Anyone know what this is called?

[Mozia]

Hi Frank

I've got no Idea if this is even close, but what you describe sound like what mr Robert Bruce describes in his book "Astral Dynamics" as a super lucid dream, hope you have the book to go look into it.

Cheers!
Mozia

[kifyre]

Just from random stuff I've read, it seems like they're many ways to interact with other planes of consciousness than just the classic projection (which, I guess, is creating an energetic double). You've got remote eye projection, clairvoyance, and (probably) all sorts of subtle variations. But, like you said, you had a body and you interacted with your surroundings. Maybe you created a double in a different way (using a different combination of chakras??). And then you started to generate the normal double as well, which brought on the classic symptoms. RB states that it is *possible* to project more than one double, but I figured those were projected in the same way, one after another.

::shrug::

Mark

[kifyre]

One might want to follow Adrian's new thread in General Metaphysics:  "Remote Eye, RV, Bi-Location, Astral sight? " Let's see what people have to say. http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0> Also, there's a few chapters of a book on the astralpulse website [http://www.astralpulse.com] in the articles section called "Sense of Vision" that might provide some insight. (It doesn't go into much detail though.)

Mark

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by kifyre:
Just from random stuff I've read, it seems like they're many ways to interact with other planes of consciousness than just the classic projection (which, I guess, is creating an energetic double). You've got remote eye projection, clairvoyance, and (probably) all sorts of subtle variations. But, like you said, you had a body and you interacted with your surroundings. Maybe you created a double in a different way (using a different combination of chakras??). And then you started to generate the normal double as well, which brought on the classic symptoms. RB states that it is *possible* to project more than one double, but I figured those were projected in the same way, one after another.

::shrug::

Mark

Mark, it definitely did not feel like I was "remote". It was all very hands on just like the Astral is (provided you can keep the old emotions in check, of course). To all intents and purposes I'd say that I was on the Astral proper... but... I had none of the normal projection process, i.e. vibrations followed by a terrific acceleration.

What really confused me is I could bring on what I would call my normal pre-projection vibrations within the "whatever it was" I was experiencing.

Oh well, it's another morning tomorrow... another morning another mystery!

Thanks for the input you two.

Yours,
Frank  

[Rob]

Frank - it sound very much like a lucid dream. Was the reality there very...er...real? That is, solid, full waking consciousness, not able to fly, exactly like the physical. If so thats a WILD - like a class of lucid dream, which you go into with a step from normal waking consciousness. Good fun, I cannot unfortunately get into them at will like you but one day heh. The reason there were no vibrations going in is because it was not an out of body experience, more an internal one. Therefore no energetic double needs to be created, without all the strong energy sensations caused by this (vibrations).
Oh, I have managed to have OBEs in a dream - twice one night. I got vibrations and everything, although not as strong as when done in the normal world. I am not sure about this, but it could simply be the mind remembering the vibrations from the real world and recreating the sensations. Or it could mean I was actually projecting in a dream, I dunno!

[SteppenWolf]

Frank -

Sounds to me like it's a really advanced type of remote viewing.  However because you weren't given a target, you just ended up viewing an astral area.  From reading lots of RV experiences that's how it sounds to me - as many of them get a lot deeper into the place than the training indicates.

Eg check this out:
http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/1973JupiterRVProbe.html

Just most people don't get to that level and have to work with vaguer data coming through.  However the very best feel as if they are there - or rather in two places at once.

Out of interest - are you a bit of a natural or have you just done a ton of training (yoga, etc) and if so - what training have you done?

Cheers,
RIchard http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

[alfa_33au]

Frank,

Could it be, that you were having an obe while lucid dreaming.  Some say the two are different, but i feel unless you are conscious upon leaving, you can end up anywhere without the leaving sensations.

I had a an experience where i just went to sleep,was not attempting to obe, then i  recall my feet operating the pedals of my car (like the start of a dream), as i tried to sync the clutch and accellerator and the car moved off, i started to become conscious and found myself in bed trying to separate from my body, loud ringing began and i knew then what was happening.

Unfortunately, i could not dislodge my head area and i was at a 45 degree angle from my body. I became very tired trying.

My question is, i have never heard of  or considered trying this car pedal method.  Came out of the blue.  Is someone or something helping me?

Thanks Paola

[Morphindil]

Frank,

You say that you have experienced this state by slowing your normal projection process down.  It seems reasonable to assume that in your  normal projection process you are presented with these visons as well but at a much faster rate.  Perhaps these visions are areas of the astral that are being presented to you for your consideration and normally another part of you is making the choice as to the destination, rather than your conscious mind.

By slowing the process down, you may have tuned into a sort of astral preview channel.  If any of the visions pique your interest, you can then investigate them further in a pseudo-projection and then finally, fully project into one.  I guess the test for this would be to continue the process all the way through and see if the vision destination is the same as the full projection destination.  


Morph

[Veo]

Frank,
Your description sparked a memory of what Robert Monroe talked about in Ultimate Journey. He described his later experiences of Astral projection as more like just 'phasing in' and 'phasing out' his awareness. My recollection is that he said he never experienced the traditional exit sensations any longer.

This also reminds me of a lot of reading I have done about some Indian spiritual masters. It has been described that they are so in-tune with the spiritual/astral dimensions. It is simply a choice of whether they choose to place their attention in the physical or other spiritual dimensions.

My sense is that the astral dimensions are around us and available to us at all times once we learn to expand our awareness. You are doing some awesome work. I look forward to hearing more about it.

Veo

[Frank]

Thank you for your continued input, it is very much appreciated.  

First, I'm not at all sure whether I did used to see these kinds of visions, though at a faster rate. In the sense that now I am slowing down the projection process I can focus on them rather than the visions being just a complete blur. To me, what I am experiencing is a separate and totally different Physical-exit sensation.

The reality, as such, is very real. But no different to the sense of Astral  reality present following my "normal" shooting-off exit. (You see, that's the confusing part.) Also, it does not feel like I am viewing the scene "remotely" like I was looking at something in the distance through binoculars on the Physical; which is how I understand the term remote-viewing to be. I am definitely there and can interact with my surroundings in just the same way as in what I would call  a normal Astral experience.

The other day, for example, I found an elderly lady who could see me and was willing to chat. She was standing on the pavement looking at a particular house. The street was lined with a row of small terraced houses and the one she was looking at looked run-down. I approached, stood next to her, and she asked me if I had known "him". I apologised saying that I didn't and could she please explain. I learnt that the house had belonged to a man who had been murdered. We started walking slowly along and came to the end of the terrace; which was a corner shop that sold general hardware. The lady explained the shop had belonged to the murdered man. The new owner was related to him and he had inherited the shop upon his death. Many people suspected that the new owner was in some way connected with the other man's death. I thanked the lady and exited to make some notes.  

To all intents and purposes, this was a normal Astral experience. The only difference being I had somehow just "stepped into it".

I have only practised this a few times as it is rather tricky for me to do. But I learnt  there is a definite feeling of a "shift" of awareness. First time I described it, I said it was like stepping into it. Veo has now described it perfectly. Yes, it's like a "phasing in".

It does not feel like a Lucid Dream. Problem is, I am plagued with such things. I know exactly how Robert Monroe felt when he talked about just wanting to sleep when he would often automatically project out of sheer habit. Well, that's the same with me and Lucid Dreams; to the extent where I've forgotton what it is like just to simply go to sleep and wake up the next day.  

The experience of "phasing in" is not like drifting off into a Lucid Dream. The whole process takes about a second. It's like some kind of light comes on in my mind and... zooom... I have a feeling of making fast but tiny shifting movement. After which I'm standing within the Astral. Well, as I say, to all intent and purposes it feels like the Astral, But, naturally, I'm not making any snap judgements. The process I find very tricky but I'm working on refining it further.

Another thing I have noticed is since the first "shifting" experience I have started to "hear" things. No, I'm not going mad, I promise!

I've heard the term "clairaudience" before and never really knew what it meant. But I've had several instances lately where I've just suddenly realised that I've been listening to a conversation. It's a bit of a weird sensation and if anyone has come across such a thing before I'd be grateful for their input.

I'm used to all the pops, bangs, knocks and ripping noises that are generally heard as a part of the projection process. So such things hardly ever distract me now. But just recently I've found myself relaxing and, quite by accident, I've let my sense of conscious awareness drift where, suddenly, I've found myself listening to people talking... exactly as if I were overhearing a conversation on the Physical.

Problem is, I'm finding my sense of conscious awareness tends to "snap me out of it" in the same way it does when feeling the vibrational state for the first few times. But I'm hoping that, with practice, I can get my sense of conscious awareness used to the idea. Following which I hope to become more attuned to what is being said. Right now I'm only getting snippets of this and that, which don't add up to anything with any real meaning.

I'll buy the Ultimate Journey book and see what it says. Maybe I can recognise something that will lead me in the right direction.

Yours,
Frank

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by SteppenWolf:
Frank -

Sounds to me like it's a really advanced type of remote viewing.  However because you weren't given a target, you just ended up viewing an astral area.  From reading lots of RV experiences that's how it sounds to me - as many of them get a lot deeper into the place than the training indicates.

Eg check this out:
http://www.biomindsuperpowers.com/Pages/1973JupiterRVProbe.html

Just most people don't get to that level and have to work with vaguer data coming through.  However the very best feel as if they are there - or rather in two places at once.

Out of interest - are you a bit of a natural or have you just done a ton of training (yoga, etc) and if so - what training have you done?

Cheers,
RIchard http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile.gif" border=0>

Thanks for the link. I find all the science stuff very interesting.

As for training, no, none whatsoever. I said in one of my early posts that I haven't got a psychic bone in my body.

The way I got into the subject was from reading books. (I have always been an avid reader ever since early childhood.) The first book I read, on this type of subject matter, which I came across quite by accident, was in the 70's, entitled: Your Telecult Power (I forget now who wrote it).

I considered the whole thing to be mystical nonsense, to be honest. And even to this day, despite having had hundreds of Astral adventures, the moment a conversation starts to dwell on anything remotely "mystical" my mind automatically switches off.

One day, years ago, I happened to be walking along a local street and noticed a new bookshop had opened. It was one of those "New Age" places that sold crystals, Tarot cards, et al, as well as books. In the window was Monroe's J.O.B. It was mere curiosity that made me buy it. I got more curious still and bought several other books.  

My curiosity developed to the point where I simply wanted to find out, for myself, whether all that I had read was true... or just a load of tosh. So I thought, right, I'm going to genuinely give it a go and see what happens. If something comes about then it is genuine. If not then it's tosh.

I wasn't really all that bothered either way. As I say, it was curiosity more than anything. Well, in the event, something did come about (much to my surprise as it happened).

Looking back, I think it was the fact I was setting out to satisfy my curiosity about obe's that was, to a large degree, responsible for my eventual success. Nowadays, I hear of people's failed attempts and it comes across to me, quite strongly, that they are trying too hard.

I liken this to areas of Physical life where it is generally best not to come across to others as being too "needy". Like, the moment you need some "thing" urgently, others quickly latch-on and push the price up. It's the same with relationships, too. I've known guys in the past who were so desperate to get into a meaningful relationship, and couldn't. But nothing is more off-putting to a woman than a "needy" guy.

It seems to be there are areas of life where the more you try, the more the "thing" escapes or resists you. I notice this effect a lot from my experience in riding and schooling horses.

Yours,
Frank

[alfa_33au]

Frank,

I have heard voices and conversation on a few occassions, upon leaving the body.  I thought it may have been a recording, so to speak,of the days events,  
Told one woman i heard once, to shut up, in doing that, they disappeared.
Then the vibrations began.  
So the voices seem to come just before the vibrations.  hmmm.

Any insight anyone?

Paola

[Frank]

Again, thank you for your continued input. On the contrary, I find all positive obe concepts most interesting. Today I ordered the two Monroe books Far Journey and Ultimate Journey which I should receive tomorrow.

I happened to read the snippets on Amazon.com, of Ultimate Journey, and a couple of things Monroe said, just in the few pages available, aroused my curiosity quite a lot. What Monroe later talks about, which didn't really come across in JOB, is the idea of "thought" being a primary energy. This is something I discovered in my early Astral experiences, but have not yet been able to really make sense of it all in a more "advanced" sense.    

At the same time I ordered the Gateway series CD's which I'm going to look into. I'm not a great fan of all this audio stuff but, by the same token, I cannot have any real opinion on the matter unless I experience it for myself.

Yours,
Frank

[Adrian]

Greetings Frank and everyone!

The other book people talk alot about next to Astral Dynamics is "Adventures Beyond the Body", Wiliam Buhlman.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0062513710/qid=1020190709/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_2_4/202-9683165-7103828


I don't have this publication myself - does anyone else have it, an can offer an opinion?

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Frank]

As regulars will know I've been practising slowing down my normal projection process; which used to consist of merely shooting off and landing within the Astral at some random place. But I have been having good success in slowing things down. Just recently I have been experiencing a state of mind I do not fully recognise.

Okay, the state of mind I need someone to please identify is, as follows:

I allow my mind to become still and let my sense of conscious awareness drift upwards and forwards to what I recently named my Remote-Visual Interface (or RV-Interface for short). This is the spot on the forehead that mystics, et al, commonly call a "brow chakra". Once my sense of conscious awareness connects, I begin to see images in my mind. I found I can "step into" these images In the sense that I can walk around and look at whatever is going on. This morning I stepped into a street-scene. There was a road, lined with buildings, and populated by people. I found I could walk around and examine various bits of street furniture, etc.

In fact, it felt like I was on the Astral. But I had experienced none of my usual projection feelings, i.e. no vibrations, no feelings of shooting off at high speed, etc. Also, I did a little experiment where, during the experience, I thought about letting my sense of conscious awarenes connect to my Remote-Projection Interface (RP-Interface) which I believe mystics call the "crown chakra". As I did so I began to experience familiar pre-projection vibrations - whilst I was actually within this state. So I was definitely not projecting in my normal sense of the word. What I also noticed is my physical body seemed to be in a different resting state. It was definitely more awake than it normally would be if I were projecting. To all intents and purposes it did feel like I was projecting because I could engage in my surroundings; and it felt totally different to what I would call a Training Ground experience, i.e. where the images are solely manifest from the viewer's emotional energy.

Pointers anyone?

Yours,
Frank

     

[Pauli2]

The other day, for example, I found an elderly lady who could see me and was willing to chat. She was standing on the pavement looking at a particular house. The street was lined with a row of small terraced houses and the one she was looking at looked run-down. I approached, stood next to her, and she asked me if I had known "him". I apologised saying that I didn't and could she please explain. I learnt that the house had belonged to a man who had been murdered. We started walking slowly along and came to the end of the terrace; which was a corner shop that sold general hardware. The lady explained the shop had belonged to the murdered man. The new owner was related to him and he had inherited the shop upon his death. Many people suspected that the new owner was in some way connected with the other man's death. I thanked the lady and exited to make some notes.  

To all intents and purposes, this was a normal Astral experience.

This is one of the rare cases where Frank mentions details about an astral experience (without any visible guide). What puzzles me is:

1. A murder has been committed in the astral! A father-murder - daddy killer!
2. Someone is related in a way to inherit someone else! Father - Son!

This must be the first time I've heard of a father - son relation in the astral in something that seems to be F 24 - F 25. Have anyone else encountered this, where the father - son relation is not a result of something previous physical life relation? The alternative is of course that this is another product from the Master of Focus 22, but I would like to wait with that conclusion as a last resort.

I'm used to all the pops, bangs, knocks and ripping noises that are generally heard as a part of the projection process. So such things hardly ever distract me now. But just recently I've found myself relaxing and, quite by accident, I've let my sense of conscious awareness drift where, suddenly, I've found myself listening to people talking... exactly as if I were overhearing a conversation on the Physical.

When you phase in Frank style, do you hear astral noise or astral voices? I thought those sounds didn't occur if you phased?

[Xanth]

This is one of the rare cases where Frank mentions details about an astral experience (without any visible guide). What puzzles me is:

1. A murder has been committed in the astral! A father-murder - daddy killer!
2. Someone is related in a way to inherit someone else! Father - Son!

This must be the first time I've heard of a father - son relation in the astral in something that seems to be F 24 - F 25. Have anyone else encountered this, where the father - son relation is not a result of something previous physical life relation? The alternative is of course that this is another product from the Master of Focus 22, but I would like to wait with that conclusion as a last resort.

One possibility is that this entire scenario's source could have been the "elderly lady", since it's really the only "encounter" in it.  Meaning, the house where the murder was and the people involved were memories of her.  In which case, the "murder" is actually the secondary plot to the scene.

Another possibility is that the scenario is just his metaphor for what was actually going on.  What that metaphor is/was, we can't know without asking for Frank's own input from it as it's personal and individual to him.

When you phase in Frank style, do you hear astral noise or astral voices? I thought those sounds didn't occur if you phased?

They're experiences that can still with Phasing.

[Pauli2]

Hmm... You are right Xanth. It could have been a regular F 23 experience. Frank doesn't mention seeing anyone else (or if any such "person" could have been a thought-form either).

[Xanth]

Hmm... You are right Xanth. It could have been a regular F 23 experience. Frank doesn't mention seeing anyone else (or if any such "person" could have been a thought-form either).

There are several possibilities... none of which really matter though.