Telekinesis/Psychokenesis articles

[cainam_nazier]

Very interesting.  I gave the first one a read and have desided to try it.  I do not see much difference from practicing the new system.  Its just that you have to practice.  I rather liked the part about challenging your beliefes.  It mostly fits in with what Mr. Bruce says along thoughs lines.  I will post if I have any results.

Here is a quicky because I already tried the dice trick.

1st roll of 100...Test
1=12 2=14 3=20 4=15 5=25 6=16
2nd roll of 100...same die. trying to force 4.
1=14 2=12 3=15 4=22 5=19 6=13    Result positive out come.
3rd roll of 100...New die no pretest.  Trying to force 4
1=20 2=13 3=20 4=17 5=19 6=13   Result.  Kinda ran like the 1st test. No realy positive number.  Hard to tell.  I am going to keep trying.




"But where is my other hand!!!"


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com

[antiloop]

Hi thinker,

There were some interesting articles on that first link. The second one however; well, the source just seems a bit on the flaky side, especially when he starts quoting stuff from Star Wars.

As for the rolling die experiment. I don't see what this has to do with Telekenisis. Since the word implies movement through thought. And not guessing or dealing with probabilities/clairvoyance, altering the outcome of something in the future.

The "psi-wheel / energy wheel" etc experiment seems like an interesting and popular one. Whether you build it out of paper or tin foil, I think most people can get some immediate results. At least when they cup their hands over it. But I find all these methods highly unscientifically tested. Most people do not check thoroughly enough for minute air currents prior to attempting this without the hand. Even if your windows are shut and your doors closed, if you stand 10 feet away from it and it still moves, you still have air currents. Until the wheel stays completely still for a couple of minutes (unlikely in most rooms), I wouldn't be overly convinced of any results you attain if you proceed with your experiment. An easy way to see how volatile the air currents are is to beside the psi-wheel stick a incense stick vertically up and quite a bit higher than the psi-wheel so its smoke wont affect it, and just look at the smoke patterns going up. If the smoke is going directly up without much distortion and the psi-wheel isn't moving at all, then I'd say you've isolated air currents fairly well from the experiment. Also, when you do come close enough to it to perform the experiment, be sure to get one of those surgeon mouth/nose covers with the elastic that goes around your head so that your breath isn't the source of the movement of the wheel. If you don't have one of those, improvise with a piece of paper and an elastic or something of the sort. Those cloth based eye blinders they give out in air planes work well for this.

I also wonder if the reason the wheel moves is not due to minute static electric charge in our hands. To explain what I am saying here, simply take some clear plastic wrap, also known as surrand wrap (sp?) - the stuff we use in the kitchen to cover plates with left-overs before we put them in the fridge.

Get out your roll, and tear off a sheet of about a foot in length, then simply take the top edge and press it down on the end of a table so that most of it hangs off the edge. Now slowly approximate your hand toward it and you will see the clear plastic wrap move toward your hand - a simple display of static electricity. The same stuff that makes balloons stick to your head when you rub them on your hair. So what's this got to do with a psi-wheel?  Well now tear off a small piece of paper, about 1/2 the size of a finger nail and approximate it to the clear plastic wrap, eventually the paper will JUMP onto it and stick like glue. The same thing occurs with tin foil.

So if you've completely blocked out the "wind/air current" as the source of moving your psi-wheel, I question if static electricity isn't the source of its movement - whether you build it out of paper or tin foil.

The one arguement I can come up with against the static electricity generation from your hand is that if indeed this was true, the wheel would in theory spin once until one of its edges would be closest to the point in your hand generating the greater amount of static charge and then the wheel would stop there and not move, or slightly vibrate from side to side, but not rotate anymore.

Heat from your hands is another issue which I'd raise against this TK experiment.  Perhaps the minute heat generated from your hand creates  tiny air currents to make the wheel spin. This however, would not explain why the wheel changes direction every now and then...seeing as heat would only go upwards and thus one would think that the wheel would only spin in one direction if this were the cause.

If somebody claims and can show that they can make the psi wheel rotate in one direction for X seconds, then stop, and reverse direction for X seconds and then stop, UNDER A TRANSPARENT GLASS(which would block out the wind, heat sources, and most small electric static charges) from a distance of say 2 or 3 feet (no hands this time, only mind)... Then I would be convinced that person has TK abilities. I'd like to see some of those "TK" teachers out there on the web claim they can actually do this, REPEATEDLY say 5 out of 5 tries in a row successfully. If yes, then I would actually listen to what they have to say as far as their teachings. If not.. time to move on.

IF ANYBODY CAN DO THIS IN THIS FORUM, PLEASE STAND UP!

I don't doubt TK is real even if I have not seen it to my satisfaction, but I do doubt some of these web-TK-teachers and their unorthodox/unscientific approaches to this interesting phenomenon.

It is like writing an essay in school. If you want to try to prove a point, then you need to take all oposing ideas into consideration and disprove them one by one... Once you have done that and your concept is the only one left standing, then you have done your job, otherwise, you leave big gapping holes for skeptics to hack through.

They have plenty of motivation and they dedicate plenty of practice time it seems, and kudos to them for that, but they need to be more thorough in their "lab" experiments.

Just my 2 cents.. ok, ok, 2 dollars worth

antiloop

[cainam_nazier]

Okay some good points.
Now i have been trying some of these things but I automatically rule out the minute.  I will continue trying until I have a solid and definite responce from an object.  As of yet there have not been any major results but I still try and I still believe that it can, and will happen.




"The shadow rules in the cover of night."


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com

[Tom]

My favorite telekinesis joke is this: "If anyone here can do telekinesis, please raise my hand."

Force = mass times acceleration. Work is force over a distance. If an object is moved either by mind or conventional means, work is still done and the laws of physics apply. I'm told, though, that the mass of an object being moved stops making a difference at some point. Either the energy used to move the objects is so readily available that even large objects are insignificant or something is happening when telekinesis is used that follows a different set of rules and only the appearance is the same. What I want to know is which it is.

[Winged_Wolf]

From observations--PK requires a LOT of energy, focused in a VERY narrow and specific fashion.  Seems to be associated with the solar plexus nerve cluster.  And it's extremely difficult to learn to control.
I personally would be happy with the method of a person who could achieve PK 1 out of every 5 times, on a consistant basis.  That IS impressive.  People tend to set their sights much too high with this ability.


--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

[antiloop]

Hi Tom, great joke. I'll have to remember that one, even if the raising of the arm is actually obtainable by other types of occult abilities as opposed to telekinesis, but funny none the less.

From the theory and little research I've done on this topic (and not from personal experience), it is apparent to me that the "forces/energy" acting upon an object by means of telekinesis can not be sole summarized by Newtonian physics. If this were so, there would be no mystery, for today we have a clear understanding of such physics.

I should however point out that (again based on texts I've read), from the various people who claim to have such abilities and attempt to offer insight in terms of instruction always state to start with small objects and to make attempts from pre-determined approximate distances. Not once have I read a text telling me to try lifting a car or a mountain from the other side of the world. With this in mind, Newtonian physics would obviously play some roll after all.

I would say this is a manifestation in the macro world through the micro world.

Let me attempt a theoretical explanation:

1) The act is manifested by means of non-visible sub-atomic influence directed by concentration (one-pointedness) of the mind.

2) The final affect can only be recognized when the force/strength of such concentration is able to influence millions/billions+ of sub-atomic particles, thus creating a visible manifestation.

3) The force required to lift an object is directly proportional to the strength of the concentration, the distance between the concentrator and the object, and the weight of the object.

The only unknown here as far as modern physics goes is that of how concentration can influence sub-atomic particles - To this I have no further insight, although perhaps the inter-relation between Quantum physics / string theories and consciousness may offer some level of explanation. But this is a bit over my head. Here's a great article on such theory:

http://www.thymos.com/tat/consc3.html

Wishes of enlightenment to all,
antiloop

PS. What I find really interesting about such theories (re: quantum physics article) is that what science attributes as a bleeding edge discovery has been known in the occult world for thousands and thousands of years...

And I paraphrase:

'The Universe is Mental in its nature, and Mental Transmutation is the art of changing the conditions of the Universe in terms of matter, force and mind - This is the true Spirit or "THE ALL", and its manifestation the real "Magic" '

In other words: "The Universe is Mental; THE ALL is Mental"

- The Kybalion

http://bobert1.home.mindspring.com/kybalion.html


Edited by - antiloop on 10 April 2002  05:47:43

[cainam_nazier]

The thing of it that you have to apply bits and parts of different scientific fields.  You have to take what we know of quatum physics, moleciluar physics, newtonian physics, and the medical science.  Now in the first three gravity effects differs from field to field.  Basic newtonian says gravity is a constant, but quatum argues different because certain space anamolies have different gravity fields in respects to stregth, and to get even more confusing would be at molecular level were gravity effects are based of the molecual being affected. Just a side note, Popular Science Magazine published an article a year or so ago entitled, Unified Physics in 50 years.  They are working on combining all levels of physics down to one basic set of rules.  So far they have gotten everthing down to 2 basics but they are having the most problems with getting molecular and quatum physics down.  Plus with some of the more rescent discoveries in quatum physics that have blown some of the most solid arguments out of the water.  
Sorry side tracked.
Now stick with me here.  And anyone who wishes to correct/add to this feel free as I am no expert.  Just well rounded.
Starting with medical.  The brain is known to emitt certain wave lengths or more basically(not really), small amounts of fluctuating, positive and negitive, bio-electic energy.  This is a given.  They have equipment that can detect and monitor this.  This is one of the ways they cann tell if a critical patient is,  forgive the term, brain dead which is the brain no longer has the copacity to keep the body going.  Now through learning to control this so that the mind fluctuates less or heavily to one side you could then,  theoretically (sp?) effect things at an atomic level.  You could bind various molecules together to produce the desiered effect.  This being because they carry a positive or negative charge.
Now accumilating enough particles in the correct spot could change the effect of gravity on an object.  This of course pending the base charge of the object to be affected.  And that there was control enough not to group the particles together in sucha way as to form another completly new object.  Rather the point would be to control the energies that bind and group them together.  Granted the larger or rather more dense an object is the more that would be needed to effect change.  With the exception being at a quatum level were gravity is not a constant.





"Insert quote here."


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com

[Winged_Wolf]

I disagree that Newtonian physics can't be applied to PK, by the way.  I don't see why it couldn't be.
You expend a huge amount of energy to move something, after all.
One interesting incident with PK--my mentor had a student working on moving a water glass (she'd done this before).  It was in a restaurant, and he reached over to get the sugar...thought his arm was high enough, but it wasn't....he put his arm through the beam of energy she was projecting, and was left with a quarter-sized bruise on it.


--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

[cainam_nazier]

If I can remember correctly.

"For ever action there is an equal but opposite reaction."  Should fall under Newtonian Physics.  And this rule needs to be applied.  You need to think of the amount force required to move an object.
Other things also play into moving any object through amost any means.  Size, weight, mass, friction, velocity, pressure, and so.  All of these things will be applied.

Besides Newtonian Physics is like the basis for all other forms.  But it can not fully explain TK as antiloop stated.




"Ya do the hokey pokey and ya turn yourself around, and that's what it's all about."


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com

[Tom]

Newtonian laws of physics are good for most things and then other things such as relativity and quantum mechanics take over. Maybe there are laws of the mental and astral planes which can be made to take over under some conditions, but I'm still convinced that Newton is right about moving most physical objects. The reason why most things happen physically or chemically is that the system results in a lower energy level as a result. Even if energy has to be added to allow the change, the result should be a drop in energy and an increase in entropy. What is still not clear to me is if there is some sort of loophole which can be taken advantage of or if it is really necessary to raise as much energy as would be required physically to do the job. I suspect that it really is necessary to raise the full amount of energy, but then what are the rules for converting psi to physical energy and how much is lost in the process?

[cainam_nazier]

I do not think that in all cases you would need to raise the same amount of energy that you need to do the job physically.  This being a matter of focus, I believe.  Note: For the sake of typing references to PSI = Pounds Per Square Inch, and psi = phsycic. Note capatilization.

Now back to what I was saying.  This is a good example despite its mildly painful nature.
It takes only 3 PSI to break the human elbow. This commonly being exerted with the hand which averages 3 to 4 inches across.  So the actual physical pressure needed is 9 to 14 PSI depending on the size of your hand.  Now if you were to do this as a psi with out touching the person and could narrow your thought down to a perfect 1 inch square you would only need to generate the 3 PSI. Or 1 1/2 PSI at a half inch with velocity at a constant.  Which we will assume that it is because you can only think so fast. (Wait for laugh.)
Now in the example that Winged_Wolf  gave with the person recieving the bruise.  You can leave a bruise with as little as 1/2 PSI which is ruoghly all that is needed to push a glass of water.  Now when the mentor got his arm in the way it was struck with roughly 1/2 PSI at almost 1 inch of surface.  The size of a quater.  Now if the student had the focus she could have used a beam that was 1/8 of an inch and ended up breaking the mentors elbow.
1/2 PSI at 1 inch
1 PSI at 1/2 inch
2 PSI at 1/4 Inch
4 PSI at 1/8 Inch




"What if I am actually just a brain in a jar?"


David Rogalski
cainam_nazier@hotmail.com

[n/a]

Ya know, It's pretty fun at first. Making beer bottles roll off the table, dragging the old sneakers across the carpet, watching your sleeping friend scratching his ear because you're tickling it from across the room.  But it took over everything, I didn't want to go to sleep, I quit my job, stayed in the house all day, I wanted to spend every waking moment trying out different ideas to see what I could do.
 
All this started when I woke up one night and there seemed to be two blue streaks shining through the bedroom window across the ceiling. I thought it was something outside the window reflecting into the room. I got up and looked out the window and it was dark, so I shut the curtains anyway. The blue things were still there and there seemed to be little arcs of lightening zipping out of each one.
I moved my hand near it and it bent to greet my hand. I touched it and felt a rush of energy go up my arm and into my chest. It didn't hurt, it felt good. So I put my other hand into the other blue beam, the same thing happened. I looked at both of my hands, there was an orange glow around them, and my fingers had little needle size lightening bolts jumping across them. Both of my hands were ice cold now, almost painful.  All of this lasted for 3 weeks, until I quit seeing the blue beams, and it never happened again...

Here's my point;
 I think to do this kind of stuff, we need to have an outside energy source. I don't think the physical body can produce enough energy on
its own.  I do believe we can be some type of capacitor, able to store energy and discharge it in a focused direction.  

I have no further comments on this post.

       NF101

[thinker]

I came across these articles recently and they seem rather interesting, but I know very little about telekeninesis as I've never been able to do it so I'd rather like to read everyone's thoughts on them. Thanks.

http://www.psipog.org/cgi-bin/partic.cgi?3

http://www.spiritonline.com/board.html
(Psychic Phenomena then Telekinesis Etc.)