Suicide and NDE

[catmeow]

I've studied NDEs quite a lot, and one thing I can't get my head round is suicide. Now according to several accounts I've seen, people who commit suicide are given a choice; either to stay or go back. If they go back, they have to deal with the problems that brought them to this point, plus presumably a physical body damaged by the suicide attempt. Not a nice prospect!

However, if they choose to stay, they can have a nice time in heaven, but at some time they MUST reincarnate and go through all the same problems which led them to their suicide, and deal with them again. Presumably, if they commit suicide again, they could end up in an endless cycle!

This strikes me as a bit unfair! What do you think? Does anyone have any sort of first hand knowledge about this? Is it just plain wrong? I have seen a few youtube NDE accounts in which the NDEer was given this exact choice. Waddya think? Opinions? Any NDE examples which contradict this?

Decision to stay or go starts at 4.28:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0g0FefaQZY

[Mini stapler]

from information I've gathered, suicide doesn't have the desired effect of alleviating the pain within... It doesn't just go away like it never happened. Someone said to me it's better to know yourself before you die... because in the living we have like a buffer, we have quite a bit of control over when, and for long we face our 'inner demons' at any one time, but as you probably know thoughts manifest a lot easier in the non-psychical... I don't see why issues would just up and vanish without being dealt with first. Maybe it's a mental thing, manifesting a scenario of a choice to fight to stay alive or give up completely, but I don't believe you can just choose to go to a heaven and the pain is gone.

but just my opinion, I could be well off the mark, & I'm interested to see what others think, I knew someone who did commit suicide, so it would be comforting if it's anywhere close to truth.

[catmeow]

Yes that makes perfect sense if your problems are simply inner demons. What about people with crippling ailments through no fault of their own? For example "locked in syndrome" where you can only blink your eyes, and have to be cared for 24x7? Why should this person be condemned to live another 30,40, 50 years like this?

I'm also thinking of PC David Rathband who was blinded by Raoul Moat, a gunman who shot him in the face. His wife couldn't cope with looking after her blind husband and left him. He took his own life in despair. Now presumably he is locked into a "soul contract" which means he has to reincarnate, live his life again, and get shot and blinded again?

Just seems really unfair?

EDIT: Mini stapler thanks for posting your opinion. It's such a dark topic I didn't think people would want to post. But I'm really interested in other opinions, partly to try to understand this myself, when I know so many people are committing suicide and are unwittingly making things worse for themselves. It upsets me.

[NoY]

Nobody can force you to reincarnate


:NoY:

[catmeow]

Nobody can force you to reincarnate


:NoY:

Can you back that up with anything?

Reincarnation might be just as automatic as dying. Trying not to reincarnate might be like King Canute trying to stop the tides?

[Barnowl]

However, if they choose to stay, they can have a nice time in heaven, but at some time they MUST reincarnate and go through all the same problems which led them to their suicide, and deal with them again. Presumably, if they commit suicide again, they could end up in an endless cycle!

This strikes me as a bit unfair! What do you think?

In a really wierd way, I get this. Don't forget, in ultimate reality, nothing is conditional, so really nothing is, 'bad'. As Eckhart Tolle would say, it is what it is...

Also, William Burlham puts it another way, 'Confronting and dissolving the energy manifestations of my own fears, limits and blocks are essential for my spiritual growth. There are no negative experiences, only energy manifestations I don't currently comprehend.'

This sounds sooo harsh, but it's true. (I've been manically depressed in years gone by...not pretty)

You simply have to learn to use focus intention, plus being in the present moment, to change your hologram

otherwise, you do not grow...(forgive me if this is a harsh opinion)

Funny thing was, when I finally, 'gave in' to my soul, and began really focusing hard, I felt strangely better...

But I agree, to the spiritual illiterate, it is harsh...very harsh.

[NoY]

Can you back that up with anything?

Can you?

:NoY:

[catmeow]

Thanks Barnowl.

But going back to the blind PC, he lost his eyesight, was in constant pain, needed constant care, lost his wife, ruined his life, and yes these things might have been part of a soul contract. But when he took his own life, he didn't realise he was breaking his soul contract, and condemning himself to relive the whole thing....?

I can understand the logic to a certain extent, but surely there is discretion? For instance in heaven, surely you can be judged kindly as in "yes you agreed to all of these awful experiences, but in the end it was too much and you couldn't cope. But you still learnt from your life experience. Next time we'll try something different."

[Kirkland]

I can't claim to of had a NDE from a suicide attempt but I have tried to kill myself twice in the past.  I think you have two types of suicide attempts those who have terrible aliments and don't wish to go through life living with it and then you have those who have suffered through bullying or non life threatening aliments which impact there lives a really negative way.

I was in the second I was born in a body I disliked with non threatening aliments like severe Pectus excavatum and I was bullied throughout my life at school which led to me withdrawing from society developing into social anxiety, general anxiety and depression. It did end up two years ago into two suicide attempts which fortunately were unsuccessful (though I didn't think so at the time).

Am I happy that I wasn't successful? Yes I am, I'm still not happy about my life but on my last attempt I asked the person I was staying with to call the ambulance. This to me showed that there was a part of me that wanted to live and perhaps that's what suicidal NDE's are about it's about offering a chance to those who have any doubt a chance to choose to live, choose to make the most of what they were given.

It's harder being someone who got dealt bad cards the trick is to play them as good as you can instead of giving up. After my attempts I finally agreed to go see a councilor and though I still not feeling great I do realize that things can change and things can get better.

So if someone was in the same situation as me then I would say that it is right that they reincarnate and experience it again. It may be hard but getting through the worst of times but it's all so great when you know that you managed to survive the worst of times.

As for the 'locked in syndrome' and anything as bad as that I don't think that's right if someone has to go through life not being able to experience any quality of life. It might just be a thing that everyone has to get through however tough and harsh it looks.

[Barnowl]

Yeah...I sent the post, without reading other responses...I felt I was being a little insensitive (wasn't mean't to be...)

I agree, physical illness is a real tricky issue...not really sure how to respond to be honest. But it's definately something spiritual. The question, is what. What is the souls agenda? What is the soul trying to experince?

The one guy that comes to mind, (not a great example, but worth noting) is Ken Keyes Jr

The guy, after being paralyzed, became very spiritual, and wrote many great books, inspiring many people

But, not everybody can be like him

having said that, Abraham does say, 'All death is a suicide'

Does make me wonder...

[catmeow]

Can you?

:NoY:

I'm not asking you for proof, just some sort of sincere testimony, anecdote etc that we don't need to re incarnate.

The reason I ask is because I have encountered a number of NDE accounts, mainly on youtube, which looked sincere, where the NDEer was given this informtion, ie that they would have to reincarnate ie "no choice". Very little or nothing to the contrary. I posted one link in the OP.

Have you encountered any evidence of the contrary? I would be interested if you have.

[NoY]

What if there contract was to kill themself ?

:NoY:

[catmeow]

What if there contract was to kill themself ?

:NoY:

I had exactly the same question. In that case it would be OK for them to kill themselves, I assume, because it was what they had agreed before incarnating.

[catmeow]

So if someone was in the same situation as me then I would say that it is right that they reincarnate and experience it again. It may be hard but getting through the worst of times but it's all so great when you know that you managed to survive the worst of times

Coming from you, that is very heart warming. It adds some sense to what seems like non-sense. Thanks so much for sharing.

[Mini stapler]

I think in this scenario the physical manifestation of a 'bad' experience is only important in the sense that it can manifest itself, the physical trauma, as a non-physical trauma, within. And my believe that these trauma’s within have to be dealt with during or after death, says to me they do not need to return and go through it again. From my perspective they wouldn't need to repeat if the physical trauma has already manifested within as a non physical trauma to be experienced and dealt with/learned from before or after physical death.

And too add to that, I think the same applies with the more positive aspects, there is a lot to be said for learning from the hardships in life, but I think equally as much from the luxuries.

[Xanth]

I'm not asking you for proof, just some sort of sincere testimony, anecdote etc that we don't need to re incarnate.

The reason I ask is because I have encountered a number of NDE accounts, mainly on youtube, which looked sincere, where the NDEer was given this informtion, ie that they would have to reincarnate ie "no choice". Very little or nothing to the contrary. I posted one link in the OP.

Have you encountered any evidence of the contrary? I would be interested if you have.

This physical reality, and other realities like it... seem to be the fastest and best way for a consciousness to learn to become Love.

You *could* commit suicide... but yeah, if you intend to continue growing, you're probably gonna want to eventually reincarnate to do it over again anyway.  LoL
I just don't think the "need" is there... more the "desire".

[catmeow]

And too add to that, I think the same applies with the more positive aspects, there is a lot to be said for learning from the hardships in life, but I think equally as much from the luxuries.

My take is that we have more to learn from hardship than luxury. When I look at the Paris Hiltons of this world who live a life of constant partying and beach holidays, I think, "What is she learning?".

12 years ago I damaged my knees and was (still am) in constant pain. Had to dump the manual (car) and bought an automatic. I used to get very impatient with people driving steadily, and blocking my way. But suddenly I was in pain driving. Suddenly I realised why elderly people drive slowly; they have stiff necks and joints, they can't look left and right so quickly, they have to drive slowly and steadily. So suddenly I became totally sympathetic. My driving style changed. No amount of reading or talking could have taught me this. I had to experience it and then I got it instantly.

So hardship is a great thing. An easy life teaches us nothing.  But hardship must be in moderation. For people in crippling pain, with no hope of recovery, people paralyzed and so on, I can understand why that would be too much to bear. I would like to feel that we have a loving God, who would understand, if they just gave up on life. I would hope they would not be condemned to relive tortured lives. So I question what I am seeing in these yt videos. Any opinions gratefully welcomed....4

[Szaxx]

Hi,
If I gave a list of foods I could safely eat with no problems it would be thousands of times smaller than the ones I want to eat. Still, Ill bite on chances occasionally, other times it bites back.

[Xanth]

My take is that we have more to learn from hardship than luxury. When I look at the Paris Hiltons of this world who live a life of constant partying and beach holidays, I think, "What is she learning?".

12 years ago I damaged my knees and was (still am) in constant pain. Had to dump the manual (car) and bought an automatic. I used to get very impatient with people driving steadily, and blocking my way. But suddenly I was in pain driving. Suddenly I realised why elderly people drive slowly; they have stiff necks and joints, they can't look left and right so quickly, they have to drive slowly and steadily. So suddenly I became totally sympathetic. My driving style changed. No amount of reading or talking could have taught me this. I had to experience it and then I got it instantly.

So hardship is a great thing. An easy life teaches us nothing.  But hardship must be in moderation. For people in crippling pain, with no hope of recovery, people paralyzed and so on, I can understand why that would be too much to bear. I would like to feel that we have a loving God, who would understand, if they just gave up on life. I would hope they would not be condemned to relive tortured lives. So I question what I am seeing in these yt videos. Any opinions gratefully welcomed....4

There are a lot of lessons which, after being told time and time again... don't actually sink in until we learn them for ourselves.
I'm particularly one of those kinds of people.  LOL

[majour ka]

But you have just pointed out something that we all have to go through if we are going to grow, wether our trip to the next life comes prematurely or not, if we are to believe that we reincarnate to work through Karma and other problems we have to go through it again and maybe many times over....thats the cycle of life.

Sounds like what your suggesting is that people should not have to suffer..? But suffering in its self is an essential part of awakening, with out it, what reason would there be to enlighten ones self in the beautiful reality of ones true nature.

While I KNOW that the spirit world is a wonderful reality (ive been there) I am also certain it is an existence that is subject to an element of cause and affect. We still get to work on ourselves in the spirit and im also certain that to a some degree the spirit world we experience is that which we create for ourselves while in this life.

[Mini stapler]

I totally get why you look at in that way, and I can understand it.

People go through out there entire lives not learning there lessons, we can't always see the problems others face either but it doesn't mean they are not there. I don't think there is such a thing as an easy life, sure they don't worry about money, but money & fame bring there own negative aspects that the every day person never has to face. We all have different struggles, some more different than offers, no amount of money will change that.

We see it all the time with celebs who don't know how to use their advantages in a positive way & instead destroy themselves over national t.v for millions of viewers to watch as entertainment, the charlie sheen type characters. And less extreme is the egotistical lifestyles a lot of them lead, things from without don't bring happiness, they soon need something new, or more attention or more money always more, and the circle continues until they learn.

Only recently on the news were a VERY wealthy couple, both addicted to drugs, the wife O.D & died and the husband wrapped her up in the bedroom and left her there for 2 months, while still living in the house... Do they sound like happy people with easy lives, something must of happened for them become addicts in the first place, after all drugs is about escaping from our reality, if it's so easy for them why would they want to...

I actually feel glad I'm not famous and I do feel for them, being judged by every other person round the world for what they do, what they wear, how they look. Being attacked by newspapers so they can make some money, never knowing the next time they will be publicly humiliated, being prostituted by corporations to turn a profit. having all manner of vultures flock around them because of their money, never knowing who their friends are, apply that to lovers also. having to constantly check what they say & do, being followed everywhere by journalists... I wouldn't want to live that way.

Just my opinion though.

[Lionheart]

There are a lot of lessons which, after being told time and time again... don't actually sink in until we learn them for ourselves.
I'm particularly one of those kinds of people.  LOL

Being "enlightened" or "awoken" is what helps us to see those subtle hints earlier before they become a serious problem. We become more attuned with that little voice inside, but even more than that, we learn not to ignore it. 

[Xanth]

But you have just pointed out something that we all have to go through if we are going to grow, wether our trip to the next life comes prematurely or not, if we are to believe that we reincarnate to work through Karma and other problems we have to go through it again and maybe many times over....thats the cycle of life.

Sounds like what your suggesting is that people should not have to suffer..? But suffering in its self is an essential part of awakening, with out it, what reason would there be to enlighten ones self in the beautiful reality of ones true nature.

While I KNOW that the spirit world is a wonderful reality (ive been there) I am also certain it is an existence that is subject to an element of cause and affect. We still get to work on ourselves in the spirit and im also certain that to a some degree the spirit world we experience is that which we create for ourselves while in this life.

Well, I don't believe for a second that suffering is "required" to learn, however, suffering is also not the big bad evil thing that most people believe it to be.
If you look at everything this reality has to offer, there isn't anything that is "bad"... there are only two kinds of experiences:  Those that increase your spirituality and those that decrease it. 

Everything is "only" an experience.  Any kind of moral/ethical attribute we give it is only that... something WE attribute it.  It's not fundamental.

[Eyyoshi]

As a guy who aborted his suicide, at the last second, this topic is interesting. I don't really believe in reincarnation, but I don't hate it or bash it.

I'd like to know why we have to "reincarnate" should we kill ourselves if, "we didn't take out the trash the next day". When you incarnate, you forget everything of who you were! Right? Like an erased USB or memory card. What's that moral doing mean anymore? You've forgotten who you were and probably aren't going to be the same. Unless it's just the roll of the dice (free will), until you choose right. But this process of understanding ourselves seems unnecessary and lengthy.

I thought that our existence was meant to keep on going, and learning, suicide was the choice of who you were at that point of existence. 

[NoY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpGdLsG87qo

:NoY: