Has projection evolved or devolved?

[todd421757]

Has projection evolved or devolved?

I read through around 340 people's projection cases analyzed by Robert Crookhall from the early 1900's. They contain descriptions that seem to be more like an energetic projection.

Many (but not all) of the descriptions of projections nowadays are different and seem to be a visual projection.

Did the invention of television, video games, computer screens create an over reliance of the visual sense?   

[Szaxx]

Hi,
The senses of the hunter gatherer are almost negligible in todays society. This will have an effect.
Take the examples from TV.
Factual programs have been replaced by money spinning drool (personal opinion, no offense intended). Soaps and fashion shows are a prime example. The information format has changed to high speed wide rangeing basics. The in depth series seems to have diminished to almost obscurity. The Mars landing normally gets days of reportsand headline news. Back in the late 60's all night TV was expected. Come back the days of Niel Armstrong et al. It gets on the news after some inappropriate action by a fashion icon today.
The world is changing so will all asunder.
Technology, well thats a favorite, used correctly its a godsend. It also changes everything and total reliance may have dire consequences...
Vision is more the primary sense and will be prominent over all others. This could be the reason for the change.
Thoughts.

[todd421757]

Thank you Szaxx for the reply.

[Greytraveller]

Hallo Todd
You asked,

Has projection evolved or devolved?

Great question. I too have read several of Robert Crookall's books. These are unique in that he was not promoting a specific 'how to' get out of the body method but rather recorded and analyzed hundreds of OBEs and NDEs (mostly written down between the late 1800s and 1960).
Most of those OBEs were of the 'classical' variety where the person got out of his or her physical body (usually spontaneously, not deliberately), floated about inside their bedroom, saw their own physical body (and often the physical body of their spouse or another family member) and then sometimes 'travelled' to another physical world location and viewed the events happening there.
Today it seems that there are many more types of OBEs. This includes Phasing and mental projections. Also many more OBEs are deliberately induced by a specific method (although many first time OBEers do have spontaneous projections).
Also more and more OBE reports include visits to far flung astral realms that have no physical world counterpart. (I have been to a few of those realms myself BTW.)
So, all in all, it would seem that, yes, many modern OBEs differ substantially from those that occurred fifty years ago. Is this evolution or devolution?? Quite hard to say as one can only rely on the accounts of the people who experienced the OBEs. If pressed to answer the evolution or devolution question I would vote (cautiously) on the side of evolution. The one thing that does seem certain is that OBEs Are changing over time.

Regards 
Grey

[todd421757]

Thank you Grey for the response.

[Lionheart]

Also more and more OBE reports include visits to far flung astral realms that have no physical world counterpart. (I have been to a few of those realms myself BTW.)

Could it be that this is because the "far flung Astral realms" are more exciting than the RTZ? The way that i learned projection was from a video on youtube, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wAj2espMjeA), that showed a guy sitting in front of a candle just starting at it. He said to stare at the tip of the flame for as long as you can and really focus. Then he said to close your eyes and replay the vision. I did and was met with vibrations, sounds like a helicopter over my head, then I saw my non physical hand start to move, legs, etc. I then got up and went to the door, flew down my driveway, saw my home from the first time from the air (which by the way was really cool). The next times i had a chance to project it was the same thing. After awhile it just got boring. Then I started to change my intent to a mystical Island setting, with beautiful white sands, a beach home and of course a Pyramid had to be there, lol. But when I did this, something would happen, I could jumpstart a visual and then have the entire scene taken over by something else. When I was in the RTZ, I knew where I was going, what I was seeing. When I started Phasing I noticed that I didn't have the control. I could start the story, but didn't know what was going to happen next. It was the mystery and intrigue of this that kept bringing me back for more. After you experience this, it's hard to go back to RTZ projections. This is my own personal view.

[Bedeekin]

It's strange how the more experienced of us seem to have evolved from RTZ projections to the NPR. I suppose it is the natural state for our consciousness to exist once it focuses away from the physical.

[todd421757]

Thanks for the replies Lionheart and Bedeekin.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Thinking on this, I remember all mt first outings were in the RTZ. It took 4 years before my first encounter with an astral trip. The difference is amazing.
Since then another 5 years passed and vivid clairvoyant dreams started. Later various outings to bodyless light environments so full of PUL and a oneness that words fsil to describe.
30 years ago all the above. A great learning followed with countless locations and tasks to perform.
Id say evolution through experience is actually the reality.
Only last year I joined this site to learn about focus levels etc and still these dont quite fit 100% with some experiences.
Interesting topic.

[Xanth]

Remember,  the experience itself isn't IT.

Projection experiences haven't evolved or de-evolved.  PEOPLE have simply changed over the years.  We have changed in HOW we experience and WHY we experience.

[todd421757]

Thanks Xanth for the reply.

[Lionheart]

Only last year I joined this site to learn about focus levels etc and still these don't quite fit 100% with some experiences.
Interesting topic.

Szaxx I agree with you. I still haven't been able to fit my experiences into the "focus levels" that so many people talk about here. This is the reason I decided to give up labels for now and just experience it, instead of trying to dissect it and I have found this "lackadaisical" approach has worked excellent for me.
Todd, this is an interesting Topic. This gets into the heart of the matter!  

[Xanth]

Focus levels are kind of like fitting a square peg into a round hole.

Focus levels are the round hole... they're someone else's idea/concept/map of the non-physical.
Your experiences are the square peg... sure, you can jam that square peg and MAKE IT FIT...

Suffice to say... don't bother trying to make your experiences fit someone else's reality.  Well, I mean you *CAN*, and it might be helpful at the very start... but eventually, you're gonna want to find your round peg to put in that round hole. 

[personalreality]

There are two realms.  Physical and non-physical.

Society and its expectations have changed.  In the recent past (Early 1900's), it was occult groups doing the projecting.  These people took it as a serious spiritual practice that was the other side of their physical lives. 

Today, projection comes more out of New Age movements, and sorry to say it, fads.  I don't think people take it quite as seriously as they once did.  Modern society is based in technology, not imagination.  I believe that has effected what people expect to perceive.

Projection is meant to be a means of accessing the inner realities, a way to commune with one's own self at the deepest level (that of the source).  I believe that understanding has been lost on modern humans.

[LightBeam]

People's imagination have evolved, although some may say it's the technology and TV. And that has contributed of course, but again those stories and technological advancement was created by imagination in the first place. It is the corse of our evolution in this probable reality of ours. We can't even begin to comprehend how magnificent the entire universe is and how many endless worlds and dimensions exist with uniqueness and diversity. We should be encouraged to travel far, visit and even create. This power of ours must be realized. Imagination does not mean illusion. Who is to say what is real and what is not. We don't even know if our world isn't just a virtual reality game of some sort. The more senses we use, the broader parameter we observe and experience. As I mentioned in another post, the braver we are, the more situations we encounter where we have to solve problems and work on ourselves, otherwise we will be stuck in the lower frequency RTZ, where not much can be learned.

[Xanth]

There are two realms.  Physical and non-physical.

What I've come to realize is that there is only "one" realm.

What we call the physical is nothing but a mere point of view in relation to what we call the non-physical.

I'm starting to see how interconnected "here" and "there" really are.  They're two sides of the same coin?  Sort to speak.

They're so interconnected that sometimes it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins.

[Lionheart]

.Society and its expectations have changed.  In the recent past (Early 1900's), it was occult groups doing the projecting.  These people took it as a serious spiritual practice that was the other side of their physical lives.  

This is so true PR and can be witnessed here everyday. I have found that we have a number of new people that come here and expect "miracles" right away. This new generation seems to me to be a "now" generation. If it doesn't happen right away, move on to the next thing that you are curious of. We get questions everyday here that have been answered again and again. We have Stickies that are here to aid people, that have been written by people that are serious about Astral Travel, so serious they have are making it an "artform", but still it takes too much time for someone to read a post or reply. I don't understand that at all. When I first got into sales years ago, I found the top person in the company and hung on their coat tails. I went out to eat with them, drink with them, I wanted to learn everything I could possibly could. I would basically ask them if they could be my "mentor" of sorts. When I first came to this website, I found the people that were good at Astral Projection and started sending them PM's asking for tips. I went back in their History and read every post they had written here. I went to every link that they supplied.  I don't see this anymore, I don't see the deep will and commitment and this is definitely what is needed to learn and understand what it is we are being taught. I have personally done more research on this topic in the last year and half then I have ever done on anything in my life and still I am just at the beginning. This is an artform and I don't think in one's entire lifetime that they could ever master it to a "t'. Just when you think you are getting the hang of it, a new level approaches and shows you that you basically know nothing. This is a school that you never really graduate from, you just keep getting upgraded.

[Volgerle]

This thread reminded me of what 'vintage' projector Sylvan Muldoon wrote about it. He was an experienced RTZ-only projector, so he might fit the hypothesis. However, here is what he says and I think that it clearly contradicts the proposition that it wasn't widely done by people within the 'occult' or 'medium' scene back then:

Read downwards from "As far as higher astral conditions are concerned"

http://books.google.de/books?id=Z3hRU7_mCVEC&pg=PA179&hl=de&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=snippet&q=%22So%20far%20as%20higher%20astral%20conditions%20are%20concerned%22&f=false

So, in a nutshell, Muldoon mentions occultists or mediums who project to the "higher planes" all the time and he was even told that he might not be 'evolved' enough because he couldn't do it (as he admits). So this view would back up the argument of 'evolution' when we start to reach higher planes too. (I myself can confirm what others write here: I started to have RTZ projections and after a few of them never anymore).

Regarding older literature, please remember all the Theosophical or other occult books by Leadbetter, Blavatsky, Besant and others. They drew maps of astral / mental planes and bodies. How would / why should they have done it if they had't been "there" experiencing it for themselves. It is true that they derived a lot of their 'cosmology' from Buddhist or Hindu teachings already, but they were avid experiencers and themselves, like many secret societies then.

[Xanth]

This thread reminded me of what 'vintage' projector Sylvan Muldoon wrote about it. He was an experienced RTZ-only projector, so he might fit the hypothesis. However, here is what he says and I think that it clearly contradicts the proposition that it wasn't widely done by people within the 'occult' or 'medium' scene back then:

Read downwards from "As far as higher astral conditions are concerned"

http://books.google.de/books?id=Z3hRU7_mCVEC&pg=PA179&hl=de&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=4#v=snippet&q=%22So%20far%20as%20higher%20astral%20conditions%20are%20concerned%22&f=false

So, in a nutshell, Muldoon mentions occultists or mediums who project to the "higher planes" all the time and he was even told that he might not be 'evolved' enough because he couldn't do it (as he admits). So this view would back up the argument of 'evolution' when we start to reach higher planes too. (I myself can confirm what others write here: I started to have RTZ projections and after a few of them never anymore).

Regarding older literature, please remember all the Theosophical or other occult books by Leadbetter, Blavatsky, Besant and others. They drew maps of astral / mental planes and bodies. How would / why should they have done it if they had't been "there" experiencing it for themselves. It is true that they derived a lot of their 'cosmology' from Buddhist or Hindu teachings already, but they were avid experiencers and themselves, like many secret societies then.

I don't believe that for a second.

Granted, I haven't read any of his books yet... but it seems to me that *EVERYONE* has projections not in the RTZ.  The difference with Muldoon (and let's be honest, with most people who claim to have nothing but RTZ projections) is that he didn't recognize them as such, so he probably greatly ignored those projections.  I see this happening on a massive scale from new people who come here to the Astral Pulse.  People completely ignoring valid experiences because they don't line up to someone else's expectations or what someone else has told them it "should" be like.

In this case, Muldoon was Muldoon's worst enemy... and it shows that we need to drop two things in order to fully free ourselves to experience:  BELIEF and LABELS.
Drop those two things and just EXPERIENCE, and you'll open yourself up to everything reality has to offer.

[todd421757]

Thank for the replies Personalreality, Lightbeam, Volgerle.

[personalreality]

What I've come to realize is that there is only "one" realm.

What we call the physical is nothing but a mere point of view in relation to what we call the non-physical.

I'm starting to see how interconnected "here" and "there" really are.  They're two sides of the same coin?  Sort to speak.

They're so interconnected that sometimes it's hard to tell where one ends and the other begins.

Oh I don't disagree at all.  It's just easier to explain it this way.  It's just like Yin and Yang are a whole, which is why in their most common symbol there is a little yin in the yang and a little yang in the yin.  They are inseparable.

In the aboriginal dreamtime paradigm.  the dreamtime provides the form for the physical and the physical provides the dreamtime with purpose. 

The same for Jung's archetypes.  They aren't inert concepts, they are the basis of our reality and we in turn function through them.

Even better, Earth is one planet with a night and a day.  It isn't a different planet at night or during the day, it's just a different perspective.

[Stookie_]

Once you see (not theorize) that "all is one", the separations make so much more sense. I've said it before, I'll say it again, there's a microcosm and a macrocosm and both are true.

Regarding whether projection has evolved or devolved, I don't think either... or a bit of both. I suppose it reflects society - in certain ways we've advanced a lot, in other ways we've become much more materialistic and egotistical. But if you're living right, you shouldn't have to worry about that.

[todd421757]

Thank you Stookie for the reply.