Saliva Divinorum

[Forgotten Flame 13]

You purchased huh? Please tell me what those are? Are they at all like orgone things?[?]

[DarkestChyld]

it's a plant. it means "deviners sage" it has been used by aztec shamans for going on "spirit vision quests" for hundreds of years, and it's supposed to send you right out of your body, but i don't know anyone else who's actually used it yet, so...
-Sephiroth

[Forgotten Flame 13]

Hmm. Sounds like so many other things. If you want an experience like that, you could probably do the same thing with beer....and you'd also become popular somehow!

[James S]

DarkestChyld,

Any substance such as this, legal or not, used to assist projection is not a good idea, especially for beginners.
Think of such things as the "sterioids" of astral projection. Good for quick fix short term solutions, but damaging in the long term.

The reasoning here is that any substance that can be used to assist projection will take away from you the natural ability to do so. You will become dependent on this substance for projection. Also, projection that is done with the assistance of drugs of any kind is mostly uncontrollable, because it is the drug that is altering your perception, not you.

Many a time has the excuse been used that tribal shamans use certain drugs to assist in astral travel. Remember that these are people that have trained for most of their lives to achieve the skills that they have, and always under the guidance of a master. To these people such drugs as you describe are like a set of chisels to a master woodworker. They've been trained in their use. Somebody who hasn't been trained how to them is going to either botch the job or badly cut themselves.

This subject has been brought up a number of times in the past. You'll find that the people with the most experience in projection will all say that using any substance for assistance is a bad idea. Learning the hard way has far more benefits, even if the time it takes is annoying (I can sympathise with you on this)!

Kind regards,
James.

[DarkestChyld]

Thanks James S,
What you are saying really does make sense. I'll keep trying to go the natural route, i suppose that "instant solutions" or "quick fixes"are in general usually not the best rout to go. I still wonder what it may have been like though... oh well, at least i have a new focus, developing my green thumb. I already purchased the plants, i may as well tend to them.
Thanks again, Eric

[realism]

hey DarkestChyld.
First and for-most, drugs are not a good idea for projection, as James S has mentioned, AND, if you do manage to project while under the influence, you will not have a normal astral experience, instead, you will either visit the lower astral, where negative entities dwell, or you will chance upon the infra dimensions, and thats not a place you want to go. Also, Salvia is a powerful Halucinagen, and if you are not experienced with halucinagens, it would be a very scary trip, as Salvia has very different chemical compounds than LSD or mushrooms, and the trip is MUCH more intense, and different. So be careful if you do decide to take it.
Anyway, hope i have helped.
Regards.

[goingslow]

Ive had experience with the PLANT... but it wasnt anything i can explain.  But if you check out this site I really recommend you read the experience section www.erowid.com .

Its different and its not a high .. its also not the same as a projection because you dont have full consciousness.  And comparing it to beer is completely wrong... you're in no way high.  Its not pleasurable really its just different.  I wouldnt rely on it but then again I dont think you can rely on it because its just so unexplainable.  

Do research on it first and dont expect miracles.  Or anything close to an astral projection.  Dont even expect to like it enough to do it again.  I havent found a place for it because I couldnt understand it and I still cant.  So I agree it isnt for beginners.

Sorry this is scattered but Im very tired.  I really recommend erowid though the site gives reliable information.

[PeacefulWarrior]

I too have had expereinces with the plant and I did not enjoy them nor do I recommend using any substance to achieve an OBE.  By the way, S.D. is at least legal and I don't forsee it becoming illegal because it doesn't have the appeal of an illegal substance, i.e., it is not "fun."

[Nick]

Yes this topic pops up from time to time. I guess I'll quote something I read in Astral Dynamics as this highlights what others have already said:

Take a look at pages 373 and 374 of Astral Dynamics. I think what Robert Bruce says makes a lot of sense: "The only cases I have come across where projectors have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out-of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projections. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience."

Very best,

[DarkestChyld]

hello all,
I havn't had any sucess with traditional astral projection attempts in the 5 months that i've been trying, so i started shopping around, to perhaps find some alternatives. I recently purchased 2 1ft tall, live Salvia Divinorum plants, and was wondering if anyone had had any sucess or memorable experiences using it in regaurd to projection. Thanks very much,
Sephiroth