Projecting to a Black Hole

[Hephaestus]

quote:Originally posted by LogoRat

Funny...

I will not judge your intelligence, but that post really made me realize that some people read too much instead of learning it while by personal experience in the astral.

Maybe i will do a foolish decision to jump into a black hole when i am AP'ing, and maybe not.
The only way i can find out is to try it.
For me, seeing people write about that something is dangerious and stuff really makes wounder why.
And all that excrement makes me wounder why people are saying stuff like that.

bovine excrement i say.
If a friend from the astral would comeup to me upfront and say " excrement maan, i was just at the blackhole over there, and i couldnt come back up, i was stuck there for like 200yrs in total blackness, it was a nightmare" I would trust him and seek more knowledge before trying it.

But if some dude on a forum that is not a close friend tell me that it is dangerious, that dude may also hinder people from going there so he can have his experience by himself.

Maybe inside a blackhole or beyond it is a very nice place..very very very nice place.
Maybe it is soo fun and exiting that some people try to make people stay away so they can have it for themselves.

Maybe they get a kick to scare people from the most amazing and great things.

Maybe there is a gateway to jump to areas where you usually wouldnt get to without the proper knowledge.

If someone have tried to get close to one Black hole or even been in one, please post.

ok, its your choice to learn through just your own trying or your very close friends trying, but there is a lot of things that can be learned by reading other peoples experiences on what they have done aswell as learning from your own experiences and your close friends experiences. Theres a lot of information out there available which can expand your knowledge, people can and have experienced things you 'may' never experience yourself even if you tried, thats the type of knowledge you aquire through other people around the world.
If everyone decided to go jump off a very high cliff just to experience it for themselves then there'd be a lot of dead people around. There are usually warning signs saying there's cliff ahead - its your 'choice' whether you acknowledge it or ignore it.
Nobodys going to be stood at the cliff edge who is going to stop you jumping over no matter what, the sign is there instead and you could say its giving you a choice. Choice is a gift, use it how you wish.

[Randøm_]

LogoRat, maybe there is a good reason why there's a lack of responses to people who actually projected to a black hole ... like, umm, because they can't. I don't know anyone who fell into a lava pit and lived to tell their tale, either. The benefit of discy=ussion theories in a forum is to arrive to a logical colclusion based on what is known or deduced. The bottom line is every choice you make is your decision, and the consequences, if any, will reveal themselves upon your endeavours.

I once had a cat that refused to acknowledge the dangers of on-coming vehicles habitually. One day she choose to test fate. I miss her.

I'm inclined to agree with Hephaestus, and fail to see what part of the presented statements could cause you to question intellect.

The one question I do have is regarding the effect of a black hole stretching over a significant distance with a graduating attraction. Perhaps if one were to approach it within a safe distance, they could notice an impact on the self without it being a point of no return. then again, maybe not.

I'd also like to mention that the person who intended to try it had someone else use his account to post a message saying he was in a coma-like state. I find that (using the same account) incredibly suspicious, but the turn of events also makes the thought of an attempt slightly less promising.

[Tayesin]

There is another Black Hole in our Galaxy.  Last year I read about a super-massive BH that plays the role of Intergalactic Hoover. It circulates in a wavy, up and down motion through the Galaxy. Sorry, don't have the details of the Mag, etc.

I have a very basic understanding of the whole picture described by both sides of Physics research. Yet I understood what has been written in this thread so far.  So I ask this question, if a BH sucks all energy and matter into it's event horizon and only certain wavelengths are radiated from it, would it also effect the astral body, as it too is energy?  

If the theoretical answer was yes, then perhaps it isn't a good idea to go racing off to check it out for yourself.  Maybe what is needed is for some brave soul to do it so the rest of us will know, LOL. Any volunteers?

Love always.

[RandomName]

If a black hole is created and has a set gravity pull, yet can pull light, one might assume that you could be hurt. But think of it this way. The astral cord(silver cord) binds you to your body, and according to theory, cannot be broken. If this is the case, and your astral body is destroyed, you should warp back to your body.But then again, your astral body may never die, but simply have your physical pull it back in for an emergency. if that is the case, then what if this black hole is stronger than your bodys pull?

Above said is assuming 2 different ideas.


Now if we focus on the idea that the black hole is a PHYSICAL thing, and possibly has no secondary form in the astral, then the black hole cannot harm the astral body in any form.
IF THE BLACK HOLE HAS A METAPHYSICAL SIDE......your as good as dead if you get near it, because your astral body, if it cannot die, but only be pulled, then the gravity of the hole may be stronger than your physical body.



Any ideas? Comments?

[LogoRat]

Its a difference between jumping from a cliff physically and jumping from a cliff in the astral.

Its like saying that if someone would swing a sword through your astral body, you would die from it because you cannot hold that imaginary structure of the body.

[Hephaestus]

quote:Originally posted by LogoRat

Its a difference between jumping from a cliff physically and jumping from a cliff in the astral.

Its like saying that if someone would swing a sword through your astral body, you would die from it because you cannot hold that imaginary structure of the body.

It would appear my analogy went straight over your head

[LogoRat]

Well, it sucked!

[Hephaestus]

quote:Originally posted by LogoRat

Well, it sucked!

Your head sucked?
Thats pretty Weird.

Let me clarify my analogy:
Cliff = Black hole
Person jumping over cliff = A person in their astral form going into a black hole.

Simply put, you have said people shouldnt say it may be dangerous unless they've been into a black hole because it puts others off - I say you dont have to have been into one to realise theirs a possibility it could be very dangerous, if nobody gives their negative opinion on the matter from knowledge they've gained from other experiences or education then the person wanting to go into a black hole will think 'oh it must be 100% safe to do it because nobody says it might be dangerous'.  What if they end up going in and cant get back out? it would be partly our fault for not expressing the point there are possible dangers.

People here have given their opinions that it may be dangerous which in my anaology = the warning sign theirs a cliff ahead.
Also dont forget some people have said it will be ok to go into one.
So there we have it, a positive and negative opinion on the matter - giving the person wanting to go into a black hole the 'choice' to go in or not. In the end its down to the person to decide.
We shouldnt sit back and just let people with a positive opinion answer just so the person will go in, thats rather one sided dont ya think, and our negative opinion could actually be save a person, ya never know.

My question to you is, do you want to go into a black hole? you have read the positives and the negatives. what have you decided?

[LogoRat]

I will explore the blackhole when i get the chance.

[AstralTym]

i like the posts earlier saying that you can't believe everything you read.  i remember early on i had a big fear of possessions while projecting because of stuff i read, and also read a lot of different theories on how to project.  through all this, i honestly i wish i had just read Bruce's book and then gone at it without asking anyone how, but just seeing how i was progressing.  Therefore, I think the physical/metaphysical analogy is pretty dead on - we don't know if it extends into astral, and if it does the people that have tried to enter one can't tell us.  personally, i wouldn't dare enter one, and i don't think it's worth taking chances like that even if they do turn out to be ok.  it's not worth risking your life, astral or physical or both, just to prove something.  whoever said that you could stand outside and watch other astral beings go into it had the right idea.  however, just because i say that doesn't mean you can't go ahead and try - i mean, reading everyone's theories on what "could" happen is pretty nerve-racking, and now i'm thinking about what if i accidently project to one the next time i get out?  it's that kind of negative encouragement that is a restriction on projecting, and i encourage no one to take everything they hear about OBE's to heart.  everyone experiences it different, and there are a million different ways to project.  perhaps if you projected a certain way or into a certain astral plane, the black hole wouldn't affect you.  or maybe it doesn't matter how you project, who knows.  i could go on with more theories, but i don't honestly have an opinion either way.  the point of this post is to let you know not to listen to everything you hear.  i'm pretty sure i rambled a lot as well, so sorry for that

[beavis]

Tayesin "if a BH sucks all energy and matter into it's event horizon and only certain wavelengths are radiated from it, would it also effect the astral body, as it too is energy?"

Light is never radiated from a black hole. You are talking about "hawking radiation". Its when the gravity causes stuff to split before it gets to the event horizon. Part of it goes in and part away from the hole.

[LogoRat]

Kinda funny, the energy that the blackhole produces while spinning around.....
Wouldnt that kill itself, if the blackhole swallow everything, then it would swallow that energy too and collaps.

[Randøm_]

quote:Originally posted by LogoRat

Kinda funny, the energy that the blackhole produces while spinning around.....
Wouldnt that kill itself, if the blackhole swallow everything, then it would swallow that energy too and collaps.

Black holes are quite interesting creatures. I believe you may find the concept intriguing if you research. They can't collapse because they are already collapsed. They don't generate energy (at least nothing that is measurable on the outside of it). The only thing that could be considered as energy comes in the form of a vacuum and gravitational attraction (based on its mass/density). Their existence isn't exactly proven, but rather logically deduced by the orbits of the bodies surrounding them, spiraling inwards. What we call a black hole is actually a phenomena that must exist in some manner but breaks down the very principles which *prove* their existence as one approaches its naked singularity. I might also add that physics also breaks down upon trying to understand the big bang; everything can be calculated up until the moment of the big bang.

Perhaps this is because time (which is not a constant) occurs at different rates, contingent upon the gravitational attraction of the "space" its being measured in. Gravity requires mass to exist. Hence, before the big bang there was no mass, thus, no time.

I've read on this board that someone re-entered the self at a different time. My best advice is, if possible, to master time travel and understand it before embarking on a journey that defies everything we know about physics. I can tell from your words that your understanding of black holes is rather incomplete. Would it not be wise to understand the beast you wish to challenge? To equate this with the afore mentioned analogy of cliffs ... before jumping off a cliff, one could at least peer over it to see what's below. There is a fine line between being bold and reckless.

I'm NOT telling you what you should do, merely stating my approach to reasoning about two fascinating concepts. After all, that is why we are all reading this discussion.

good luck no matter what you choose.

[Tao]

http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Earth
try this link - i love it !

[Radha]

I know of at least two remote viewers who have entered black holes.  The only thing seemed to be it was hard to try to describe what they percieved while in there.

[TorosDead]

Interesting that this should come up, because I have often thought about this.  I'm not sure if it would be safe or not to project to a black hole, because though still in the physical universe, a blackholes abilities defy all physics of this dimension.  Not even light is safe from a black hole, which is purely energy in itself.  Also, Einstein theorized that if one could survive a black hole they would be transported into a seperate dimension (this is known as the Einstein/Rosen bridge).  With this in mind there is reason to believe that an astral form could in fact be affected by a black hole... but how I am unsure of.  If you're gutsy enough maybe you can be the first to find out and let us know what happens!  I guess if we don't hear from you again then we will know what happened []

[Tayesin]

quote:Originally posted by beavis
Light is never radiated from a black hole. You are talking about "hawking radiation". Its when the gravity causes stuff to split before it gets to the event horizon. Part of it goes in and part away from the hole.

Thanks Beavis, I knew that it was some form of radiation but was unsure of exactly what. Can you clear up this query as well please:- Is this form of radiation what scientists looked for to detect black holes, after Steven Hawking theorised about the existence of this radiation?  And, does this form of radiation not fit into the mould of having a wavelength, or does it belong to the category of quanta? That's the right word for describing the 'parcel' isn't it?  Sorry bout all the questions, I am very curious to understand as much as possible on this subject. Thanks.

quotes by Radha and Paul
"I know of at least two remote viewers who have entered black holes. The only thing seemed to be it was hard to try to describe what they percieved while in there."
"My understanding of Remote Viewing is they're not actually there but just accessing information. I'm curious what their descriptions were."
/qoutes.

Radha, I'm not surprised, as everything we know, physics and possibly philosophy too, break down and no longer apply.

Paul, Yes I have the same understanding. It is apparently a portion of their awareness/attention that is projected to gather information both visual and subtle.  And I too am very curious about what their descriptions were. Thanks for bringing that aspect to light.

Love always.

[RandomName]

I don't mean to be the uneducated person here in terms of astralogy and the works, but I do have a question. Seeing as how black holes have extreme gravity, some people are saying, since it effects light, which is an energy, its a possiblity that they are actually PULLed inside and unable to escape. If the body cannot recall its projected double, then wouldn't you just be stuck in there? Secondly, lets goto Newtons laws for a minute or two. The law that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If the body metaphysically pulls for the astral body, yet it is being held, then eventually the body would MOVE ITSELF as a result of its own power, but then again, what if the etheric body and all its energy centers were to be ripped out from your physical being? I have noticed that a lot of these areas are untouched. Rather than debating about it, START THINKING MORE.

I can list several other possibilities that could be true or false, but remain as so until one of you can give a legit answer. Stop debating what you already know, rather go find something for yourself for a second or two and give YOUR ideas, not einsteins. Einstein was an intellegent man, but suffered because he was on a higher level than most people, and when he thought based on others, he started making Fs in school. Plainly put, THINK FOR YOURSELF. I want to hear some more thoughts people, this is fun, don't spoil it []

[Radha]

Hi Paul, Tayesin;
In my own experience with CRV I would say your point of view is that of the body, except maybe when bi-locating occurs.  In ERV the point of view is not in the body.  
When a person does RV of any type, my experience has been that their concepts of REAL get knocked around and re-adjusted a bit.  
Re the BH, I'll see if I saved any of the session records we did and see if I can get permission to put some of the descriptors in here.
I think that threads like these and the ensuing discussions do a great deal to help people get more curious and hopefully, brave enough to try OBE, RV etc and learn some of these things first hand.
I, for one, really enjoy reading the posts and getting the different ideas I find.  Makes me think.
Radha

[Faceless]

Hiya people, I have a few things to say on this subject.

Firstly its something I've been wondering about for a while now but never bothered asking. Firstly I have heard that BH's give off no light at all and are so dense they are smaller than a pin head, which in my opinion would make one extremely hard (impossible maybe?) to actually find (although I could have heard wrong).

To the people who say that a BH can affect an astral body because it can affect light (which is, like the astral body, pure energy) I would like to say that sounds very reasonable, but aren't you missing one very simple thing? Doesn't regular matter also affect light by stopping it dead in its track? Yet matter has no effect at all on an astral body. Both BH's and matter affect light so I seriously doubt that can be taken into account.

Also when someone projects, I doubt it matters very much what happens to the astral body, because that won't affect the physical/etheric body/mind in any way. The astral body is created from nothing at the start of the projection and consiousness is only copied into it. If the astral body and the astral mind were to be somehow destroyed that would just leave the physical body in regular sleep, ready to wake up with no memories of the event. Another astral body can be created and consiousness projected into as many times as you like.

If you were to project into a black hole and (I here) time were to stop, you'd be stuck there forever wouldn't you? But the energy of your astral body wouldnt last forever would it so your not in any danger right? If time is frozen its likey that the energy WOULD last forever, but only for that astral consiousness. Your physical is still running in regular time back on Earth and if it wakes up your astral body/consiousness (it it hasn't been destroyed) would be pulled back from whatever time/dimension it happens to be in like always.

Just my thoughts on the subject [8D]

[beavis]

TorosDead "because though still in the physical universe, a blackholes abilities defy all physics of this dimension."

Black holes do not break the rules of relativity. Down with newton!!

Tayesin "Thanks Beavis, I knew that it was some form of radiation but was unsure of exactly what. Can you clear up this query as well please:- Is this form of radiation what scientists looked for to detect black holes, after Steven Hawking theorised about the existence of this radiation?"

Thats part of what they used. They also use the movements of stars around a black object to estimate its mass.

"And, does this form of radiation not fit into the mould of having a wavelength, or does it belong to the category of quanta? That's the right word for describing the 'parcel' isn't it?"

I dont know what kind of radiation it is.


Psi "Seeing as how black holes have extreme gravity, some people are saying, since it effects light, which is an energy, its a possiblity that they are actually PULLed inside and unable to escape."

Light always follows the curves of space. It never goes outside the current "light cone". In a black hole, the most extreme direction of all light cones point at least a little to the middle. Astral bodies are not confined by space.

"If the body cannot recall its projected double, then wouldn't you just be stuck in there?"

Once I killed my astral body with a sword. I did not become stuck.

"for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If the body metaphysically pulls for the astral body, yet it is being held, then eventually the body would MOVE ITSELF as a result of its own power,"

Easier said than done. Try telekinesis and you'll see how unlikely pulling your whole body is.

"Einstein was an intellegent man, but suffered because he was on a higher level than most people, and when he thought based on others, he started making Fs in school. Plainly put, THINK FOR YOURSELF."

I do think for myself, but I also think Einstein had some very good ideas so I combined them with my own. I will project into a black hole sometime.


Faceless "I have heard that BH's give off no light at all and are so dense they are smaller than a pin head"

The singularity is theoretically that small, but the event horizon is much bigger. That is the point of no return.

[Tayesin]

Hi all,
Thanks again Beavis for the answers to my questions.  I will have to read up some more on the radiation that is emitted from BH's. []

This thread is sure interesting.

Love always.

[jc84corvette]

I think going into a BH is harmfull. BH's do not allow light to escape. Your astral body is made up of light along with other things. Right?

[Randøm_]

quote:Originally posted by jc84corvette

I think going into a BH is harmfull. BH's do not allow light to escape. Your astral body is made up of light along with other things. Right?

Good question. Furthermore, since energy cannot be created or destroyed, only changed forms, thinking an astral self being lost in a black hole would seem to indicate that whatever is responsible for its projection would not be returned to its original "state".

There's much that exists in theory, even relativity does break down upon approaching a BH's naked singularity. Quantum mechanics, which directly contradicts relativity at some points, also proves to be true. The only assumption that seems safe to make is that there are unknown variables in what we're discussing. Science is far from perfect and many of the theories we hold as facts today may be disproven tomorrow. A complete science of physics would be absolute without any exceptions from the calculations.

Personally, I'd be more interested seeking other intelligent life forms ... perhaps acquiring knowledge that would actually be more useful than the incomprehensibility of exacting what I tend to believe is beyond the grasp of a human brain. Meta-physics (beyond physics),the term, itself, refers to laws that cannot be extrapolated through known physics. If we could equate it, it would no longer be considered metaphysical.

[LogoRat]

Just because light doesnt shine on you doesnt mean it has been destroyed!
Maybe its just soo much "black dust" that blocks the rays to move outside it...

What i think i know is that light is only bent around the "hole".
What it swallows is matter, if a star gets sucked into the hole its because its made out of matter... An Astral Body is pure light ..not mass.

Light cannot get passed a mirror, but an astralbody can.