For RB- Neg attacking babies-important info

[Adrian]

Greetings McArthur!

quote:


I am a regular reader of the News Group alt.magick because some very interesting conversations go on there. Recently, a conversation turned into some kind of revelation of occult truths that are rarely spoken of. It is related to something you have written about regarding negs attacking children. I have provided a link to the entire thread but i will quote part of Nguyen's post here; Some are responses to questions by others, i will try to name them in this post as it progresses;

"[Casey said]> Like you once said nguyen (if I recall what you said correctly)
>
> 'the best don't even make it out of their cribs - they're killed
> before they have a chance to grow up.'
>
>[Lisa said] Some are hidden away though, eh? hah... and I guess they
> do their growing up later.
>

[nguyen replies] This is most unfortunate Lisa that you have mentioned this. First you
must know that this has almost certainly affected some who might read
this post. It is terribly insensitive to them.

People are not ready to know. I don't think they ever really will be
in my personal opinion. People can't handle that kind of reality very
well. I've seen rejection of just the bare hints of it too many times.

Now that you've put it out there though, I have to at least briefly
address it to put it into context.

Through well known standard medical studies it is known that America
has an unusually high rate of SIDS/crib death. It is also known that
different countries including less developed countries have a much
lower and in some cases almost non-existent. For this reason, standard
medical interpretation has led to the hypothesis that is some
(unknown) culturally dependent factor that is independent of level of
medical care.

Now we enter the world of the occult, which is not scientifically
verified. However, put together these known factors.

Most cultures around the world have made specific magical charms or
blessings to ward off crib death from Egypt to China and world round.
Think of where Baptism probably got started as a hybrid adoptive
pagan/christian ritual. The Xtian baptism plus the pagan magical charm
against early crib death. Overtime the Xtian rite has become a
ritualized formality mostly.

Most cultures around the world keep their babies in the bed with the
parents at least until recently. This is not often done in America.
It is known (medically) that a child's biorhytms synchornize with
their parents when in direct physical prescence. This has been
(medically) hypothesized as a direct factor in preventing crib death.

In occult terms we would say the child's aura is open. Next we look at
adults with 'psychic' or 'magical' gifts. We note that they are often
more bothered by autonomous agent (spirit) activity than your average
populace by a much higher rate. Why should it be any different for
babies? No reason at all.

In occult terms, we formulate an occultic hypothesis. The child's aura
is open. I know from experiments and observations and case studies,
that when two people hug their auras blend. Certain gifted mediums I
know use this trick (blending their aura) with their SO's at night to
prevent them from becomming unwilling possession targets. Which
characteristically includes in negative cases the difficulty of
breathing.

Occultic hypothesis: spirits attracted to gifted babies that stand out
to them just like gifted adults do take advantage of their open
isolated "auras" and either inadvertantly or purposely cause them to
cease breathing. The reason why it's higher in America is that when we
got our modern culture, we stopped doing allot of these things.

That's a hypothesis. In my studies and travels and interviews, I have
found a mountain of observations and information that directly and
indirectly supports this as a conclusion... if not a scientifically
conducted one.

Lisa, why did you have to say that? Never in a 100 years would I have
said that openly. There is so much about our world that people cannot
accept emotionally, perhaps are better off not knowing.

It opens one up to the idea that there is an invisible world of forces
and beings that reach in and bonk with their lives. If they can handle
that thought it has to be structured along religious and moralistic
lines. They cannot imagine it as a social economy, a natural ecology,
where the law of nature rules invisibly as it does visibly. They look
that that invisible world to offer them a better reality than this
one. A better world that despite depictions in many ancient traditions
as being just as I have spoken as cruel and capricious ... they look
to believe in something better... or at least imagine they will have
escape to oblivion from this world's cruelty.

People can't handle that Lisa.

There are 'rules' being broken here, and while I don't care much for
rules it still could have serious consequences."

-----------------------
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=5740c929.0204031547.5df1399d%40posting.google.com&rnum=3&prev=/groups%3Fq%3Dgroup:alt.magick%2Bauthor:nguyen%26hl%3Den%26scoring%3Dd%26selm%3D5740c929.0204031547.5df1399d%2540posting.google.com%26rnum%3D3

A very disturbing, but very important post.

SIDS has been on a rapid increase from the middle of last century at least, and, despite all of the research, no physiogical cause has ever been proven as far as I know.

What I do know, as a parent, is that it is probably the greatest fear of parents with a baby of less than a year old.

Many factors have been suggested, including formula milk, parents who smoke in the presence of the baby, and the one that has the greatest proof so far (and I believe could have substance) - is placing a child on it's stomach in the crib.

But who would have thought of a neg attack as the cause of SIDS? Or miscarriage? After what Robert in particular has said here before, this HAS to be a very real possibility.

I would really like to hear from Robert and Nita on this one.

I guess the sad thing is though, even if this can be proven among ourselves, the general populace would surely scoff at the idea  

And what would the recommendation be for those spiritually aware parents as psychic defenses for their infants? Placing a crib in a properly constructed and consecrated circle? Perhaps place garlic around the infants crib?

Very important issue is this, and thanks McArthur for bringing it to our attention.

With kind regards,

Adrian.

[Winged_Wolf]

Now there's an interesting and creepy notion.  But I'm not entirely sure that born-psi infants that are high-psi stand out very much more than weaker born-psis.  That is to say, until abilities awaken, a child's field is lower-energy, and doesn't have that "active" tone that seems to draw entities flocking in.
This is something I intend to try to investigate, however--I'll certainly keep it in mind.

On the other hand, many of the born-psis who are high-psi awaken at around age 5, sometimes even a year or two younger.  And that DOES draw entities en masse.  A 4 or 5 year old is still extraordinarily vulnerable, and although they may not fall prey to SIDS, they all too often develop blocking due to trauma, and thus never reach their full psi potential.
A person who's suffered a serious trauma in childhood is much more likely to have emotional problems later in life, some of which can lead to suicide.
In addition, those psis who awaken later, in their teens, if they also happen to be high-psi, they may also suffer serious trauma which can lead to suicide--or worse, fall prey to the intensity of their own untrained, uncontrolled abilities, and be driven to it.

There's plenty to explain the absence of trained adults who are high-psi without bringing in spirit entities that commit infanticide.


--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

[Adrian]

Greetings Winged Wolf!

quote:
Now there's an interesting and creepy notion.  But I'm not entirely sure that born-psi infants that are high-psi stand out very much more than weaker born-psis.  That is to say, until abilities awaken, a child's field is lower-energy, and doesn't have that "active" tone that seems to draw entities flocking in.
This is something I intend to try to investigate, however--I'll certainly keep it in mind.

On the other hand, many of the born-psis who are high-psi awaken at around age 5, sometimes even a year or two younger.  And that DOES draw entities en masse.  A 4 or 5 year old is still extraordinarily vulnerable, and although they may not fall prey to SIDS, they all too often develop blocking due to trauma, and thus never reach their full psi potential.
A person who's suffered a serious trauma in childhood is much more likely to have emotional problems later in life, some of which can lead to suicide.
In addition, those psis who awaken later, in their teens, if they also happen to be high-psi, they may also suffer serious trauma which can lead to suicide--or worse, fall prey to the intensity of their own untrained, uncontrolled abilities, and be driven to it.

There's plenty to explain the absence of trained adults who are high-psi without bringing in spirit entities that commit infanticide.


--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

The points you make are very good and very valid.

But the greater issue is that of negs attacking unborn and young infants generally.

It might be due to some latent Psychic, Spiritual, Magic etc. potential seen as a future threat, or, at the other end of the scale it could be Karma bought over from a previous life. The middle course might be that negs attack infants who simply have weaknesses in their psyches.

Nevertheless - it is encumbent on us to consider these issues carefully I suggest.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[McArthur]

Something i will mention here is that i do not believe i stumbled on this topic by coincidence. I have recently (within the past few weeks) been re-experiencing childhood dreams and other phenomena that i now realize were some kind of spiritual interference. I won't go into details, but needless to say i myself am now aware of some kind of neg interefence in my baby/early childhood life.
I was drawn to Roberts work by a long string of coincidences that would take too long to explain.
The person who originally caused Ngyen to respond as he did is Lisa Gardner who i recognised (and told her so) on alt.magick from when she used to post at astralresearch.com
These things are *not* coincidence nor unconnected.
This is an important issue that needs dragging into the light of day and dealt with. When done so properly, i think it could have an enormous impact on our poor world as we now know it.

Peace

McArthur

[justine]

....

[McArthur]

quote:
This is such a fascinating topic Mcarthur, thanks for posting it. While I can't comment on the occult aspects I can comment on the practice of co sleeping with an infant.
When I had my eldest son in 1983, co sleeping was frowned upon to the point it was almost veiwed as child abuse by the medical community.
Nether the less I continued in secret because I just couldn't ignore my instincts that it was the right thing to do.
I have since had 3 other children and I have noticed it has been progressivly accepted. When I had my youngest in 1999 co sleeping was even presented as an option by the nursing staff.
Every one of my children easily and happily progressed to their own bed when they felt ready, usually 3 to 4 yrs old.

Hi Justine,
           it seems you must have good insticts, i suggest you follow them more often
If i was to have children with a partner i know i would take a similar approach to yours, just to be safe. Knowing that the child is further protected by your and/or your partners aura/protective energy while sleeping should be an incentive for more parents to follow this course of action. It would be much much harder for any neg to reach a child sleeping between its parents than in an isolated crib.

[Nita]

Hello MacArthur
  I think that newborns are susceptible to a lot of factors. They should be protected while in the womb and through childhood. My reasons for this is that a interesting ritual I use involves putting a egg in a persons room that uses a sympathetic link to absorb the evil affecting a person. Eggs are good for this because everything comes from eggs of one sort or another. The negative spirits will inhabit the eggs and you can break the outer shell as a banishing of their influences from the person and their space.
  I believe that babies would have a tendancy to be possessed by a spirit more often than being killed by the spirit. I still think that having something protective around the baby would really help. Rattles can be filled with protective herbs just as one thought here. The mobiles could have the normal symbols on them with protective symbols inside. There are a multitude of things that a parent can do to use protective symbols that no one would notice. The nordic runes alone make interesting patterns and can be put in clothes with no one noticing.
  Nita

[Winged_Wolf]

Yes, I practice co-sleeping as well, and of course breastfeeding, which also reduces the risk of SIDS by a substantial margin.

I pity the critter that even tries to come near this child....my mentor nearly popped my grandmother's ghost a good one before he recognized her, when she showed up near the baby.


--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

[Robert Bruce]

G'day Folks!

Negative spirit beings and etc definitely, in my experience, interfere with and harm infants far more than is believed.  This often causes disease, possession, death, and a wide variety of development and medical problems later in life. Core Images are often, in my experience, implanted in infants.  These are fictional trauma memories, eg, trauma memories that have no source of fact.  But the mind cannot tell the difference between actual trauma and fictional trauma had in the dream state.  And usually such CI's are not remembered.  But they can be recovered and removed using CI removal work.

I agree that Negs are attracted particularly to 'sensitive' babies who have psychic potential in life, and especially to mediumistic babies who produce a lot of subtle energy.  Early interference with such babies causes them to become unbalanced later in life.  Psychic abilities will often turn inwards and cause mental disturbance and illness, if not understood or realized for what they are.

I also agree that Negs form an unseen part of karma and of nature, and possibly even of unseen natural selection forces.

As for co sleeping, mother and baby, I strongly support this.  I remember seeing my favourite comedian, Billy Connelly, pleading with mothers to keep their babies in bed with them, and to place an open cot beside mum's bed, so baby can snuggle with mum or roll into their cot and play, etc, as necessary. The cot, of course, must be attached to the bed so baby does not fall out, etc.

Nita's ideas are very good for keeping Negs away from babies.  Such passive countermeasures can usually be used undetected, so people who don't believe and might thus be antagonistic about the use of such measures will not see them.  Out of sight and out of mind.

I deal with Neg related problems and children extensively in PPSD, which should be released in July this year.

I also agree with the view that people are generally unready to accept Neg related involvement with their lives.  I have stated my case on this in PPSD (Practical Psychic Self-Defense).

But I disagree with the poster who said that this is forbidden discussion, and or that this is breaking some kind of mysterious occult law, and or that discussing these matters will cause great harm to humanity if the knowledge gets out, etc.  If there was such a law, it must be localized to a particular occult group, as I have never heard of it. This also seems to be an elitist comment, designed to induce awe and etc.  If this were truly some law, as one poster claimed, then he deliberately broke it by commenting at some length. He could easily have avoided this or just said nothing.

As for the relationship between Negs and SIDS, well the links are not that clear.  Negs definitely cause disease, mental disturbance and even death in children. But other things also should be taken into account for the death toll, including diet and immunisation.  Most undeveloped countries, as cited in the alt.magick article, have poor immunization levels.  Such people also eat more natural 'organic' food, and are more likely to breast feed, exercise more, and in most cases are less exposed to pollution, etc.

I saw an article awhile back that said that some year ago, Japan banned immunization in children under the age of two, and that SIDS dropped by 90% afterwards.  I do not know if this is true or not, but the article looked authentic.  Maybe someone has the article or documentation to support this?  If yes, please post it here?

I have carefully studied the public record on vaccinosis, eg, illnesses and deaths caused by immunization.  According to this, minor problems from immunization occur in something like one in ten thousand, and more serious problems one in a hundred thousand, and chronic problems or deaths are put at about one in the millions.  But I suspect these statistics are grossly distorted. I personally (not internet friends) know a dozen or so children who have been significantly harmed, seriously injured or killed, by immunization injections.  But none of them were ever counted as a statistic, which may account for the abovementioned distortion in statistics. According to official statistic, I should not know so many cases.

I will give some of the worse cases below.  Again, all these people are people I know in my local area, which has a population of less than 20,000, and most are personal friends. You be the judge on what is going on here.

1. A healthy 5 yo girl is taken to the doctors for an immunization shot.  She quickly develops nausea, vomiting and a high fever.  Parents take her home and put her to bed at about 4pm.  They go in to check on her a couple of hours later and find her dead in her bed. The coroner finds that the girl died of SIDS, albeit right at the outer edge of the statistical measure.

*Vaccinosis is completely ruled out, even though the girl's symptoms started within minutes of the injection.

2. An Italian father (a personal friend of mine) took his healthy baby son, who is several months old, to hospital for an immunisation injection.  The baby screams constantly after the injection. Within ten minutes the baby is diagnosed with serious brain damage.  The baby screams continually and his parents taking turns nursing him.  The doctor tells the father that nothing can be done for the baby, and that it will be useless trying to sue the hospital or himself.  The father returns with a lawyer and a court order for the release of the baby's medical records, about a week later.  There is no record of the baby ever attending that day, or of having said injection.  All computer and paper records have been changed to reflect this. Only hospital administration has this level of access. The doctor involved was not available.  When they tried to find him, they found he had been moved suddenly to another state.  Despite their best efforts, without the hospital records no further action can be taken.  They try to get the attention of the media, but without proof no one is interested. The baby screams for two years solid, and then lapses into perpetual silence. He is now 14 years old, weighs about 50 lbs, and can only blink.  His grand mother nurses him. He is not expected to live very long.

*Vaccinosis is again ruled out, obviously, because there is no official record of the injection being given.

3. A friend of mine, an Anglican priest, and his wife have a baby. When several months old, the baby is taken for immunization.  The baby begins screaming almost immediately and develops a high temperature within minutes of the injection. The baby screams for three years solid, hardly sleeping.  Parents take turns nursing the baby during this time.  Their lives are shattered.  The father cried, a nervous wreck, when he told me what happened. The baby recovers slightly after this time, but develops a plethora of health problems and is quite badly brain damaged.

*This case was also not attributed to vaccinosis, but to the baby having a virus at the time of immunization.

4. Last year, a couple I know in the local area take their healthy baby son for his immunization injections about 10am.  The baby screams continually after the injection and soon develops a high fever.  They take the baby home.  The baby's condition worsens and they take the baby back to the doctors surgery four times, only to be told each time to give their baby paracetamol, bedrest and cool baths. They take the baby to two other doctor's surgeries, only to be told the same thing.  Later that afternoon, the parents are so worried, and unhappy with the multiple medical opinions they have been given, that they rush their baby to hospital.  The baby dies soon after arrival.  The distraught parents appeared in the newspapers and on the TV news that night, and it 'seems' that the wheels are in motion to find out what happened to the baby.  I watched this on TV, and read it in the daily newspaper.  The next night, a coroner representative appears on TV, and a story in the newspapers, explaining that the baby had a virus, and that this caused the child to have a bad reaction to the injection, and therefore it was the virus that killed the baby, etc. He went on to say how immunization is totally safe, quoting public statistics and etc.  He then sternly warns parents to be extra careful that their babies do not have viri when they take them to hospital. The parents are shattered to have the finger of blame pointed back at them, but they are powerless and have no public voice.  Keep in mind that doctors carefully check babies conditions immediately before immunization injections are given.  This case was not followed up by TV or newspapers. It just went away.

*Again, the above case is not credited as being caused by vaccinosis, but by parents allowing their baby to have an injection while he had a virus, albeit unknown to them at the time.

*No doctor in his right mind would give an immunization injection to a sick baby.  But it is impossible to ascertain whether or not a baby has a virus and is about to develop symptoms. So, logically, giving any baby an immunization injection is very hit or miss.  Basically, parents roll the dice and hope their baby survives.

4. My son, James, had an immunization injection about the age of two, eleven years ago.  He developed a fever and did not feel well after this.  That night he was dosed up with paracetamol and put to bed.  I checked on him a few times during the night, and gave more medication and fluids. The next morning I awoke and James was having a grand mal fit. I took him to the doctor, who told me I was mistaken and that James could not have had a grand mal fit, and that this was nothing to do with the immunization. Over the next few days, James had several more grand mal fits.  As the doctor's surgery was close by, I took James there during the close aftermath of one fit (seconds later), and the doctor then at least believed James was having grand mal fits.

The fits eased off and did not return, but James began to develop a host of health problems, including many allergies and food intolerances, chronic asthma, very high blood sugar, obesity, and later behavioural problems like ADHD and etc.  He was never quite the same after that injection.  However, James is lucky and is now living with me, where he is thriving on a high protein low carbo organic diet, and on lots of love and nurturing.  

If any of my children were ever to have another immunization, it would be over my dead and bleeding body, I kid you not.  I have just refused a further immunization injection for my son, James.  Its just not worth the risk. But I deeply sympathise with any parent with similar concerns, as they come under 'enormous' pressure to conform to the immunization program. They also come under a lot of ridicule and abuse from people. Here in Aus, mother's actually get a $500.00AU bonus for each child if they have them properly immunized at the right time. And some schools and daycare centres are trying to ban non immunized children.  Talk about blackmail.

In my opinion, unless a doctor can prove 100% that an injection will not harm a baby, the injection should not be given.  No one should be asked to roll the dice and gamble with their child's life. The sad thing is, I have found, that the vast majority of doctors and scientists actually believe in the official statistics and research data that they have access to.  This is quite understandable, given the data they are presented with.  I've asked a lot of doctors and medical professionals to satisfactorily answer my concerns on these matters, but am still waiting for answers.  They either look down their noses at me like I am some kind of insane person spreading lies and dissention, or they just simply ignore me. But I have, over the years, been fortunate to encounter a few doctors and scientists who actually agree with me.  However, most will not put their names to their opinions, as this would quickly end their careers.

If you think about how the official classifications of the cases I gave above were so easily misrepresented, its easy to see how official statistics may not be totally correct.

Finally, something closer to home.  Several years ago I had my one and only influenza injection.  I shared the vial with my son, Jesse, who was then about 6 years old.  He was fine, but within a few minutes I felt unwell. Within an hour I was stricken with the worst case of influenza I have ever had.  After an hour I could not walk, had incredible head pressure and pain, and laid in bed delirious for over a week and almost died in the process.  My doctor, who was finally called in to help, said my condition was just coincidental with the flu injection, and could not possibly have been caused by it.  I developed some nasty alergies and food intolerances as a result of this injection.  But again my doctor said they could not be related.

Further to the above, my doctor did not even believe me when I told him that I had become seriously intolerant to wheat and gluten, because the alergy tests he gave me all came back negative.  I found out my intolerance by taking myself off all wheat products for a month, in an attempt to identify what was causing me to feel unwell.  After this month, if I ate so much as half a cracker biscuit, I became bloated and my ears streamed so much fluid I would go stone death for a few days.  I repeated this, eating another cracker, after the fluid caused deafness wore off, several times, seeing the doctor each time.  He continued to diagnose me with middle ear infections and refused to accept the actual cause of my condition, no matter how much proof I offered.  I was ignored and treated like an ignorant child, as is usually the case when something goes against standard medical opinion.  I still have the wheat problem, but have built up  a liveable tolerance over the years.

*Please note that all the above are my personal opinions only, and are not intended to pursuade or dissuade anyone with regards to having or not having any kind of medical treatment or immunization, yadda yadda yadda...add nauseum.



Take care, Robert.





Edited by - Robert Bruce on 10 April 2002  10:19:06

Edited by - Robert Bruce on 10 April 2002  10:25:44

[Adrian]

Greetings!

I have to agree with Robert on this issue of immunisations.

The health authorities do seem to play fast and loose with peoples emotions on this issue, and, sadly, rely on the fact that the vast majority of people simply meekly conform without the slightest thought.

I have three sons, and they have all had all of their immunisations up to date, and thankfully have had non of the unfortunate experiences James suffered. But a few years back, the health authorities suddenly decided that one MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) wasn't enough, and so they decided that all children should have a second one, a few weeks after the first, while acknowledging that children had been injured by this - some permanently. I put my foot down over that one! One MMR has always sufficed for 99.99% of children, who would risk injuring a child by having a second MMR on those statistics? But sadly, most parent meekly do as they are told, and subject the child to that risk

Now when it comes to child safety - the thing not to get me started on is the extreme importance of strapping children securely into seatbelts into the back of cars.  I get SO angry when I see children not firmly secured in *three point harnesses* in the back of cars And I reckon that at least 75%+ of all parents are extremely guilty of that!

The times I follow cars, and the kids are playing in the back seat or on the car floor, looking out of the rear window, and generally moving around on the back seat of cars without any restraint whatsoever! I despair of some parents - they just do not seem to understand that if a car hits something at 60MPH, then everything and everyone in that car, immediately travels at 60MPH as the car is bought to an abrupt halt. Any unsecured child in the car has NO chance of survival. Parents seem to think that because a child is in the back of a car, they are safe. I have often been tempted to stop cars, and challenge parents about this whenever I see it, but all you get is blank looks The sad thing is - if a child was killed in this way, the parents would blame the car manufacturer or anyone but themselves whos fault it really is.

And equally as bad are rear seat lap only straps - i.e. without the three point shoulder harness. In the 60MPH scenario, the child, or passenger, still moves forward at 60MPH, and what happens to that persons spine and internal organs when subjected to a 60MPH of sudden pressure in one place - think about it!

In case everyone is wondering abou the relevance of this to this topic - it is that MANY more children are killed or injured as a result of complete parental negligence when it comes to securing children safely in cars, than die through SIDS every year, and unlike SIDS, and psychic attacks, car deaths are completely avoidable!

Why can't people think about these things - especially when the safety of children are involved? I feel so sad and so helpless when I see these things

Anyway  - I will climb down from my soapbox now. When it comes to the complete safety and welfare of children, whether it is due to psychic attack, or parental negligence, I feel that I just have to say something, and also do whatever I can do, without intefering in the natural course and destiny of things, in the hope that it might save a childs life one day.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[kifyre]

The Sanctity of Human Blood: Vaccination Is Not Immunization  


Also, go to "mercola.com" and do a search in the bar at the top for "vaccination" for a large collection of articles. I couldn't include the link because it was too long, but this is an *excellent* resource.

Warning: New Hepatitis Vaccine Recs Can Devastate Newborn's Health

When I have kids three hundred years from now (), I'll be damned if I'm going to inject pathogens and poisonous metals into their blood.

Mark

[Winged_Wolf]

I believe that deciding whether or not to vaccinate is a truly horrendous decision to force onto a parent.  The risks of vaccines are more than ever apparent....
But the diseases they're designed to help prevent are also apparent.

My son has had one shot--HiB.  His arm reddened and swelled, and he was cranky for several hours.  That's a common and very mild reaction to that particular shot.  I haven't given him any others since then.  Part of this is because until very recently, vaccines which did not contain thimerosol (a mercury derivitive) were not available to parents using Medicaid.

Now, he's over a year old, and I have to decide again what shots to give him....the vaccine are now thimerosol free.  The old ones were phased out....yes, that's right, they did not recall them--they phased them out, using up their stocks of mercury-laden vaccine.

Vaccines can cause brain damage or death.  So can measles.  Tough choice.  The vaccine isn't 100% effective.  The disease doesn't usually cause symptoms so severe.  The vaccine is usually safe.
And who can you trust to provide accurate figures on any of them?  The medical establishment will not count cases that were not officially recognized as being attributed to vaccines, which happens often as Robert pointed out.
But anti-vaccine groups often will attribute far more to vaccines than could rightly be blamed on them.  So neither can be trusted to provide the TRUTH about vaccines.

The truth is going to be, either the vaccine is more dangerous, or the disease is more dangerous.  That has to take into account your chances of contracting the disease at all...and the chance of developing a reaction, plus the rate of the vaccine failing to prevent the disease.  No one has ever done this.  Probably no one can, as not all of the information is available.

I was fully vaccinated as a child, with no ill effects, as was my husband.
When I was a teen, I got a Tetanus booster, and my arm swelled up and I got a high fever.  I was out of school with severe flu-like symptoms and aches and pains for a week.  I've not had any boosters since, naturally enough.
As a parent, this all causes me a huge amount of anxiety.  I'm reluctant to vaccinate at all, even for the most serious diseases.  But what, then, if my son catches one of those diseases?



--Winged Wolf
"I will stare at the sun until its light doesn't blind me, and I will walk into the fire, 'til its heat doesn't burn me, and I will feed the fire...."

[justine]

,,,

[Kristen]

Hi All -

Well this is a topic area near and dear to me - I'm an infant program supervisor for a very large daycare facility - the center houses over 100 children from 4 weeks to 5 years of age - for my part of it I have up to 16 infants at a time - sometimes more - I can't tell you anymore how much childhood illness I've seen.  

What Robert was saying about wheat and gluten intolerance - the ears streaming fluid - there are a significant proportion of my babies that have such severe ear infection problems that they have to get tubes - (its my impression that this is a significant problem everywhere it seems in America at least) and their ears are draining copiously all the time... of course, we feed rice and wheat based cereals, crackers, etc...

Also - regarding car seats - I can't agree more that using them is absolutely necessary...  are children's car seat laws strictly enforced in Europe and Australia?  

As for infant health in underdeveloped countries - it was my impression that infant mortality was deplorably high in many third world countries becuase of poor sanitation, poor access to health care, poor nutrition and outright starvation, etc...

Kristen

[justine]

...

[Donni_Joy]

Howdy!

Dates on posts are a bit wonky in places -- or do we have some time travellers, hmmm?

Immunisation is linked with cot death. Viera Schriender wrote an excelent book on it, which mentions the Japanese thing Robert talks of. Australian Skeptics have an article debunking her.

Placing baby on tummy -- studies were done in NZ with non-pakea and pakea familes -- they linked it with lambskins and even toxic fumes coming off mattress (formalahyde being one) -- baby on tummy, maybe bumper bar things up, no circulation of air, poisoned...

Justine, regarding immunisation and stuff in Australia. All you need do is go to a doctor for an exemption. You might have to state why, but this will get any immunisation monies into your bank account, and theoretcially, child into schools, daycare. I think you might have a legal case if refused in school as that is discrimination. With the exemption, some people have spiritual reasons.

While on the subject of care for our children, I am an adcocate against infant male circumcism which is an irreversible body modification made mostly for cosmetic reasons on an unconsenting minor. Medical boards now recognise it has no medical benefits for a healthy penis.

Funnily enough, one of my fave books, "The Inner Guide Meditation" by Edward Steinbrecher, advocates circumcism, stating it has spiritual benefits. It may well do so, however I think children need to make their own choices, personally, religiously, etc.

OK, enough!

Cheers
Donni


"A balance of perspective must be maintained in order to preserve reasonable logic and truth." Robert the Brute, 2002

[SteppenWolf]

Woah!  Robert, those tales of vaccinations gone wrong were terrible!!!  Thanks for sharing them...

As for more info on negative effects of vaccines - there's this complete online study by the Institute of Medicine which is pretty comprehensive and mentions the pertussis vaccine issue in Japan a lot.  (Warning - pretty heavy stuff.)
http://books.nap.edu/books/0309044995/html/index.html

A bit easier to read is this link between SIDS cases in Fresno County and DPT inoculation after 11 infants died in Tennessee - all within 8 days of their inoculation.  The coroner says from now on, with SIDS cases he will be asking when the child was last vaccinated.
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/fresno3.html

And came across this interesting site about reducing the problems using Homeopathy for people who feel they must vaccinate:
http://www.tinussmits.com/english/dynamic.htm

Actually - just hit paydirt:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=10714532&dopt=Abstract
That's an abstract of a study on the National Library of Medicine website which concluded that "DTP or tetanus vaccination appears to increase the risk of allergies and related respiratory symptoms in children and adolescents"

Got the tip from this article which rebuts various pro-vaccination arguments.
http://www.mercola.com/2000/aug/13/vaccination_forbes.htm

For a ton more stories etc on vaccination, check
http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html
An especially good page is this one:
http://www.whale.to/vaccine/sids.html


Amazing the things one learns every day!!!  Makes me wonder about my family's allergies and my girlfriend's family's allergies too...  Ah well - we'll know better when it's our turn.

Cheers,
Richard http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

PS I would really recommend subscribing to the newsletter at http://www.mercola.com - that guy really kicks arse!

[McArthur]

I am a regular reader of the News Group alt.magick because some very interesting conversations go on there. Recently, a conversation turned into some kind of revelation of occult truths that are rarely spoken of. It is related to something you have written about regarding negs attacking children. I have provided a link to the entire thread but i will quote part of Nguyen's post here; Some are responses to questions by others, i will try to name them in this post as it progresses;

"[Casey said]> Like you once said nguyen (if I recall what you said correctly)
>
> 'the best don't even make it out of their cribs - they're killed
> before they have a chance to grow up.'
>
>[Lisa said] Some are hidden away though, eh? hah... and I guess they
> do their growing up later.
>

[nguyen replies] This is most unfortunate Lisa that you have mentioned this. First you
must know that this has almost certainly affected some who might read
this post. It is terribly insensitive to them.

People are not ready to know. I don't think they ever really will be
in my personal opinion. People can't handle that kind of reality very
well. I've seen rejection of just the bare hints of it too many times.

Now that you've put it out there though, I have to at least briefly
address it to put it into context.

Through well known standard medical studies it is known that America
has an unusually high rate of SIDS/crib death. It is also known that
different countries including less developed countries have a much
lower and in some cases almost non-existent. For this reason, standard
medical interpretation has led to the hypothesis that is some
(unknown) culturally dependent factor that is independent of level of
medical care.

Now we enter the world of the occult, which is not scientifically
verified. However, put together these known factors.

Most cultures around the world have made specific magical charms or
blessings to ward off crib death from Egypt to China and world round.
Think of where Baptism probably got started as a hybrid adoptive
pagan/christian ritual. The Xtian baptism plus the pagan magical charm
against early crib death. Overtime the Xtian rite has become a
ritualized formality mostly.

Most cultures around the world keep their babies in the bed with the
parents at least until recently. This is not often done in America.
It is known (medically) that a child's biorhytms synchornize with
their parents when in direct physical prescence. This has been
(medically) hypothesized as a direct factor in preventing crib death.

In occult terms we would say the child's aura is open. Next we look at
adults with 'psychic' or 'magical' gifts. We note that they are often
more bothered by autonomous agent (spirit) activity than your average
populace by a much higher rate. Why should it be any different for
babies? No reason at all.

In occult terms, we formulate an occultic hypothesis. The child's aura
is open. I know from experiments and observations and case studies,
that when two people hug their auras blend. Certain gifted mediums I
know use this trick (blending their aura) with their SO's at night to
prevent them from becomming unwilling possession targets. Which
characteristically includes in negative cases the difficulty of
breathing.

Occultic hypothesis: spirits attracted to gifted babies that stand out
to them just like gifted adults do take advantage of their open
isolated "auras" and either inadvertantly or purposely cause them to
cease breathing. The reason why it's higher in America is that when we
got our modern culture, we stopped doing allot of these things.

That's a hypothesis. In my studies and travels and interviews, I have
found a mountain of observations and information that directly and
indirectly supports this as a conclusion... if not a scientifically
conducted one.

Lisa, why did you have to say that? Never in a 100 years would I have
said that openly. There is so much about our world that people cannot
accept emotionally, perhaps are better off not knowing.

It opens one up to the idea that there is an invisible world of forces
and beings that reach in and bonk with their lives. If they can handle
that thought it has to be structured along religious and moralistic
lines. They cannot imagine it as a social economy, a natural ecology,
where the law of nature rules invisibly as it does visibly. They look
that that invisible world to offer them a better reality than this
one. A better world that despite depictions in many ancient traditions
as being just as I have spoken as cruel and capricious ... they look
to believe in something better... or at least imagine they will have
escape to oblivion from this world's cruelty.

People can't handle that Lisa.

There are 'rules' being broken here, and while I don't care much for
rules it still could have serious consequences."

-----------------------
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