Question for Frank

[stevewhite2000]

Just so you know what techniques or stage I'm at now....
I can totally relax to the point where I can't feel my body any longer, but stay awake mentally.  I have been praticing being somewhere else in my mind and trying to make that scene seem real, like I'm there...(to practice using my imagination and visualisation).  At the moment when I do this, I seem to flicker between being conscious of looking into the darkness of my closed eyes and the picture in my minds eye. I have also been practicing no to let my minds voice get carried away and blabber on
I have never had any feeling of my consciousness being shifted outside my body, except for sometimes when I awake from a light sleep only to feel myself falling back into my body (I assume).
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[Mirador]

Stevewhite,

Sorry to eavesdrop on your private message to Frank, but if you aske me, I reckon you're putting to much emphasis on technique. The same happened to me when I learned to swim, I read everything written on the subject, and I even took private lessons from my cousin (who is paralized from the waist down, after a diving accident), he told me all about it. However, it wasent until I sumerged myself in deep water that I finally was able to swim.

Mirador

[DOA]

HI steve

Sorry to butt in also but I have been trying for seven years to master AP.  Id have some success but then never be able to recreate it.  I feel I am starting to make progress now tho becouse after 7 years I finally learned something.  I believe it is not necessarily the tech you use but that you dont expect anything and that you give the tech time to work.  I would give it at least 6 months.  By doing this you take all the pressure off yourself and can just relax into it.....  Which really what is necessary to project.  


DOA

[stevewhite2000]

Hey. I think I understand what you guys are saying. But at the moment I'm not so worried about asking for particular techniques, just what I should be starting with to get to a point where I can impliment the techniques..... Not sure if you'll understand that one.
I'll try again, I think any simple exercises that would be usefull to start with to practice to get me from the point of being in limbo, (where I get very relaxed but not sure what to do now) to eventually some technique that I can practice..
Guess I'm just after some tips to start to allow me to feel something that I can work with.
Thanks guys..........any basic ideas to prepare me. Feel free to comment on any insights that you've discovered along your journeys.

[Frank]

The one thing I wish I knew clearly, back then, is knowing where the Astral pathway originates (from the point of view of being Physical).

Basically, there is a centre road between awake and sleep that you need to travel down. It is not a difficult thing to do in terms of brainpower. Like, you don't need to be particularly intelligent, or clever, or gifted. It's just a rather tricky mental balancing act to perform.

Ultimately, what a person needs to do is somehow passively observe themseves falling asleep. How each individual does that can differ wildly from person to person. Which is the basic reason why there are just SO many techniques out there.

The other major thing I wished I'd known from the outset, is about how thoughts - within the Astral - become things. That would have saved me years of faffing about going nowhere in particular. During which time I fought in all manner of wars, slayed dragons galore, and encountered more demons than I could ever care to remember.

The post by DOA contains a good point, in the sense that it is ever so easy to put a spoke in the works through faulty thinking. So success in this can so easily come down to what you don't do.

I have certain feelings that nowadays I fully recognise as signposts in the general projection process that I had back then. Only "then" I was so busy trying to in some way "force" the projection issue, these subtle mental signs were largely overlooked.

Yours,
Frank

[stephen~]

It is good to see advice along the lines of the 'do nothing' approach.

I really feel too much emphasis is put on trying to project by those who want to project, when the aim should be slightly lower - to maintain a level of consciousness while falling asleep. Learn that as a solid foundation first and the rest ought to come naturally.

I found it easier to project when I didn't have a clue what was going on than I do now I know loads of techniques. Excercises to teach you how to relax and how to stay aware at the onset of sleep are very useful to train the mind to be in the right state, but I think you almost need to not care at all whether you project to actually be able to project.

I can feel even before I sleep that I'm going to get projection symptoms, there's a pulsing feeling in my brain, and a slight cloudiness. No matter how much I might want to project, if those feelings are not there then I can forget it because it just won't happen. I think learning all this stuff about how to spot symptoms, learning to retain the right amount of consciousness is more important than specific techniques about projection,

just my 2 cents.

[Frank]

quote:I can feel even before I sleep that I'm going to get projection symptoms, there's a pulsing feeling in my brain, and a slight cloudiness. No matter how much I might want to project, if those feelings are not there then I can forget it because it just won't happen.

That's a good example of the kind of situation I'm explaining about. In that there are specific mental feelings and/or knowings that happen as a normal part of the process. Unfortunately, many of these mental happenings can be very subtle, and are so very easily overlooked.

Myself, I know I have to be in a particular state of sleepyness otherwise it 'aint going to work. And that's not just me telling myself that, so it comes about like some self-fullfilling prophecy. I've tried coming from all kinds of angles and, before I project, I recognise this particular relaxed state every time. Once I recognise it, I know exactly what will come next. When that next thing happens, I know exactly what will come after, and so on, and so on.

The moment this process is started, I basically do nothing but passively observe while the experience unfolds. If I do anything other than that, the process will immediately come to a halt.

So any "technique" I try is not done in order to, in some way, cause me to project. It is used solely to try and bring me to that particular relaxed state of sleepyness. Once I'm there I just passively observe while the projection experience unfolds.

The frustrating thing, for me, is I have not yet found a reliable way of placing myself in that prerequisite state. I can go 3 or 4 mornings where I just fall into it, and then there will be a morning where it may take me an hour or more. On average, I'd say it takes me around 40 minutes.

What I found useful was tracing back any mental feeling associated with the projection process. So, for example, with yourself you say about the slight cloudiness. What I would do is try and find out what came about the instant before that; and then the instant before that; and so on. This is how I successfully managed to slow down what used to be my normal projection experience. An experience which consisted basically of mega-vibrations coupled with a feeling like I had been shot from a cannon.

The problem I'm having is I traced it all back to this particular sleepy state. However, I cannot yet get to grips with what comes about the instant before. It seems to me to be a number of what are often contradictory scenarios.

quote:
I think learning all this stuff about how to spot symptoms, learning to retain the right amount of consciousness is more important than specific techniques about projection.

People do seem to place a great emphasis on techniques which can be counter-productive. Somehow a person has to find a way of passively observing themselves falling asleep. With me, I'm finding more and more that just the act of passively observing is enough to maintain conscious awareness.

Yours,
Frank

[Comokisadore]

Frank and Major Tom, you guys have some knowledge.

My first OBE happened during daylight, I took a nice cool shower after a jog, and I laid in bed on my side with my left arm between my two legs, I just passively observed myself fall asleep with the intention of astral projecting, i come to the conclusion that our desires get fulfilled when we are in a happy state and when we let things go and let our higher selves take over.

after five minutes of being passive and single minded, I felt, saw, and heard a huge white wave in my head, BANG, all of a sudden I was looking at the room with new eyes, and I can feel this heavenly bliss on me, I can also see my arm which I tried to move, but when I felt another arm with a hazy outline to it, I got confused, I actually forgot that I wanted to project and I was wondering what this was all about, our different conciousness is almost like a whole new person.
The experience ended when I heard a lady call my name, i thought it came from downstairs because their were people down their. The clarity and reality of it was unbeleivable.

Major Tom, I beleive I have add (I had a dream phosphorus is what I lacked, and phosphorus is important to the throid hormones which regulate metabolism and the nervous system) anyways I constantly zone out and dont pay attention as frequently as other people do, I have been having small scales obe's for a long time yet I wasn't even aware, one time I almost completely left this reality while I was sweeping the living room and trying to talk to my aunt, who said "Theirs no one in him", at the same time.

having an obe is easier than we think, its just human laziness and impatience that makes it seem hard.

Consistancy and dedication to any cause will yield results.

-Como

[Nay]

LOL...and GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR...[]  [}:)]

I thought Frank had came back and was all excited, then I looked at the date..[]  Still wonderful advise though..[^]

Why oh why, doesn't he heed our call?...[|)]

Nay

[jc84corvette]

Heh me too Nay.

[Nay]

Pssssssst...between you and me....  He has peeked in, but no comment to the board or Mod forums..shhhhhhhh...Mumms the the word.[]

Don't you worry, he gets enough energy directed his way, he will have to comment...lol..[^]

Nay

[SpectralDragon]

I hope Frank comes back, I am interested in speaking with him. He seems like a VERY talented guy. Why did he leave?

[Kerrblur]

he hopped away and forgot his place, which is here.

[Akensai]

quote:I thought Frank had came back and was all excited, then I looked at the date..

This happened to me a few times now.

Somehow I wonder what happened to him.

[Kodemaster]

I was wondering the same thing: where did Frank go? He was *so* good to "talk" to...I've been dying to find out, but afraid to ask.

He could write a book with all that knowledge.

::Sends vibes his way:: "Frank, come back!!!!!"

[]

[stevewhite2000]

If you happen to read this Frank, I was wondering if you could give me some feedback....
I have been reading your posts on astral phasing, and was wondering after all you efforts to get where you are now do you have any suggestions as to how you would go about getting there again if you had to start from the beginning.  I know I didn't word this question very well (I'm kinda gettin tired!!), so I will add some other information to help you understand.  I am very much a beginner at all of this (astral projection/visualisation/concentration techniques) but sound a bit like you might have been when you first started....
After all your trial and error, how could you suggest that I go about getting to a similar level as yourself in being able to astral project using phasing....
I think after reading your current posts, I am trying techniques that I'm not totally in the right mind state or degree of mastery of the techniques to achieve them successfully.
Any suggestions to a pathway that might take me in a more direct line to what I want to achieve or to any of the mistakes you might have made that I should watch out for....
Thanks