip but often a misguided desire to help people along faster than they are ready to go. People do get healed but when they are ready to recieve healing, people do have experiences with being born again (as we call it) but not till they are ready and I assume people also get OBE insight as well as mystical experiences when they are ready. Maybe being ready is being aware of ones own insignificance and how "guided "life really is. If we could see clearly through the vail I think we would be surprised. Sometimes I feel that people desireing and attaining spiritual experiences Christians and non Christians are like Children being given gifts from a parent and being so engrossed in playing with them they forget the one who gave them.
Kind regardsMustardseed

goingslow · May 04, 2003, 18:32:17

hmmm

the bible isnt for everyone.
Christianity isnt for everyone. Its definitely not for me. Just living an everyday life isnt for everyone either. Thats what's great. people have different things they need to do with their life.

seeking spiritual enlightenment isnt forgetting "who" gave it to you.. its getting closer to it. On your own.. without religious dogma that says you're not really able to.

Mustardseed · May 04, 2003, 19:22:14

Double Hmmmmmm to you then. :)I agree Christianity is most definately not for everyone and ok, if you want to include yourself there with the ones its not for, thats fine with me. Maybe we do agree on things, but how about you turning that around and examining yourself, and your views. I often hear a rather negative use of the word "dogma " but be careful that you yourself do not become dogmatic in this forum. One should think that a selfrighteous judgement of others and their path, would be quite "unhealthy" , astrally speaking that is, maybe you are creating for yourself a world where you are more important than you really are , (in reality). If you seek for enlightenment by seeking how who where etc getting closer as you might say,...well more power to you. However others might have another view and way, are they narrowminded by doing what they think is right for them or are you narrowminded for looking down on them (me) for persuing such a (dogmatic) religion. I believe that you are right about some things, partly right about others, and wrong about some (besides the fact that there is a universe chock block full of things you most likely have not got the slightest hope of ever even attempting to even faintly understand). But hey welcome to the club.

No offence meant to anyone here. I do project myself have been greatly helped by Robert Bruces books and have the highest regard for the forum and the seeking of truth that is going on here.
Kind regards Mustardseed

Mustardseed · May 04, 2003, 19:34:57

OOPS I forgot to ask . If you want to persue it on your own ....well what are you doing here and how come you are all sharing tips and helping hints and so on.? It seems you are all getting a lot of help from each other and that seems also to be the focus of the forum to help each other. so .......get my point we are all in this together and we better figure out how to help each other rather than critisise each others life experiences, that is actually what turned me off about Churchanity all the feuding and backbiting and putting each other down over doctrines Pentecost fighting Babtist fighting Mormon etc That could be shias and Sunis too. I wanna live my life with people who respond with " wow interesting tell me more about how you see that, how does that work with such and such" Rather then "your compleately wrong you have to be becourse you are a Christian and dogmatic and I never met a Christian who wasnt so you must be too so bye"
Whatta ya say
Kind Regards Mustardseed

Mustardseed · May 04, 2003, 19:37:38

Selah !!

Mustardseed · May 04, 2003, 21:20:14

Point well taken Timeless, I apologise to you Going slow if I offended you. That was not my intent. I do not assume to know what is in your heart or mind. What I had a big question about is his statement "Spiritual enlightenment is........." and then "it is not...." That to me is being Dogmatic, the very thing he is arguing that Christianity is guilty of!! Does anyone here believe they know "what" enlightenmernt is. What about the qoute "in what soever state I am in to be content wether abounding or abased" To me that is certainly also enlightenment, just to exist and truly enjoying it.But for the sake of argument maybe the question should be "what is enlightenment" . Just for the record I am not upset or anything but rather like Robert Bruce prefer to call it debating candidly. I prefer an open debate rather than Statements of belief which I felt his remarks was...His belief.Basically just his reality. During My 2 decades in the mid and far east I am well aquainted with the Bahai faith. Wonderful people very sincere. Maybe I need to speak softer I will try it does not come easy, ha as I said I am a Scorpio and tend to suffer with that at times.

I had a dream I was in Heaven a angel with a cross around his neck was leading me down a heavenly pathway with beautiful mansions on either side. He was guiding me welcoming me to heaven and explaining...over here lives the bahai folks niceer people are hard to find, great cooking, over there lives the jews they sure are smart folks but I find they argue a bit much for my liking and over there the muslems they pray a lot and dont you just love their beards on and on explaining. After a while we passed a park where all these people were sitting around meditating . He stopped for a moment and tucked his cross inside his shirt before he proceded and with a smile said yes well and we are very careful when we pass these folks they are still seeking enlightenment and they dont believe there are any Christians up here.

Well ok it wasn't a real dream and maybe I am poking a bit at some but I sure hope that if we meet in the heavenlies we will be able to get along, without being so solem and sensitive. Sometimes I feel we get too serious debating these things and part of my comments were actually all in good fun.
Regards Mustardseed

goingslow · May 05, 2003, 00:26:16

Mustardseed:

The first comment I made that the bible isn't for everyone, I was actually thinking of other religions. There are other religions out there besides christianity. Some people are religious, but dont really study the bible.

I said "Thats what's great. people have different things they need to do with their life." Meaning Im aware everyone has a differnt path. For some its religion but thats not for everyone.

My comment on spiritual enlightenment was refering to where you said people seeking spiritual experiences often forget who gave them the present(paraphrase). My point was a person who really is seeking spiritual experiences is very aware of the gift. My definition of spiritual enlightenment means they seek to understand "the gift" on their own terms. I was talking more about the definition not rules on attaining it. I cant imagine a person who claims to seek "spiritual experiences" but aren't very aware of the gift etc. Im sure its possible, but thats just my definition of the word.

I wasn't putting down any religion, I dont think religion is a bad thing. I guess I dont classify myself as christian based on a Christians definition.. But that doesn't mean I dont have respect for Jesus etc.. I think there are good messages in the Bible. I think i was responding to your breakdown of Christians and non christians.

Timeless:

You're right about the religion thing Im not offended by it. I enjoy a lot of the passages I've seen you and others put up. I think the bible has a lot of wisdom. The only time I argue is if someone is using the words to condemn another group etc..

Thank you for your post, I appreciate it. [

]

Mustardseed · May 08, 2003, 14:34:15

Well I read your posts and in actuality I dont think we are so far away from each other as one might think. It is kind of difficult for me to debate as every point brings out another response and it sort of rippels like a wave. So let me explain again and refrase my comment. I must beg to differ , I have seen many many people very gifted who take the credit to themselves and couldn't care who gave it or why. People are gifted in various ways with beauty talent intelligence karisma as well as the various more spiritual gifts of latent or active spiritual gifts clairvoince obe etc etc. Many people do not reason from the point of God or whatever one chooses to call "it" and instead of trying to find out how they can use this gift for humanity others god or whatever, instead hoard it using it to further their own ego. This seems obvious to me and happens everywhere in this forum as well as other groups churches. I find that problematic. As far as most of these groups that at least I know of they soon form a clique with people of like mind and wether on purpose or not shut others out this is being done by forming a "dogma" beliefsystem and assuming that if you want to be included you must adhere to it. Sort of a "I know better attitude" I find that happening here. They then use different words loaded with energies to shut others out certain words that stand for being misguided. The churches use heretic unbeliever, you in this forum seem to favour the words "dogmatic, narrowminded etc" both of which are losded as they mean that "he is a heretic infidel I am a true diciple he is unbelieving I am believing he is dogmatic I am a freethinker he is narrow minded I am broadminded" the very use of these words and the attitude that comes with them is in its core judgemental (as I see it at least) and tend to seperate rather than look for things we agree on. If you look for the disagreement the theig we do not agree on the thing that negates another view well....astrally speaking I would say you might be creating a reality where you really are more enlightened than you think. I often wonder if this whole astral world we seem to percieve as indefenite all the feelings and emotion all the self impoirtance all the seeking higher enlightenment is just the "gameroom"in gods house. Maybe and just maybe the real reality is just way way WAY bigger that we can ever fathom and maybe all our discussions here postings on the board etc etc is merely the chatter of kids playing with sandcastles at the beach.
Please understand I am not putting you or anyone else down for trying as I said I meditate I astral travel lucid dream etc and I am very happy and exieted and feel as much on a quest as anyone but sometimes I wonder.....Thats all I think you can agree to at least some of this. Take care.
Regards Mustardseed

News:

talking too much

Tom

Tom

Tom

Tom