John Titor and multiple timeline theory

[Bluefirephoenix]

 In the research presented by Farsight institute, indications that we live in a timeline which branches into a nearly infinite number of streams. Earlier I presented the video by Dr. Courtney Brown and Lyn Buchanan's remote viewing team. I'm training with one of Buchanan's students in CRV right now. Since ERV which is a form of remote viewing involves astral projection and the phasing techniques are derived from Monroes work and more advanced than what is usually seen around the internet I think it's a worthwhile pursuit. The John Titor story is another indication of how time actually works and how it can be manipulated or predicted.   Like Frank Kepple we don't really know who John is or where he came from. We don't know if it's a hoax. The information will be impossible to verify as the time streams constantly change. Extended Remote Vewing or Controlled remote viewing might help provide answers.

Here is the story I suggest also looking at the video from Farsight for comparison.http://www.johntitor.strategicbrains.com/ 

[Xanth]

I glanced over the page, it's impressive really.

Here's a question then... what, if anything, did John "predict" actually come true?

[Bluefirephoenix]

what does it mean if it didn't? Are the unfulfilled predictions indications of variance in time streams or is it an indication of a hoax. What is the most common assumption and is that assumption correct?

[Bluefirephoenix]

Here are some for you Xanth. But the question is... we all know when we are not focused in the physical that the past present and future intertwine... so why can't we predict the future accurately. We should be able to do that as easily as remembering the past.  http://www.strangerdimensions.com/2012/02/23/a-look-at-john-titors-most-popular-predictions/

[Xanth]

I do have to concede that this story MIGHT be true... I have to keep that option alive.
Obviously, the lack of proof to the contrary isn't proof of that contrary.  We know that to be true in regards to projection.

There's just too much about this story that screams hoax.
There's too much desire for this to be real... and not enough actual thought put into it.

Basically, I just don't believe reality works in the way that supports this as being a possibility.   

Edit: I also meant to say that, regardless of the holes, I do think this story is absolutely fascinating, but that fascination is also what's driving it at this point.

[astralm]

Well according to Titor the many worlds approach seems to be proven in his time period.  Although I am not a theoretical physicist I do enjoy the field as a hobby and based on Titor's paradox explanation it would make no sense for his government to send him back in time because he would simply be going back into another of the "many worlds".  Therefore by going back and getting the IBM 5100 and returning he would be returning to a different year 2036 and not his original one.  They would know this and not spend the money to create a time machine or at least they would not do it with the end goal of him bringing back a computer as his interacting with the past would shift him into a different version of reality and it would not be them who received the computer upon his return.

Personally I do not believe in the many worlds approach for the following reason.  It has to do with the paradox of infinity.  In the many worlds approach every outcome that can happen, does happen, and happens an infinite number of times.  If every outcome that can happen does happen, and each happens an infinite number of times, than all outcomes should be equally as likely.  We don't see that with quantum mechanics, we see very set probabilities.  I simply have never read anything which has been able to convince me that if every possibility happens an infinite number of times it would be possible for there to be anything by equal probabilities for all possible outcomes, which like I previously stated is not how it is.

[Xanth]

For myself... I like looking at THIS physical reality for clues to the nature of "reality" and "consciousness".  Since everything is consciousness.

This reality works on the basis that whatever happens, happens with the usage of the least amount of energy possible using the path of least resistance.  I don't think there's anything in nature which goes against this principle (and if there was, I'd love to hear it, honestly ).  The most direct way to see this in action is "electricity" and how it always takes the path of least resistance.

The concept of a multiverse where all "possibilities" are actualized is a horrible waste of time and energy and simply wouldn't exist.  It's like programming a 3D video game... when rendering a 3D model on a screen, you only draw that which is going to be actually seen, everything else, for lack of a better term, exists in data form only... until the viewer turns to actually LOOK at it, then it's rendered.  What doesn't get rendered are, for example, the polygons (which comprise the "thing" you're looking at) which are on the opposite side away from the observer.  If you were to actually process *EVERYTHING* that was within your field of vision... you'd crash your computer very quickly.

With the path of least resistance in mind... concepts such as the above multiple timelines theory simply can't exist. 

Although, as I noted above, I do have to keep an open mind though.  LoL

[astralm]

Xanth, I think what you just said ties directly into the other post on the double slit experiment as well and how it makes sense existence would be a probability wave until it is needed to be "rendered" into actual physical matter.  It appears to me, at least on this issue, you and I are coming at the same conclusion through similar logic though from completely different directions.

[Bluefirephoenix]

The point that I am trying to make is that in forecasting future events you see a lot of near misses. This happened with Tidor, Cayce, and the CRV experiments done by Farsight. If everything is consciousness as Campell indicates then forecasting the future should not be a problem. Tidor had a lot of near misses in his predictions. They didn't come true but only barely. We have 2 serious nuclear threats now that did not exist in 2001 for example.

Even if he is a hoax he may be psychic. If he was trying to warn us of problems that he saw psychically he found a good way to get some attention.

[Xanth]

The point that I am trying to make is that in forecasting future events you see a lot of near misses. This happened with Tidor, Cayce, and the CRV experiments done by Farsight. If everything is consciousness as Campell indicates then forecasting the future should not be a problem. Tidor had a lot of near misses in his predictions. They didn't come true but only barely. We have 2 serious nuclear threats now that did not exist in 2001 for example.

Even if he is a hoax he may be psychic. If he was trying to warn us of problems that he saw psychically he found a good way to get some attention.

A quick example of his predictions is one *I* made in regards to Canadian Federal Politics.  I predicted that Justin Trudeau was going to become the leader of the Liberals three years before it happened... even before the political analysts were talking about it as a possibility.  I followed the news and saw the trends happening.  For the most part, that's what we have here... an individual who follows the news and was able to follow and predict trends.  He's probably a stock broker of some kind.  Or if not, he should be. 

As for Tom Campbell... the problem with predictions in his model is "free will".  Everything is a possibility.
Predicting the future is definitely 100% possible.  I want to clear that up, it's just difficult because of the above.

Xanth, I think what you just said ties directly into the other post on the double slit experiment as well and how it makes sense existence would be a probability wave until it is needed to be "rendered" into actual physical matter.  It appears to me, at least on this issue, you and I are coming at the same conclusion through similar logic though from completely different directions.

Agreed. 

[astralm]

John Titor's model makes it so that he is both correct and incorrect in his predictions.  Many worlds says everything that will happen, does in some reality.  Therefore any prediction that is made, as long as it is a possibly, will happen in some reality, even if it is not our own.  If this theory is correct anyone can tell the future because anything you say that is a possibility will be fulfilled in one reality or another.  The idea of predicting the future in a many worlds model really makes no sense.  There would be no way of knowing if that future was going to play out in this reality or not.

[astralm]

I just thought of the brilliance of John Titor.  I haven't read all the actual posts so I don't know how he presented it but if he simply was telling what happened in his future, that doesn't mean he was predicting what would happen in ours.  By being covered under the many worlds argument it will never be possible to show he was a hoax.  Even if what he told us about his future doesn't happen, it simply is because we are not "his" future, this in no way could lead to the assumption he was not from a different 2036.  I don't know who he was or if it was hoax or real, however, putting that fail safe in against the future ever proving you were a hoax was brilliant.  Certainly he was very smart whoever he was.

[Bluefirephoenix]

That's a good prediction. I think he will gain prime minister. He has historical strength of the family name like the Kennedys in the US.

[BranStark]

A quick example of his predictions is one *I* made in regards to Canadian Federal Politics.  I predicted that Justin Trudeau was going to become the leader of the Liberals three years before it happened... even before the political analysts were talking about it as a possibility.  I followed the news and saw the trends happening.  For the most part, that's what we have here... an individual who follows the news and was able to follow and predict trends.  He's probably a stock broker of some kind.  Or if not, he should be.  

But what if a stock broker uses tapping into consciousness as a way to predict trends? Perhaps without even knowing it. What if you predicted who was going to be the new liberal leader using consciousness, while thinking it was a mere logic. Can we actually distinguish between these two approaches to predict what is going to happen or are they to some extent, or perhaps absolutely, the same thing? How can we know, when it is beyond shadow of doubt that we interact with the consciousness on a regular basis even unknowingly? Just a thought.

[Xanth]

But what if a stock broker uses tapping into consciousness as a way to predict trends? Perhaps without even knowing it. What if you predicted who was going to be the new liberal leader using consciousness, while thinking it was a mere logic. Can we actually distinguish between these two approaches to predict what is going to happen or are they to some extent, or perhaps absolutely, the same thing? How can we know, when it is beyond shadow of doubt that we interact with the consciousness on a regular basis even unknowingly? Just a thought.

I'm glad someone said that!   

It's more than "just a thought".  What do you think people mean when they say they use their "gut feelings"?

You ARE consciousness... as such, there is no separation between "you" and "consciousness".  You can't NOT tap into consciousness, because everything you are do/are IS consciousness. 
You are directly connected to all that is, because all that is... is you.  This is why you can, through projection, experience something you PERSONALLY have never experienced. 

It's like me telling you, at this very second to "stop being a human being".  You can't stop doing something that you are.

Make sense?

[BranStark]

I'm glad someone said that!   

It's more than "just a thought".  What do you think people mean when they say they use their "gut feelings"?

You ARE consciousness... as such, there is no separation between "you" and "consciousness".  You can't NOT tap into consciousness, because everything you are do/are IS consciousness. 
You are directly connected to all that is, because all that is... is you.  This is why you can, through projection, experience something you PERSONALLY have never experienced. 

Make sense?

Would not make sense not so long ago. It makes sense now. Fascinating when I look back at what a huge transition I went through in just very few years. I almost cannot recognise myself, literally. My thinking but also my behavior, which it direcrly translates into, are completely different. And I hope it has been changing for good. I think it is a good thing to realise this, at least for me, because it helps me to be less judgmental of people who this society judges by default, which obviously affects my feeling toward them automatically.
For instance, whenever I see the news and they present let's say a case of a murderer, I try not to judge the person because for all I know I might have been no better in a past life. And I know the person can change even in a few years, just like I did. Even though I was not a criminal or anything of that sort, I completely changed my life values and philosophy (from being a strict materialist into whoever the hell I am now ) and it still counts as a drastic change, I would say. But it is hard not feel hatred towards "that monster", especially when you see all the hateful reactions from people around you . The social programming we all go through is apparently strongly rooted in us. So I still need to try harder. BTW. This is one of the reasons I don't follow any mainstream media news anymore. I just find it to be a bunch of useless and/or fearmongery oriented crap, that leaves people feel desperate, helpless, angry or sad. And people with this emotional load are then easier to be manipulated with (by commercials, establishment...).
Also, I reached a point when I no longer argue with people who are closed to certain ideas (such as AP ). It is a waste of time and effort. And what is more, I know from this personal experience of mine that as close-minded as they might be, they can change their minds dramatically at any point in their lives (and they probably will). So why force it now, let them take their time, whenever they are ready.

But wow. I got hugely out of topic here. Sorry, I just let the ideas flow. Anyway, to get back to what Xanth wrote, me saying just a thought was more of a bonmot. I actually meant just my opinion. Good to hear I am not alone on this one.

[Kzaal]

To me time travel and to be on the same timeline as you were is not possible... as soon as you exit your present to go to the past, you instantly create a reaction that puts you in another world. You can't warn of stuff because it's already different. There's to many possibilities of parallel worlds and alternate worlds, divided by multiverse... The only person that I would trust if he told me that he came from the future would be my own self. If he told me everything etc, he'd need a really good reason to come see me tho.

Why would you time travel to try and prevent something to happen, when it has already happened in your world... or prevent a future event to happen. This doesn't make sense, if you prevent it, you destroy your original world. And even then you would simply disappear in that world and not come back.

Unless you have the Time Threads and the map of the universe and parallel universe/alternate universe in your pocket, tell me... how are you gonna do this? You need to think about that...

Here's the reason, the sun moves in the universe, all those planets follows the sun. If I would have a time travel machine, It would need to calculate: -Where it was positioned in the universe say 20 years ago, where it is positioned currently in the universe, where it would be in the universe 20 years later if you wanna go in the future etc...

Then there's still the time traveling thing that we'd still have to figure out, and figure how to not get stuck in another dimension/universe than our own. How can you be sure that you're in the right universe? How can you be sure that the people you are visiting are really in need of your help, and how can you be sure that they have not figured out the problems already?

And why would you risk everything for nothing? That's the real question. Might as well die and try to guide people with your spirit instead seems less complicated LOL.

I don't say it's not possible because I know that everything in this world can happen, but seriously... time travel to me seems like way too much problem in attempt to fix something. That and all the time altering effects that can take place, paradoxes etc...

I didn't read much of what John Titor wrote, to me, those who say traveled through time are usually labeled as someone who took way too many drugs lol.

[Bluefirephoenix]

kzal It's the jumping to conclusions that I want to look at closer. There is more to this. If it's a hoax why did he make the claims and go to so much trouble. Trolls are not usually that energetic. ... but everyone seems to only look at whether or not they think it's true without looking deeper into it.

[Szaxx]

Have a search for the time energy pump, you may find some relevant info at the J Naudin site.
Al Bielec has a lump of interesting info related to time travel. He's connected with the Philadelphia experiment.
Putting these two together looks a little more realistic than an overdose lol.
Find the non magnetic pocket watch experiment. This is very interesting.
Also Nicola Tesla built a clock that didn't suffer from where or when it was, make what you want of this. It may be on the internet.
My question is why was it made?
Its use would be a requirement in time travel as I see it.

[Bluefirephoenix]

Szaxx not only time travel but things like bilocation. Once you cross a certain threshold of development I think basically you loose the restrictions of the physical. I don't think it's common because the belief of the world's population reinforces those restrictions but I do think it's entirely possible.

[Kzaal]

Well, some people just like to "act" things out you know, sure there's some really good technology and stuff but, if someone is in his game and he's playing a character from the future he might go full house on it and invent stuff for people to believe him. I don't know, some people like to make their life hard just to have some people believe them.

[EscapeVelocity]

I have always considered the Titor posts an exposition of creative writing brilliance within the context of the new medium of the Internet. It can hardly be challenged, neither proven nor disproven. Intriguing and genius. Wish I had thought of it.

[Greytraveller]

Greetings all
The many worlds theory is Very messy. Believing that the entire Universe splits into two complete copies for every single decision made (including choices as trivial as going to McDonalds OR Burger King) makes no intuitive sense. This theory is unnecessarily complex and cumbersome.
It makes far more sense to believe that every single thought creates a separate one dimensional Time Line. And every action creates a separate two dimensional Time Plane. Each 1 D timeline and 2 D timeplane either
a) eventually reconnect back into and are absorbed by the 3 dimensional universe, Or
b) connect with other 1D timelines and 2D timeplanes.
These timelines and timeplanes can be remote viewed and can be visited during OBEs/astral projection.
Therefore John Titor need not be a time traveler from the future but could be a (government or private) remote viewer. The various events that Titor predicted could be various timelines and timeplanes that Titor either remote viewed or visited while out of body.
Several well known remote viewers have reported being able to see both into the future and the past using remote viewing. So maybe the entire John Titor mystery is another government black ops social experiment.

Regards 
Grey

[Tongo]

I do believe in the alternate timeline idea but I really don't even begin to entertain anything regarding the credibility of the John Titor story. It was obviously a hoax as none of his predictions came true.

[Xanth]

The many worlds theory is Very messy. Believing that the entire Universe splits into two complete copies for every single decision made (including choices as trivial as going to McDonalds OR Burger King) makes no intuitive sense. This theory is unnecessarily complex and cumbersome.

It's actually MUCH worse than even that...

Remember, it's not just whether a choice was made or not... any change in this reality, whether it be a molecule moved left instead of right would ALSO create an entire universe to split. 

When you take that into consideration, it then becomes beyond stupid what would be required for this kind of system to exist.