Can a astral projection be accomplished without sleep paralysis?

[lalajossa]

This is my first post! I have not yet accomplished astral projection yet but I am determined. So far I have got to the point where I started feeling a tingling sensation throughout my body. However, I thought that you could only get those sensations after sp. I want to know if it is possible since whenever i read what others been through they usually say that they went through sp. If anyone has ever done a astral projection without it then can you please give as much detail as possible of how it felt and/or advice?

[Szaxx]

Its only a signpost and should be looked at as just that...
I've never known it and have been active since  around 1964.

Welcome to the Pulse.
Im sure you will love it here.
Have a read in this section, lots of info.

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_the_astral_faq-b46.0/

[Bedeekin]

It is much easier to achieve Sleep Paralysis than not, but it is possible. The chances of you experiencing it through learning AP is pretty high because you will be messing around with your conscious awareness while essentially entering sleep.

Not everyone experiences it... although this is a minority.

But Szaxx... if you haven't experienced it.. .how can you know it's only a signpost?

It is a direct route for a BEGINNER... let's not beat around the bush here. You get Sleep Paralysis.. BANG.. .you are there.. .sure and fast. Too fast I would say because of the sensations... but there nonetheless. I don't need to have SP these days for nonphysicalness but I did when I first started out.. every time. When you say 'after SP' you must mean before or during. After SP comes projection or back to physical reality.

But 'yes' is the answer.

*EDIT*

Looking back on my answer I would like to add that there will be a bias with those that have never experienced SP/OOBE induction and those that have and this sort of question usually brings up different answers, depending who is answering.

It's up to you to sort out the mixed bag.

[Szaxx]

With respect to yourself and many authors of known reputation.
From the comments made SP is common for nearly all beginners. Its also more common in your younger years and diminishes around 50 years of age. Im older than that and never make any comments on its effects from experience. I've never had it from memory and have always assumed night travelling was normal practice until around 9 years old. Asking all my friends on travelling, none experienced it.
I don't know why this is. Even the vibrations are an absolute challenge to experience.
Still a mystery having had them around 6 times in all my years.
These too are reported as signposts.
If any newcomer expects them and is effectively 'immune', a stalemate may ensue.
There's lots I still have no answers to and despite all the knowledge printed and the internet one particular aspect is non existent.
My main point is someone will be in the same position, this could de-rail their progress.
My wording may be better at times, getting the message accurate 100% is impossible. I hope nothing prevents anyones progress in what info is given.

[Bedeekin]

An interesting fact that a lot of beginners fail to realise is that SP happens to everyone. Every single person who ever dreams has non-conscious Sleep Paralysis in the form of REM atonia. SP is just the term given to being aware of the process.

It's highly probable to the point of certainty that you will be undergoing REM atonia when you are in the thick of a projection Szaxx... just that you are not aware of it... the same goes for anyone projecting or dreaming.

The question could be better asked... "Can Astral Projection be accomplished without being aware of Sleep Paralysis?"

[Szaxx]

Aahhh
You shine the light. I see.
You are correct. I was looking at the question and addressing the 'prior to sleep' aspect only.
I'd hate to think what would occur if the actual paralysis failed when dreaming.
While phasing if I attempt to physically move in the visualisation state, I can. It's something I learned to 'not do'. Once the 'letting go' of the physical occurs I've already interacted with the scene.
The hardest part is getting into the RTZ like what occured almost nightly when very young. Its so difficult, Im off elsewhere in some unrelated location. Intent can make it happen but buckets full are required.
Just realised this.
I still remember the early days and no phasing occurred. It was a desire to be somewhere, on the ground or flying, it just happened. Always close to the sleeping physical. Exit through the window.
Some thought is required. A search on exit routines to the RTZ are in order.

I may find a way thats familiar.

[catmeow]

But Szaxx... if you haven't experienced it.. .how can you know it's only a signpost?

Because he hasn't experienced it.

I have only rarely experienced it, but you are correct, that's because I lose physical awareness of my body before I enter SP. I shift to to the NPR before entering SP. However, this being the case, you could argue that SP is not necessary in order to get into the NPR.

There is a class of OBE called a "mind split OBE" in which the physical body remains wide awake and continues walking, talking etc whilst a second copy of consciousness leaves the physical body and continues as a completely independent consciousness. The two consciousnesses are unaware of each other. The physical body remains active. So SP is not strictly necessary. However, almost all examples of mind split OBEs are spontaneous, not self induced.

[Bedeekin]

Weird... we were just talking about that on another thread.

The mind split OOBEs have been without SP... very true. But like you said.. they are spontaneous.

[catmeow]

I don't really know of any technique for inducing mind split OOBEs. Shame.

[Spood]

I don't really know of any technique for inducing mind split OOBEs. Shame.

If I remember correctly, Tom Campbell can do it. But then again he's pro

[ChopstickFox]

I've only consciously been aware I was in SP once and it was after waking up from a nightmare @_@ Been trying to keep aware while falling asleep. Trying trying... A few times I have thought I was, but distraught, I wiggled a toe, haha. Maybe eventually.

[Xanth]

Ok, what exactly do you guys mean by "mind split OBE"?

I'm under the assumption that splitting your focus while projecting isn't really the best idea as it ends up being confusing.
Or am I just not understanding what you mean?

[Spood]

Ok, what exactly do you guys mean by "mind split OBE"?

I'm under the assumption that splitting your focus while projecting isn't really the best idea as it ends up being confusing.
Or am I just not understanding what you mean?

I guess it's when you are aware of both "data streams". I guess it's like when you meditate and feel both sides but with complete awareness.

Just my guess =)

[Bedeekin]

Ok, what exactly do you guys mean by "mind split OBE"?

I'm under the assumption that splitting your focus while projecting isn't really the best idea as it ends up being confusing.
Or am I just not understanding what you mean?

'Mind split' is a term that's being used, although I'm not sure I would call it split. I wasn't aware of me walking/driving and me projecting... I was focused on the projecting while my physical self was doing its own thing.

On the other hand there is dual awareness... but that normally happens with me before or during projection.

Then there's running a simulation while I go about my daily business... which is just another form of 'thinking on it' or posing a problem that my subconscious works out while I engage myself in a current activity. I think this is parallel processing not 'mind split'.

[catmeow]

Bedeekin, I understand that you have experienced this a few times?

The Mind Split has been dealt with at length on this board.  It is NOT dual awareness. It is a true split in consciousness into two consciousnesses which then continue independently. One retains control of the physical body and is unaware of the existence of the other. The other goes into the RTZ and usually observes the physical body (quite accurately) going about its normal activity:

Here are some examples.

Nurse attending to patient has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/marcia_t_sobe.htm
Girl walking round shop has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/bonnie_c_sobe.htm
Girl working on wood carving has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/dixieann_t_sobe.htm
Man talking to personnel dept has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/iran_sobe.htm
Truck driver has OBE            http://www.oberf.org/dwight_m_sobe.htm
Woman driving car has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/nora_j_sobe.htm
Woman walking down 5th Ave has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/karen_k_sobe.htm
Woman walking/talking with friend in park has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/samantha_k_sobe.htm
Screaming kicking girl has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/luise_sobe.htm
Screaming infant has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/kevin_r_sobe.htm
Man walking/talking with cousin has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/brandon_sobe_2320.htm
Woman standing/talking with her mother has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/annie_b_sobe.htm
Girl sitting on swing has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/lisa_c_sobe.htm
Schoolgirl walking home has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kimberly_k_sobe.htm
Woman fighting off carjacker has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/amy_i_sobe.htm
Woman smoking/driving has OBE(s)      http://www.oberf.org/karen_d_sobe.htm
Man walking to beach has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/wayne_sobe.htm
Woman being screamed at has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kim_sobe.htm
Man sitting on porch with friend has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/david_s_sobe.htm
Person attending concert has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/onowa_v_sobe.htm
Hospital patient walking down corridor has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/william_b_sobe.htm
Man receiving bad news has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/shelly_k_sobe.htm
Woman standing at father's funeral has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jen_c_sobe.htm
Woman using ladies room has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kathryn_w's_sobe.htm
Man sitting in bar has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/gary_m's_sobe.htm

And the following are just too intriguing to omit;  They include a woman who physically chased her own astral body, an astral body which chased its physical body, a spontaneous dual OBE shared by two people whilst standing and talking, a precognitive OBE, an OBEr who talked to her physical friend teleptahically, and finally an OBEr who split into two "astral consciousnesses":

Woman physically chases her Astral Body!      http://www.oberf.org/dawn_k_sobe.htm
Girl chases her physical body whilst OBE       http://www.oberf.org/jewel_sobe.htm
Two talking women have a shared simultaneous OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jean_j_sobe.htm
Girl standing in baseball field has precognitive OBE    http://www.oberf.org/carolyn_t_sobe.htm
Woman talks telepathically to her friend whilst OBE    http://www.oberf.org/debi_s_sobe.htm
Person splits into two "selves" which whilst OBE   http://www.oberf.org/lourens_m_sobe.htm

Taken from my post here

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/obes_while_wide_awake_with_mind_split-t38124.0.html;msg312766#msg312766

[Xanth]

Bedeekin, I understand that you have experienced this a few times?

The Mind Split has been dealt with at length on this board.  It is NOT dual awareness. It is a true split in consciousness into two consciousnesses which then continue independently. One retains control of the physical body and is unaware of the existence of the other. The other goes into the RTZ and usually observes the physical body (quite accurately) going about its normal activity:

Here are some examples.

Nurse attending to patient has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/marcia_t_sobe.htm
Girl walking round shop has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/bonnie_c_sobe.htm
Girl working on wood carving has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/dixieann_t_sobe.htm
Man talking to personnel dept has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/iran_sobe.htm
Truck driver has OBE            http://www.oberf.org/dwight_m_sobe.htm
Woman driving car has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/nora_j_sobe.htm
Woman walking down 5th Ave has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/karen_k_sobe.htm
Woman walking/talking with friend in park has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/samantha_k_sobe.htm
Screaming kicking girl has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/luise_sobe.htm
Screaming infant has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/kevin_r_sobe.htm
Man walking/talking with cousin has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/brandon_sobe_2320.htm
Woman standing/talking with her mother has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/annie_b_sobe.htm
Girl sitting on swing has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/lisa_c_sobe.htm
Schoolgirl walking home has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kimberly_k_sobe.htm
Woman fighting off carjacker has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/amy_i_sobe.htm
Woman smoking/driving has OBE(s)      http://www.oberf.org/karen_d_sobe.htm
Man walking to beach has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/wayne_sobe.htm
Woman being screamed at has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kim_sobe.htm
Man sitting on porch with friend has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/david_s_sobe.htm
Person attending concert has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/onowa_v_sobe.htm
Hospital patient walking down corridor has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/william_b_sobe.htm
Man receiving bad news has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/shelly_k_sobe.htm
Woman standing at father’s funeral has OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jen_c_sobe.htm
Woman using ladies room has OBE       http://www.oberf.org/kathryn_w's_sobe.htm
Man sitting in bar has OBE          http://www.oberf.org/gary_m's_sobe.htm

And the following are just too intriguing to omit;  They include a woman who physically chased her own astral body, an astral body which chased its physical body, a spontaneous dual OBE shared by two people whilst standing and talking, a precognitive OBE, an OBEr who talked to her physical friend teleptahically, and finally an OBEr who split into two "astral consciousnesses":

Woman physically chases her Astral Body!      http://www.oberf.org/dawn_k_sobe.htm
Girl chases her physical body whilst OBE       http://www.oberf.org/jewel_sobe.htm
Two talking women have a shared simultaneous OBE    http://www.oberf.org/jean_j_sobe.htm
Girl standing in baseball field has precognitive OBE    http://www.oberf.org/carolyn_t_sobe.htm
Woman talks telepathically to her friend whilst OBE    http://www.oberf.org/debi_s_sobe.htm
Person splits into two “selves” which whilst OBE   http://www.oberf.org/lourens_m_sobe.htm

Taken from my post here

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_out_of_body_experiences/obes_while_wide_awake_with_mind_split-t38124.0.html;msg312766#msg312766

Ah, I understand what you mean now.  Thank you.

Knowing what I know now about consciousness, the definition of what you're referring to here doesn't occur.  This is the same kind of "split" that occurs to you each time you fall asleep at night.  Your physical body *can* go on automode for just about everything that can occur in life, we've have plenty of proof of this.  Like people driving to a distant location while being completely unaware of this (I have a friend who did this during a concussion, went to bed, woke up at a Coffee Shop a short drive from his house).  Sleepwalking is another example.  This is what's occurring... it's not so much a "mind split", as it is that one part of the dual consciousness just hasn't retained any level of waking awareness.

To me, this is a misinterpretation (as most things tend to be lol) of the experience.  In these cases, it's like dreaming, but in reverse.  The individual is consciously aware while being non-physical, yet their physical counterpart is doing the dreaming (aka physically consciously unaware).  Or another way to put it is that there was no waking awareness within that physical reality frame. 

I think people need to begin to do more comparisons between our physical and non-physical lives.  I've found so many similarities that it can't be a coincidence... and as such, my experiences support the conclusions I've drawn.  You may ask WHY should we compare physical experiences to non-physical experiences?   Because that, as I've found, ultimately they're THE SAME THING.  There is no discernible difference between what we have come to know as this physical reality... and any other non-physical reality we encounter.

[Szaxx]

This sounds like a suggestion placed during hypnosis. Told you will have no memory unti...
Is it a memory retention failiure or an absolute split of conciousness?
We read of shadow memory and losses during 'conversion' to physical memory especially after an exit to high frequency NPR's.
Anyone any insight on this?

[Xanth]

This sounds like a suggestion placed during hypnosis. Told you will have no memory unti...
Is it a memory retention failiure or an absolute split of conciousness?
We read of shadow memory and losses during 'conversion' to physical memory especially after an exit to high frequency NPR's.
Anyone any insight on this?

I view those interpretations as a means to over-complicate something that is rather simplistic in nature.  Consciousness is so very simple, that it's mind-boggling.  I've found that people enjoy adding convoluted layers to all this non-physical stuff. 

When you view consciousness and conscious awareness as a continuum of sorts... it makes it all so much easier.  All the blocks begin to fall into place.
I'm amazed that more people haven't figured this out yet.  But at the same time, I'm also not surprised they haven't... beliefs and all tend to get in the way of objectivity.

[Szaxx]

Thats not what Im pondering. Its the 'you' part of conciousness. If this is a singularity of sorts then its very simple. If a suggestion is all it takes to manipulate the 'you' then your conciousness can be directed with an understanding of how to...
The art of projection becomes far easier to achieve.
A precise directive assuming this would change the world almost overnight.
It's a long shot but anythings possible.
A thought on the daydreaming process where the physical world dissapears is a step in the right direction for BOTH.

[Xanth]

Thats not what Im pondering. Its the 'you' part of conciousness. If this is a singularity of sorts then its very simple. If a suggestion is all it takes to manipulate the 'you' then your conciousness can be directed with an understanding of how to...
The art of projection becomes far easier to achieve.
A precise directive assuming this would change the world almost overnight.
It's a long shot but anythings possible.
A thought on the daydreaming process where the physical world dissapears is a step in the right direction for BOTH.

100% agreed. 

[majour ka]

I project quite allot but ive never yet experienced sleep paralysis in my life.

Just relaxing the body and shifting awareness to the subtle body with practice. Or enter AP through lucid dream state.

Im sure its the agility of the mind and relationship with our own consciousness and subtle body that allows the shift from physical focus to astral/spirit awareness.

[majour ka]

An interesting fact that a lot of beginners fail to realise is that SP happens to everyone. Every single person who ever dreams has non-conscious Sleep Paralysis in the form of REM atonia. SP is just the term given to being aware of the process.

It's highly probable to the point of certainty that you will be undergoing REM atonia when you are in the thick of a projection Szaxx... just that you are not aware of it... the same goes for anyone projecting or dreaming.

The question could be better asked... "Can Astral Projection be accomplished without being aware of Sleep Paralysis?"

Hiya   while I understand what your saying and at the risk of splitting hairs it can only be considered SP if your aware of it. It could argued that we are in SP when we are asleep, but we can jump up awake and get out of bed if the door bell rings for eg. Yet from what I understand while experiencing SP that is most likely not possible, hence the term "paralysis".

Sleep is actually a very active state. There is often more physical body activity than when awake (according to scientific studies)

Re your question: Yes of course   Ive never personally known SP  

[Szaxx]

 @ Majour ka, I'd hazard a guess that NP awareness/ travelling is one thing you have known since your earliest memories.
@ All, has anyone worked out a commonality with various methods of attaining the NP?
No need to state the obvious, its the niche or totally unexpected events that speak a thousand words.
Comments during SP would be especially interesting.

[AstralCody]

Absolutely. SP is just a gateway toward AP. I laid down once and projected instantly.

[Xanth]

Hiya   while I understand what your saying and at the risk of splitting hairs it can only be considered SP if your aware of it. It could argued that we are in SP when we are asleep, but we can jump up awake and get out of bed if the door bell rings for eg. Yet from what I understand while experiencing SP that is most likely not possible, hence the term "paralysis".

Sleep is actually a very active state. There is often more physical body activity than when awake (according to scientific studies)

Re your question: Yes of course   Ive never personally known SP  

You're quite correct that it really happens everytime you fall asleep, but in such a case it's called Atonia.  More accurately, REM Atonia.
In practice, the only time it's actually called "sleep paralysis" is when REM Atonia is functioning incorrectly and you become consciously aware before the Atonia wears off.

As for the activeness of sleep... the REM portions of our sleep have relatively close to the same kind of brain activity as our waking brain activity shows.  That, in itself, is astounding.