Is astral projection occult/against the bible?

[pkmoney]

I personally believe in the bible, every word (please don't turn this into a religious debate). If those are my beliefs, should I stay away from astral projection? Is it considered "occult"? I've been doing research and getting all mixed answers, I want to see what an astral forum has to say.

[Volgerle]

The bible contains astral experiences itself (described as meetings with angels, seeing burning bushes, having visions). Apostle Paul even literally describes an out-of-body experience somewhere (can't give the reference now exactly as I'm no bible literate at all). Esekiel's story is a visit of astral realms possibly. The book of Revelations describes "heavens and hells" or similar and it is more or less all astral realms.

[soarin12]

No.  Consider St. Paul's trip to the 3rd heaven in Acts - He said "Whether in the body or out of the body, I don't know."  -- Revelation by St. John -- All the prophetic dreams in the bible -- that's all projection.

The verses in the OT where it says -Don't conjure spirits (talk to the dead) may leave you wondering if you are going against the bible if you meet your dead grandmother in an AP or talk to any other spirits you may meet.

Looking into the history of what was going on with these spirit conjurers in the bible, it would seem that what they were doing bore no resemblance to what modern mediums/ AP practitioners do.  The former were trying to contact "the dead" which to them actually meant demons, not good human spirits.  They were doing this to get information for personal gain and were engaging in depraved rituals.  The latter want to contact their loved ones to say - Hey, are you there?  I love you.  How are you?  You OK?   --So one gives you a completely different vibe than the other.

Many modern Christian churches just take these talking to the dead scriptures at face value and don't look into the history.  The sources I looked at for the above were actually from modern Jewish scholars.  I figured they ought to know a thing or two about their own writings/heritage. (O.T.)  These faithful practicing Jewish people had no problem with modern mediumship which would include AP.  I found that interesting.

I'm a Christian (non-fundamentalist) and although I don't believe in the whole bible as you do, I love and respect the teaching of Jesus and many other passages as well.  I AP on a regular basis and have had beautiful connections to God through it that enrich my life so much.  

[skeptic]

here is the excerpt from the article i read some time ago

" Myth 9: Astral Projection changes a person's religious beliefs.

Truth: An in-depth study of 350 participants was conducted and published by Dr. Melvin Morse in 1992. According to that study, out-of-body experiences did not seem to alter one's religious beliefs. In fact, most people reported that their religious beliefs were confirmed and strengthened by their out-of-body experiences."

Love and Peace.

[Bluefirephoenix]

Consider this. "Everything is permissible but not everything is beneficial."  How does this apply to your question?

2. What if you use astral projection to seek God.

3. What is the gift of  prophecy? You need to asnwer this question in response for me to continue.

[desert-rat]

One can believe in God , and see the Bible as a nice book , but not lit. truth .  There are some fear based church groups with some you tube videos on how evil astral projection .  The videos are not true and funny to watch . In the Bible God told Jashua to kill all the people and critters in Jeracho , a 1000 years or so later Jesus said all men were brothers and turn the other check , ect. God kinda did an about face there .  
p.s. this is one of the many videos from fear based church groups , it is funny to watch . It is beyond me why they would take this attude . 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTxheZlvZNU

[Siòn]

No.  Consider St. Paul's trip to the 3rd heaven in Acts - He said "Whether in the body or out of the body, I don't know."  -- Revelation by St. John -- All the prophetic dreams in the bible -- that's all projection.

The verses in the OT where it says -Don't conjure spirits (talk to the dead) may leave you wondering if you are going against the bible if you meet your dead grandmother in an AP or talk to any other spirits you may meet.

Looking into the history of what was going on with these spirit conjurers in the bible, it would seem that what they were doing bore no resemblance to what modern mediums/ AP practitioners do.  The former were trying to contact "the dead" which to them actually meant demons, not good human spirits.  They were doing this to get information for personal gain and were engaging in depraved rituals.  The latter want to contact their loved ones to say - Hey, are you there?  I love you.  How are you?  You OK?   --So one gives you a completely different vibe than the other.

Many modern Christian churches just take these talking to the dead scriptures at face value and don't look into the history.  The sources I looked at for the above were actually from modern Jewish scholars.  I figured they ought to know a thing or two about their own writings/heritage. (O.T.)  These faithful practicing Jewish people had no problem with modern mediumship which would include AP.  I found that interesting.

I'm a Christian (non-fundamentalist) and although I don't believe in the whole bible as you do, I love and respect the teaching of Jesus and many other passages as well.  I AP on a regular basis and have had beautiful connections to God through it that enrich my life so much.  

This is pretty much what I think as well. Most of the biblical prophetic visions appear to be AP. I've always wondered if Paul's "trip" to the third heaven was an AP (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) or possibly a near death experience (Acts 14:19-20) when he was stoned, left for dead and had to be revived by his friends.

[Bluefirephoenix]

St. Paul is not the exception. Take a look at the saints and their lives and the miracles associated with them. The oral tradition of the church particularly the desert fathers provide interesting study of how the gifts really work. It goes far beyond and much deeper than what you will  see in church because the way to this kind of spiritual depth and experience is largely solitary. ( you and the Father) Astral projection in my experience is kind of a side effect. It's not something I try to do deliberately, unless it's focused on being with the Father in unity.

Instead of asking other people for advice why are you not asking the Father who contains all the wisdom you need. He can also teach you how to go beyond your body. It's hard work, and largely solitary. I did this and he showed me. It was worth it... honestly he's not dead and is probably hoping you will go to him.

The old Christian term for astral projection is ecxtasy. the experience is called an ecxstatic experience.

[Siòn]

St. Paul is not the exception. Take a look at the saints and their lives and the miracles associated with them. The oral tradition of the church particularly the desert fathers provide interesting study of how the gifts really work. It goes far beyond and much deeper than what you will  see in church because the way to this kind of spiritual depth and experience is largely solitary.

So true. The church as a whole seems to be full of superficial spirituality and knows little or nothing of this stuff. At  least I hear a lot of scoffing from a lot of church folks I work with. Teresa of Avila is one of many saints who was able to go within and find her Source. Her levitations and other astral experiences are only the "fall out" of her unity with God.

[Bluefirephoenix]

I found that as you get closer to God you experience more of this stuff. I'm very fortunate in that the priest of our church is very open minded and knows about what has happened. The Anglican church does not have a literalist ( that is the bible is a perfect historial and spiritual document ) bent to it. I came from a fundimentalist background however, so I can speak with quite a bit of knowledge on the subject. I have heard quite a few very ignorant things in the church on the topic that basically call all the prophets, both ancient and modern heretics and demonics. If time had been taken to consider deeply the statements they were making a much brighter and wiser path could have been taken by the fundimentalist movment.

On the other hand pursuit of spiritual things in a solitary manner instead of going through a secondary means like the church or other  group of people yields far greater fruit. People like to follow the crowd and go on the well marked spiritual trails where they feel comfortable and protected from whatever devils, demons or deceptions they believe are out there.

Someone who says gee I wonder if I can develop spiritual sight hearing or conscious astral location and then pursues it in order to find God directly is on the rocky difficult and narrow path which leads to life. Herd mentality can kill spiritual development. It doesn't mean that you cannot associate with a church. I do. I'm very active. I'm a musician and layreader.  But I don't ascribe to the herd when it comes to spiritual development and skills that I'm interested in developing. Then it is me and God and that's it.

[Siòn]

My dad is a United Methodist pastor. Methodists are offshoots from the Anglican communion. United Methodist is an oxymoron. Some are literalists, others are ultra liberal --  mostly it's considered a liberal denomination. My dad has always encouraged finding your own spirituality as opposed to following the standard "party line." We are Welsh immigrants who settled in Oklahoma USA and have been greatly appreciative of Native American culture and spirituality. From them we learned what many of the Christian saints demonstrated centuries ago, God the Spirit is within you and it's a matter of developing that one on one relationship rather than following a bunch of external worship rituals, as helpful as some might be. And what we learn one on one is that love and service are more important than other things. Other spiritual gifts and "miracles" are a part of the fall out of being on purpose with love.

[PlasmaAstralProjection]

I use to be a christian and still hold a lot of christian beliefs. Though I don't take it as seriously.

The bible does talk about the silver cord. The silver cord is seen by some astral projectors. It's common in astral talk. It's a silver cord from the back connected to the body, and it follows you wherever you go in the astral to your body.

Here is the scripture.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Remember him--before the silver cord is severed, and the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, and the wheel broken at the well,"

Obviously this passage is talking about death. That when the silver cord is severed your body is free in the astral and doesn't come back to it's body via the silver cord connection.

Good luck.

[Bluefirephoenix]

My dad is a United Methodist pastor. Methodists are offshoots from the Anglican communion. United Methodist is an oxymoron. Some are literalists, others are ultra liberal --  mostly it's considered a liberal denomination. My dad has always encouraged finding your own spirituality as opposed to following the standard "party line." We are Welsh immigrants who settled in Oklahoma USA and have been greatly appreciative of Native American culture and spirituality. From them we learned what many of the Christian saints demonstrated centuries ago, God the Spirit is within you and it's a matter of developing that one on one relationship rather than following a bunch of external worship rituals, as helpful as some might be. And what we learn one on one is that love and service are more important than other things. Other spiritual gifts and "miracles" are a part of the fall out of being on purpose with love.

hmm. that would make you the ever terrifying preachers kid. Im Canadian but I am originally from the states.. Im with you on that.  You sre safest communicating directly with God rather than relying on second hand sources.. The bible contains wisdom if taken in proper context

[Siòn]

hmm. that would make you the ever terrifying preachers kid.

LOL shouldn't have given myself away! 

[BranStark]

here is the excerpt from the article i read some time ago

" Myth 9: Astral Projection changes a person's religious beliefs.

Truth: An in-depth study of 350 participants was conducted and published by Dr. Melvin Morse in 1992. According to that study, out-of-body experiences did not seem to alter one's religious beliefs. In fact, most people reported that their religious beliefs were confirmed and strengthened by their out-of-body experiences."

Love and Peace.

False. It changed mine. You cannot say majority equals everyone

[IsayWhaat]

False. It changed mine. You cannot say majority equals everyone

I'm not a theist even with everything happening. My life philosophy stays firm with Secular humanism.

[BranStark]

I'm not a theist even with everything happening. My life philosophy stays firm with Secular humanism.

First off, let's not generalise. The skeptic's statement leads to the premise that OOBEs are an illusion created by people's religious beliefs and after having an OOBE their belief is strengthened and so they get other OOBEs and so on.
This is simply not true. We both have the same atheist background, yet we have had an OOBE. It is true that some people, ie you, dismiss it as the product of over-imaginative mind. But then, this was my case as well. For quite some time after I had the OOBE I remained veeeeery skeptical. Yet, now I can see that this single event triggered a sieries of other events which eventually led me to know (notice that I don't use the word believe) there is something more than physical. I actually think the OOBE happened on purpose to set me (or rather violently kick me ) on a specific path.
It might be that what is now happening to you now is also on purpose.

By the way, secular humanism makes quite a few good points. But note that its picture is incomplete. For instance, while religion creates dogmas (I am strongly against these, and also I am not a member of any church nor intend to join any, as they usually strive for people's money and do not care about "divine" at all), it is also true that science creates dogmas of its own. And I am saying it as someone who is involved in science and who believes it to be a great way to look at the world, when stripped off of all its dogmatic beliefs (and there are quite a few).

[IsayWhaat]

First off, let's not generalise. The skeptic's statement leads to the premise that OOBEs are an illusion created by people's religious beliefs and after having an OOBE their belief is strengthened and so they get other OOBEs and so on.
This is simply not true. We both have the same atheist background, yet we have had an OOBE. It is true that some people, ie you, dismiss it as the product of over-imaginative mind. But then, this was my case as well. For quite some time after I had the OOBE I remained veeeeery skeptical. Yet, now I can see that this single event triggered a sieries of other events which eventually led me to know (notice that I don't use the word believe) there is something more than physical. I actually think the OOBE happened on purpose to set me (or rather violently kick me ) on a specific path.
It might be that what is now happening to you now is also on purpose.

By the way, secular humanism makes quite a few good points. But note that its picture is incomplete. For instance, while religion creates dogmas (I am strongly against these, and also I am not a member of any church nor intend to join any, as they usually strive for people's money and do not care about "divine" at all), it is also true that science creates dogmas of its own. And I am saying it as someone who is involved in science and who believes it to be a great way to look at the world, when stripped off of all its dogmatic beliefs (and there are quite a few).

Well, like I said, I'm not a theist. (You should notice I didn't write : I'm an atheist.) Meaning I still do not believe and probably never will, in everything religion has to offer. But, I do still believe in something. And that is the life philosophy Secular humanism offers. "Secular Humanism posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or a god." That is the main thing. Yes, science also has lots of bullsh*t in it, but rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience, and superstition as the basis of morality and decision making is what every human should do. Or at least, that's how I see it.

With that being said, I'm not necessarily rejecting existance of supernaturalism or religion. If this right now is all that this world has to offer, would suck really hard wouldn't it? Yet again, there is nothing to prove otherwise. You can't prove existance or, non-existance. I know for myself, I will not go down the religious path. Because religion sees "God" on completely wrong level. "God is The One, Universe, World, Nature, Truth and You. We are part of everything as everything is part of us. God is not merciful, God is cruel." Because God is not a damn man in the skies who dropped 10 commandments for people to follow. You can sugar-coat the previous definition of God, doesn't matter, fact is, such thing does not exist. And by those means I do not believe. I can be seen as an atheist from that side. For me, God is not a single being, saying Nature or Universe is like saying God in my dictionary. And from that side, as I can see Nature and "feel" it, I believe in it. Meaning I can say I believe in God. But perception of God for me is just Nature.

It is really hard to see it from that point because that means everything else religions holds; heaven, deceased, after life, goes right down the toilet.

[IsayWhaat]

As for OOBE, I don't know what to think of it. Or meeting other astral beings and stuff. Haven't seen or been there and I honestly, I don't want. The only thing I want to do is reach my inner self. If I could just scratch deep within myself and finally get over some stuff, would be more than enough for me. If I could just have one look at myself, my real self, you can take all of my "abilities" to do astral, oobe or even going lucid. I would trade it all right now. Right this moment, I wouldn't blink twice

[Volgerle]

The only thing I want to do is reach my inner self. If I could just scratch deep within myself and finally get over some stuff, would be more than enough for me. If I could just have one look at myself, my real self, you can take all of my "abilities" to do astral, oobe or even going lucid. I would trade it all right now. Right this moment, I wouldn't blink twice

A worthwhile endeavour. It's what other call the Higher Self (Oversoul, Divine Self, Subconscious, Total Self, etc) but it doesn't matter which label you attach. I've seen and experienced it amazingly a few times on different shades and occasions. And yes, it is worth the quest. Good luck with it.

[BranStark]

Well, like I said, I'm not a theist. (You should notice I didn't write : I'm an atheist.) Meaning I still do not believe and probably never will, in everything religion has to offer. But, I do still believe in something. And that is the life philosophy Secular humanism offers. "Secular Humanism posits that human beings are capable of being ethical and moral without religion or a god." That is the main thing. Yes, science also has lots of bullsh*t in it, but rejecting religious dogma, supernaturalism, pseudoscience, and superstition as the basis of morality and decision making is what every human should do. Or at least, that's how I see it.

With that being said, I'm not necessarily rejecting existance of supernaturalism or religion. If this right now is all that this world has to offer, would suck really hard wouldn't it? Yet again, there is nothing to prove otherwise. You can't prove existance or, non-existance. I know for myself, I will not go down the religious path. Because religion sees "God" on completely wrong level. "God is The One, Universe, World, Nature, Truth and You. We are part of everything as everything is part of us. God is not merciful, God is cruel." Because God is not a damn man in the skies who dropped 10 commandments for people to follow. You can sugar-coat the previous definition of God, doesn't matter, fact is, such thing does not exist. And by those means I do not believe. I can be seen as an atheist from that side. For me, God is not a single being, saying Nature or Universe is like saying God in my dictionary. And from that side, as I can see Nature and "feel" it, I believe in it. Meaning I can say I believe in God. But perception of God for me is just Nature.

It is really hard to see it from that point because that means everything else religions holds; heaven, deceased, after life, goes right down the toilet.

Oh, that is a very good stance, actually. Good luck with it!

Sorry for the misconception, I googled secular humanism and took a very quick look at its definition. That is where I drew my conclusion from. I know I shouldn't have done that, but I was in kind of a hurry.

[IsayWhaat]

A worthwhile endeavour. It's what other call the Higher Self (Oversoul, Divine Self, Subconscious, Total Self, etc) but it doesn't matter which label you attach. I've seen and experienced it amazingly a few times on different shades and occasions. And yes, it is worth the quest. Good luck with it.

Do you mind giving me few tips on how to do it? I've read you can reach it when you're lucid dreaming, you don't have to go astral. You can also say few details how was it and what changed afterwards, if you want of course. 

Oh, that is a very good stance, actually. Good luck with it!

Sorry for the misconception, I googled secular humanism and took a very quick look at its definition. That is where I drew my conclusion from. I know I shouldn't have done that, but I was in kind of a hurry.

No problem, I figured you didn't read

[PetMom]

I hope I'm not committing a newbie faux pas responding to a thread that hasn't been posted in for several months, but as a Christian, this is a question I've been dealing with.  Right now, it is my belief that AP isn't necessarily I say right now because my stance is that it is good to be open to standing corrected if I come to realize my understanding of scripture is erroneous.

Here's the thing:  while I do believe the Bible to be accurate and without error, we who read it are NOT without error.  Verses can be taken out of context, to, either deliberately or inadvertaintly, seem to say something that was not intended when it was written.  We also need to consider that language changes.  A lot of people have a tendency to treat the Bible like it was written yesterday.  It wasn't.  It didn't just fall off a turnip truck.  We need to interpret scripture based on what the words meant in the time period in which those scriptures were written.

As for astral projection, people often say it is bad and point to scripture that speaks against witchcraft.  Now, I'm no theological expert, but I've yet to be convinced that those verses have to do with AP.  Again I am not afraid to stand corrected but at this point I haven't been convinced that the Bible condemns AP. 

Not only that, but as has been pointed out in this thread there are scriptures that describe things that may be astral projection.  Like Paul's third heaven experience, indicating he didn't know if he was in his body or out, which implies it is possible to have been out of body.  Or like Revelation.  Now I can say one thing without doubt:  God is not going to use demonic means to communicate with people.

[ThaomasOfGrey]

Astral projection is fundamental to our existence. If the bible explicitly stated that projection is bad and we shouldn't do it, none of us even have the ability to comply. Dreams are a natural thing and I don't think we should or can stop them happening by will.

[IsayWhaat]

I hope I'm not committing a newbie faux pas responding to a thread that hasn't been posted in for several months, but as a Christian, this is a question I've been dealing with.  Right now, it is my belief that AP isn't necessarily I say right now because my stance is that it is good to be open to standing corrected if I come to realize my understanding of scripture is erroneous.

Here's the thing:  while I do believe the Bible to be accurate and without error, we who read it are NOT without error.  Verses can be taken out of context, to, either deliberately or inadvertaintly, seem to say something that was not intended when it was written.  We also need to consider that language changes.  A lot of people have a tendency to treat the Bible like it was written yesterday.  It wasn't.  It didn't just fall off a turnip truck.  We need to interpret scripture based on what the words meant in the time period in which those scriptures were written.

As for astral projection, people often say it is bad and point to scripture that speaks against witchcraft.  Now, I'm no theological expert, but I've yet to be convinced that those verses have to do with AP.  Again I am not afraid to stand corrected but at this point I haven't been convinced that the Bible condemns AP. 

Not only that, but as has been pointed out in this thread there are scriptures that describe things that may be astral projection.  Like Paul's third heaven experience, indicating he didn't know if he was in his body or out, which implies it is possible to have been out of body.  Or like Revelation.  Now I can say one thing without doubt:  God is not going to use demonic means to communicate with people.

I think astral projection should complement religion, not be against it. And it should go both ways. For you, religion should complement astral projection, not be against it.