OBE's while wide awake with mind split

[todd421757]

Catmeow wrote this in another thread and I find it to be a goal of mine.

"People described doing some normal activity, such as walking round a supermarket, talking to a friend, driving a car etc, and then suddenly found themselves "out of the body", watching their physical body continue performing its task with no apparent difficulty. No sleep paralysis, no physical relaxation, no loss of physical consciousness (the mind splits into "physical" and "out of body" consciousnesses which continue to function independently). The "out of body" consciousness is sometimes expanded, and "more real" than physical consciousness. Sometimes very much expanded. Vision is sometimes spherical, being able to see in all directions at once. Physical observations tend to be accurate (no or minimal reality fluctuations). The physical body can invariably be seen."

I was wondering if there is a method that could be used to initiate an OBE in the above fashion. If anyone has any tips or theories on how this could be done, then let me know. I believe this type of OBE would be even more real than an etheric projection, since there would be no loss of energy during the separation process.

I am not here to start a debate with this topic. I just would like to experience an OBE with this specific type of mind split. I would also be interested in any books that talk about this. Thanks.

[Bedeekin]

This wouldn't be the most amazing trick to pull off.

For a start I have had a few involuntary OOBEs... or sometimes called Autoscopy... and I always returned to normal consciousness rather bemused.

For a start I was watching myself continuing being 'me' without 'me' actually being 'me'.. and doing an amazing job.

It's happened 3 times. Each time I was under stress...

It's probably due to my habit of spending a majority of my time focused in the nonphysical... and maybe my reaction to stress is to instigate an OOBE... like a NDE.

I don't know how to reproduce it, because by its very nature it is sporadic.

It's pretty difficult not to raise some sort of debate.

[AstralCody]

I have a buddy I talk to on skype who said he used to have OBE's in school all the time. He would be sitting in class and would go into an OBE.

I remember when I was in school I would daydream a lot. It was extremely hard to focus, and sometimes I would get up and have a ringing noise similar to when I am about to have an OBE and I wouldn't be able to see for about 4 seconds and it would go away. I wasn't sure what this was.

That was a very long time ago and hasn't happened since. I cannot recall any experiences I have had like that, but it indeed would be amazing!

[Bedeekin]

What is interesting is that during these experiences the 'me' I was watching.. .indeed who everybody else was watching... was perfectly normal.

I was walking over a bridge whilst walking the dog the last time it happened. I watched myself... walking alongside my better half Kathryn, engaged in conversation.

The same thing (on a slightly different note) happened years goo when we both decided to partake in the very powerful entheogen Salvia Divinorum. We recorded ourselves...  What I experienced and what was on camera are two totally different things.

[todd421757]

What is interesting is that during these experiences the 'me' I was watching.. .indeed who everybody else was watching... was perfectly normal.

Very awesome posts Bedeekin. This is what is so amazing about this type of experience.

[desert-rat]

DickSutphen said he would sometimes go out body while running after a few miles .   He also said one of his old g.f. would go out of body after taking an asprain .  desert rat   

[Stookie_]

It's pretty normal for me to have dual consciousness during an AP - I often feel my body in the background and can even move around. It's pretty natural for me, though was never a goal. I think it has to do with how I learned to meditate, which were exercises to develop clairvoyance by Rudolf Steiner, but I can't be sure.

[AstralCody]

On a side note... I have had an OBE where I was breathing with my physical body but was walking around in my astral. I did have dual awareness then. It's interesting though my body wouldn't let me breathe through my nose. I could only breathe through my mouth.

[catmeow]

One of the first books I read about OBEs was Celia Green's "Out of the Body Experiences":

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Experiences-Proceedings-Institute-Psychophysical-Research/dp/0900076011/

It is a scientific study of about 400 OBE cases. According to Celia Green's study, of those people who had more than 1 OBE, their OBEs occurred whilst they were:

Lying (66.4%)
Sitting (20.2%)
Standing still (3.4%)
Walking (6.7%)
Indeterminate (3.3%)

So 10% of regular OBERs had their OBEs while standing or walking. The physical body continued its normal, sometimes complex activity, with no apparent difficulty. There would appear to be a "mind split", with the physical and astral consciousnesses continuing independently.

I know of no technique to achieve this deliberately. It seems to be a spontaneous thing, sometimes triggered by stress. Those who experience this seem to be predisposed to it. If anyone can volunteer a technique, I would be very interested! Bedeekin, the experiences you describe are very typical of those in Celia Green's book. You seem to be a typical spontaneous OBEr (very jealous!)

I highly recommend Celia Green's book, it gives very good analysis of the OBE.

Here is a summary of Celia Green's findings:

http://www.kktanhp.com/OBE_.htm
& scroll down to "Survey by Celia Green on OBE" in Purple

(thanks CFTraveler for the link)

Here is a quote from the article:

OBEs are probably the most dramatic in appearance of the metachoric exper-iences, and they happen in a very wide variety of circumstances. There is a definite group which happens in situations which you might expect to be fairly high in arous-al, but they would not normally be excessively stressful, though you would expect a person to be adrenalised. Examples are a person giving a lecture, a dentist extracting a tooth, a person taking a driving test or getting married. We have cases of people watching themselves from the outside in all of these circumstances and several sim-ilar ones

Another good resource is www.oberf.org.

Here are a few examples of spontaneous OBEs which occurred whilst the physical body was fully active. In many cases the physical body continued with its activity, talking, driving, walking, doing intricate tasks etc, whilst the OBEr was floating up above watching:

Nurse attending to patient has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/marcia_t_sobe.htm
Girl walking round shop has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/bonnie_c_sobe.htm
Girl working on wood carving has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/dixieann_t_sobe.htm
Man talking to personnel dept has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/iran_sobe.htm
Truck driver has OBE            http://www.oberf.org/dwight_m_sobe.htm
Woman driving car has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/nora_j_sobe.htm
Woman walking down 5th Ave has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/karen_k_sobe.htm
Woman walking/talking with friend in park has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/samantha_k_sobe.htm
Screaming kicking girl has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/luise_sobe.htm
Screaming infant has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/kevin_r_sobe.htm
Man walking/talking with cousin has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/brandon_sobe_2320.htm
Woman standing/talking with her mother has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/annie_b_sobe.htm
Girl sitting on swing has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/lisa_c_sobe.htm
Schoolgirl walking home has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kimberly_k_sobe.htm
Woman fighting off carjacker has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/amy_i_sobe.htm
Woman smoking/driving has OBE(s)      http://www.oberf.org/karen_d_sobe.htm
Man walking to beach has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/wayne_sobe.htm
Woman being screamed at has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kim_sobe.htm
Man sitting on porch with friend has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/david_s_sobe.htm
Person attending concert has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/onowa_v_sobe.htm
Hospital patient walking down corridor has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/william_b_sobe.htm
Man receiving bad news has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/shelly_k_sobe.htm
Woman standing at father's funeral has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jen_c_sobe.htm
Woman using ladies room has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kathryn_w's_sobe.htm
Man sitting in bar has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/gary_m's_sobe.htm

And the following are just too intriguing to omit;  They include a woman who physically chased her own astral body, an astral body which chased its physical body, a spontaneous dual OBE shared by two people whilst standing and talking, a precognitive OBE, an OBEr who talked to her physical friend teleptahically, and finally an OBEr who split into two "astral consciousnesses":

Woman physically chases her Astral Body!      http://www.oberf.org/dawn_k_sobe.htm
Girl chases her physical body whilst OBE       http://www.oberf.org/jewel_sobe.htm
Two talking women have a shared simultaneous OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jean_j_sobe.htm
Girl standing in baseball field has precognitive OBE    http://www.oberf.org/carolyn_t_sobe.htm
Woman talks telepathically to her friend whilst OBE    http://www.oberf.org/debi_s_sobe.htm
Person splits into two "selves" which whilst OBE   http://www.oberf.org/lourens_m_sobe.htm

Taken from this thread:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/the_incredible_multiple_i-t34599.0.html

[catmeow]

Oh, and Celia Green's study also gave percentages for those who experienced 360 degree vision, had expanded consciousness, were aware of an astral body, were just point consciousnesses, how many of the five normal senses were operational etc etc. It is a mini tour de force, easily one of the best studies around.

[catmeow]

I am not here to start a debate with this topic. I just would like to experience an OBE with this specific type of mind split. I would also be interested in any books that talk about this. Thanks.

I absolutely agree, I just wish to present facts. Books like Celia Green's are excellent because they present evidence based analyses of the subject. This is in contrast to authors such as Buhlman, Bruce, Moen, Peterson, Monroe etc who present highly personal individual and quite possibly atypical accounts. Why read one person's account when you can quickly read 400 accounts, get the bigger picture and learn about aspects which you have never previously heard of?

[todd421757]

Thanks Catmeow for the links. This is very good information.

I am amazed at how the person can keep functioning normally when part of their consciousness is out of body.

[Bedeekin]

It always is todd... consciousness isn't in the body to begin with. Your experience of existence it's whatever your perception is focused on.. what channel you're tuned in to < using that analogy very loosely.

[piyal_14]

Though it could be triggered by stress mostly, I think it would be great to be able to experience something like that!
Sometimes when i'm out jogging, i can feel the sensation of being a little OOB...but i don't know how this sensation could be possibly brought about while doing something not-so-stressful...

[catmeow]

It always is todd... consciousness isn't in the body to begin with. Your experience of existence it's whatever your perception is focused on.. what channel you're tuned in to < using that analogy very loosely.

Well Bedeekin, this is true only if you subscribe to the focus model. It's quite possible that there is a consciousness dedicated to the physical body, and other consciousnesses dedicated to each of the non physical planes of existence.  It's quite possible that there is a "physical consciousness" which dies with the physical body. I'm not a big fan of the focus model. It has difficulties coping with the mind split.

[todd421757]

It's quite possible that there is a consciousness dedicated to the physical body, and other consciousnesses dedicated to each of the non physical planes of existence.  It's quite possible that there is a "physical consciousness" which dies with the physical body.

This is very interesting.

[Szaxx]

Hi,
Also in respect of the above. It may simply be that the conciousness is the only part of us that belongs to the universal oneness. This would explain the relative ease that we transcend through the varied realms and retain our personality. There is subtle differences to this personality given the respective NP environment. Putting that aside there is a questionable doubt as to the conciousness being composed of indifferences. The ONE thing we have as a commonality is that of memory disfunction between these varied NPR'S and physical wakefulness. The interface may not be capable of transferring all, or are the memories themselves actually stored in our wider self. Think on why we have so little if any knowledge of previous existance, assuming it part of our transcendent evolution. We are more than one...
Thoughts?

[Bedeekin]

Well Bedeekin, this is true only if you subscribe to the focus model. It's quite possible that there is a consciousness dedicated to the physical body, and other consciousnesses dedicated to each of the non physical planes of existence.  It's quite possible that there is a "physical consciousness" which dies with the physical body. I'm not a big fan of the focus model. It has difficulties coping with the mind split.

I dont subscribe to any model other than the likely candidate. I don't follow the focus model and really don't have any in-depth knowledge of it. I've thought this way for a long time... as the experience has grown with me... Campbell helped give a meaning to it. So it's Campbell that I would say is on the right track. It just works.

So I subscribe to a digital consciousness not a focus model thingy.

You don't really need to have troubles with mind split when it comes to the idea that consciousness isn't local. A computer can run many programmes at once... and you can keep track of a few when being the one at the keyboard. We are good at this... multitasking... the brain is the only thing stopping us from doing it at an über level.

[Stookie_]

I've always looked at multi-consciousness states as "stretching" awareness. It's no longer concentrated to one area of focus, but gets spread out like butter across multiple areas of consciousness. This is what tends to happen when people take hallucinogens. They stay physical but have "overlay" experiences into other areas of consciousness that create the hallucinations.

[todd421757]

After reading the links provided by Catmeow to other's mind split experiences, I am wondering are both sets of consciousness both experiencing physical reality? Or is one set in physical reality and one set is in the real time zone? The reason I ask this is because there are many times no reality fluctuations in their experiences.

[catmeow]

I always find these discussions about multiple-consciousness difficult because people misunderstand the meaning of the word "awareness". It is confused with "consciousness". Well here we go...

awareness = perception (sensing)
consciousness = cognition (thinking)

A household vacuum bot has awareness of its surroundings, because it has sensors, but it is not conscious. It perceives but it does not think. I believe that many times people use the term "awareness" when they really should use the term "consciousness", and vice-versa.  Awareness does not imply cognition. It implies perception (sensing) only. Microbes perceive. Microbes are aware, but I doubt that they cognize.

The mind split involves multiple copies of consciousness, not multiple areas of awareness.

I am also troubled by the word "focus"!

focus =  location

Focus is not another word for consciousness. It is similar to awareness, but awarness implies only perceiving, whereas focus implies perceiving and also the ability to interact with the environment being perceived.

I'm not being picky, these discussions always dissolve into a series of statements by people, in which we all end up disagreeing! But since we never agree on our terminolgy, we all completely misunderstand each other! And I mean COMPLETELY...!

Well anyway, this is how I intend to use these terms (consciousness, awareness and focus)....!

[catmeow]

After reading the links provided by Catmeow to other's mind split experiences, I am wondering are both sets of consciousness both experiencing physical reality? Or is one set in physical reality and one set is in the real time zone? The reason I ask this is because there are many times no reality fluctuations in their experiences.

It is true that spontaneous OBEs of the mind-split variety do tend to have far fewer reality fluctuations. I'm not sure why. They are a bit like NDEs, which also have far fewer reality fluctuations.

[catmeow]

I've always looked at multi-consciousness states as "stretching" awareness. It's no longer concentrated to one area of focus, but gets spread out like butter across multiple areas of consciousness. This is what tends to happen when people take hallucinogens. They stay physical but have "overlay" experiences into other areas of consciousness that create the hallucinations.

Stookie, what do you mean by "awareness" and "focus" in this? Thanks!

[piyal_14]

Hi catmeow! Thanks a lot for the links! They are all very interesting!
I can say that i can somewhat relate my experience with your link about Lourens M Sobe, the one in which he split into two "selves"!
It has happened twice, both at dawn! Both these times, after having my OBE, my astral self had communicated with my other self (which looked more like my real self), even when i was aware that my physical body was fast asleep on the bed! 

Though there is no explanation for these incidents, i had found them quite fascinating! The human mind definitely has much more to it than anything else on earth!!!   

[Stookie_]

Stookie, what do you mean by "awareness" and "focus" in this? Thanks!

By focus I suppose I mean where a person "focuses" their "awareness", in this case where along the entire spectrum of consciousness your awareness covers. Awareness would be what you as a person are aware of in the current moment. Right now my awareness is in front of my PC, my senses, my thoughts, etc. Then there are other things going on, but are outside of my awareness... subconscious stuff, like breathing. But of course I can expand my awareness to take some of those things in. Concentration is simply a "concentration of awareness" - shrinking awareness down to cover fewer things.

And by stretching awareness, I mean you expand your awareness into other states of consciousness along the spectrum. Awareness doesn't take form or size, just intent. 2 or more areas of consciousness in 1 single awareness (madness).

I see it's different than your explanation above - in mine, a vacuum has no awareness. The censors just send data to a program to execute certain code, none of which is aware. I understand what you're saying though. I suppose in daily life, most people would say "this is what I'm conscious of" not "what I'm aware of". I think I use the terms as I do in regards to AP because when I look at the spectrum of consciousness as a whole, it's not something we're "conscious" of, most parts of consciousness we remain "unconscious" of. If we didn't exist, it still would.

I don't have a clue if I'm right or wrong, that's just how I've always looked at awareness/consciousness in regards to AP.
(I hope I'm not confusing anyone. If you're confused, please ignore this.)