Beyond the astral

[Szaxx]

It does feel real, we have learned all our perspectives based on it.
We have been in phase with the indigenous rules for existance.
Learned ways of survival from our peers.
Used the senses given at birth to explore what we can.
I can already see a problem with this.
Can you?

[Lionheart]

 Once again Tom Campbell comes through with another interview talking about this very subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=punQxHCve0o

[windbreeze]

My understanding is that you create your own heaven or hell upon your permanent departure from this physical reality.
They're just realities in the same sense as this physical reality is a reality.

Actually, as far as I'm concerned, everything is non-physical.  This includes this so-called physical reality.  How's that for tossing ya for a loop? 

That's interesting and it seems to depend on how you life ends. If it ends positively then you create heaven for yourself but if it ends negatively i.e you end it, suicide, then you create hell for yourself?

Here is disconnection: it is known that we reincarnate but what if one goes to heaven or hell? Heave and hell is permanent state, correct? Then how can one reincarnate again if he is forever in heaven or hell?

What if person is born first time in this world and is yet to reincarnate for the first time? What if that person goes to heaven or hell? Does that mean person never reincarnates?

[Szaxx]

Hell is a place you go to learn your lesson.
In the old system it's not permanent, once you've been exposed to the bad things you did by others returning it you progress. If you have no interest in learning the errors of your ways, you'll stay until you do.
Heaven as far as I can say is the end of all your learning. A pure spiritual form ( labelling it) where understanding is gained fully before anything else. There's no point blaming some entity for their actions until you know why they were put into that position in the first place. An unruly child for example will be ridiculed by most, if they are suffering abuse, it's no wonder they react as they do.
Take them away from it completely and you'll be surprised at the difference. The deep routed emotions are another thing.
Suffer ye the children, familiar?

Reincarnation is a more than once occurrence. This in itself is another topic.

You have some interesting questions.
All the answers given are open to speculation too.

[Astralzombie]

That's interesting and it seems to depend on how you life ends. If it ends positively then you create heaven for yourself but if it ends negatively i.e you end it, suicide, then you create hell for yourself?

From what I am seeing, it depends more on what you personally think you deserve. So if Hitler didn't think he deserved a "hell", he probably isn't in one. That is far from equating that he is in some kind of "heaven" though. I'm not big into Karma but hoping for justice and righting wrongs is one way to place yourself under Karma's rule.

Suicide has always been a taboo subject but Christianity didn't make suicide a mortal sin until the 4th or 5th century. Too many people were taking the bible at it's word and were killing themselves to get to heaven faster.
 
And don't forget, one man's idea of heaven could be another man's version of hell. I agree with Szaxx and believe that a true heaven is more of a place where you're learning and evolving is almost complete.

I personally believe in reincarnation be cause there is so much to learn that we are incapable of learning it all in one lifetime. Heck, we won't even know that we missed something in one lifetime.  To me, life is so hard and confusing, that I can't see a loving God make someone get it right or else on their first time around.

These are just my opinions of course. All is based on what I have seen and what makes sense to my current understanding and mindset but not necessarily what makes me happy. If something is in line with what you desire, you should always think twice about it being true.

[Bedeekin]

If something is in line with what you desire, you should always think twice about it being true.

Very true... unless it's something that applies to physical reality. I have been creating my own reality for years. How do you think a small kid from a backwater town in the UK lands himself a top position in the film industry without any college education and qualifications to speak of? That's just a very small part of the bigger picture but it can't be taught... only experienced.

[Astralzombie]

You're right. I was just speaking about our non physical journeys. If you work hard enough to fulfill your desires, then by all means, bask in it's glory!

How do you think a small kid from a backwater town in the UK lands himself a top position in the film industry without any college education and qualifications to speak of?

Yeah, I was wondering the same thing. You didn't snuff anybody did you?

Obviously, I'm joking. Your talents are amazing and are only rivaled by my lack of talents.

The competition in the film industry is so fierce that talent alone doesn't always get you in the door. Perseverance is just as important. Tough skin doesn't hurt either.

You've earned everything good that comes your way!

[windbreeze]

I have been creating my own reality for years. How do you think a small kid from a backwater town in the UK lands himself a top position in the film industry without any college education and qualifications to speak of?

It is like getting a job as rocket scientist without any education and qualifications?

You mentioned that you have been creating your reality. I think there is a saying that goes like "Everyone is a blacksmith of his/her own happiness"...

[Bedeekin]

It's the way of getting into a clique industry by avoiding the pitfalls of the worst engineered parts of the human condition that's the trick. It's a bit of a breeding ground of jealousy and envy. It's also orchestrated and ran by greed - the studios. If I had entered the industry at any time earlier than I did I wouldn't have been able to handle it.

At the end of the day I loved films and was arty... and that was an obvious vocation for me.. but I was constantly being told that I couldn't move forward towards the goal via non-physical means. It was a sort of waiting game. But one where I was constantly given opportunities of creating the right choices available so that all possible outcomes led to the final outcome I was desiring. It was a non-conscious process at the time you understand. I wasn't some sort of alchemist of destiny. I was just intuitively following pointers and making decisions based upon my nonphysical experiences at the time. 

It is when I try to orchestrate it consciously that doesn't actually work. I know why... it's because of true intent. Like trying to ice a cake that hasn't been made yet... or build a castle without foundation.

Anyway.. this is the reason it's obvious to me that both the physical and nonphysical are intertwined. The nonphysical does seem to dictate the physical in terms of consciousness... we as conscious beings build objects and make things based upon the constrained laws of this reality construct. We also furnish the nonphysical with the same metaphorical constructs like rooms and windows... a more 'meta-literal' version of what we do here.

Whatever HELL or HEAVEN we end up in... Whether it's fire and brimstone or clouds and harps... we are still projecting physical metaphors within consciousness.

Thinking on that, it's an interesting thought to imagine they will go to heaven or hell go to their own construct and play out their fantasies within their own little heaven/hell while tucked away in their little VR prison. Maybe those who are more awakened get to be a bit more 'in the know'... The Tibetan Book of the Dead winks at this.

[windbreeze]

I was constantly being told that I couldn't move forward towards the goal via non-physical means.

Can you clarify what you mean by non-physical means? Non-physical means are just thoughts and intent?

It was a sort of waiting game. But one where I was constantly given opportunities of creating the right choices available so that all possible outcomes led to the final outcome I was desiring. It was a non-conscious process at the time you understand. I wasn't some sort of alchemist of destiny. I was just intuitively following pointers and making decisions based upon my nonphysical experiences at the time.

What you are describing here is destiny? Are you implying that destiny of every one of us actually works in our favor? WHat about destiny of kind man vs. destiny of criminal? Was their destiny's intent good but it were bad choices that cirminal made? Does it mean that each of us is given a destiny that is aimed at bringing us at something good but it is our wrong choices that can make go things awry?

It is when I try to orchestrate it consciously that doesn't actually work. I know why... it's because of true intent. Like trying to ice a cake that hasn't been made yet... or build a castle without foundation.

If I am understanding correctly, having intent is bad? Or it is good to have intent but it is bad to manifest something consciously that doesn't actually work, something that does not exist? Isn't that dreaming? I know they say that dreaming is good though...

Whatever HELL or HEAVEN we end up in... Whether it's fire and brimstone or clouds and harps... we are still projecting physical metaphors within consciousness.

Thinking on that, it's an interesting thought to imagine they will go to heaven or hell go to their own construct and play out their fantasies within their own little heaven/hell while tucked away in their little VR prison. Maybe those who are more awakened get to be a bit more 'in the know'... The Tibetan Book of the Dead winks at this.

Here you mean that heaven or hell is just another physical construct of our consciousness? Is it just another physical world but differnet from this world we live in?

[Bedeekin]

"Can you clarify what you mean by non-physical means? Non-physical means are just thoughts and intent?"

None physical as in AP. One example is that I used to spend a lot of time trying to visit Jim Henson's Creature Workshop and other places that made stuff like that during OOBEs. Every time I attempted I would come upon barriers and things that caused me shame within those scenarios. They caused a weird fear or procrastination about not being good enough to be there and seemed to be filled with a sort of negativity. Over the years I acted upon clues within the experiences on what to do to get there and what to expect. I was schooling myself basically. Maybe this process goes unnoticed by those who don't experience their nonphysical consciously.

"What you are describing here is destiny? Are you implying that destiny of every one of us actually works in our favor? WHat about destiny of kind man vs. destiny of criminal? Was their destiny's intent good but it were bad choices that cirminal made? Does it mean that each of us is given a destiny that is aimed at bringing us at something good but it is our wrong choices that can make go things awry?"

A self made destiny... not a written in the stars type thing. I don't think we are given a predestined destiny. It is our free will that pushes us through our life. If our intent is strong enough we can conspire with reality to create a destiny or path.

"If I am understanding correctly, having intent is bad? Or it is good to have intent but it is bad to manifest something consciously that doesn't actually work, something that does not exist? Isn't that dreaming? I know they say that dreaming is good though..."

No.. it's not bad at all. It just seems very difficult to orchestrate the future in conscious increments rather than follow the signs of a path well trodden.

"Here you mean that heaven or hell is just another physical construct of our consciousness? Is it just another physical world but differnet from this world we live in?"

Yes. I think if you find yourself in another place with furniture and trees... regardless of whether the denizens have horns or wings... you are in another metaphorical construct organised by belief.

[Szaxx]

Good post Bedeekin.
Intent is the power to actually do something.
A strong intent can be utulised in any way, for good or bad. Its your choice.
Be wise in your actions, as far as belief systems go, I've noticed groups of like minded entities seem to be the norm. Birds of a feather....
I've posted this before too.
If you want nice, then be nice, a no brainer really.

[Astralzombie]

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" it sounds catchy but I think it's a bunch of bull. All it does is try and shame someone into doing whatever it takes to insure a perceived positive outcome in someones favor. Intent is all there really is.

We're always told and I believe, that all that matters is what is in our hearts. Well, that means intent. Admittedly, the waters can get a bit murky but the truth has a way of clearing things up.

I can't really expand on anything Beedeekin said because it was spot on.

[xain458]

The Difference is.... you die in PR while you don't die in NPR

[CFTraveler]

I thought, heaven and hell have their own dimensions and densities. How can they both be on astral plane?

Answering in terms of your question, the astral has lots of subregions.  Hell has been said to be in the lower astral, while belief system territories are in the middle astral (which would be different religious versions of the afterlife, not all 'heavenish' but not all 'hellish' either.)
In the hierarchical system of planes, the physical is the 'lowest/most dense' and the hell planes are the lowest of the astral planes, which are higher than the 'etheric' planes, and they get higher and higher as your understanding of them gets psychologically farther and farther from the physical.