Dumb question about drugs?

[Anonymous]

Hello, Liz

I believe that there is a reason for drugs to exist in the world. I think they are a metaphor for some very basic aspect of nature that people need to grasp.

People take drugs, obviously, to alter their state of consciousness to a state that they find pleasing. There are different types of drugs and they do different things to people.

I believe people do hallucenogenic drugs mainly for creativity. Most hallucenogenic drugs won't kill a person the first time, provided they're given a moderately low dose, because most of these drugs are made from or are plants, with the exception of LSD (which won't kill you, but can make you permanently insane if you do too much of it!). Mushrooms are sometimes deadly if the wrong kind are eaten.

Many native tribes in many countries have used hallucenogenic drugs in religious ceremonies and rituals, mostly peote (a cactus found in the Southwest U.S.), marajuana, and possibly mushrooms ( I am not sure about this).

Drugs vary on their danger to a person's health.

There are many things a person should never do while affected by drugs- drive a car or operate heavy machinery, do something like important paperwork or something that requires a clear state of mind, etc. I believe the reason for this is because I think that some drugs were/are supposed to be used for sacred purposes and not recreation.

I don't believe that marajuana is a bad drug, or peote, or anything that comes from a plant or something natural, aside from mushrooms, as they are grown mostly on fecal matter, and people would not eat crap by their nature, so why would they eat something that grows on it? I believe, however, that these drugs (it does have a negative connotation, doesn't it?) should only be used for religious purposes as they were intended by the religions that used them. These are not something to fool around with. The reason drugs are so dangerous is because people don't know how to use them or respect them. People just abuse them and do them whenever they feel like it. This is one thing that you will never learn in school. I'm not saying go out and do drugs, but I am saying that a person shouldn't be against them just because of what society tells them to do. People need to decide for themselves what's right for them; I don't believe it's the government's place to interfere with issues like this.

I am against drugs like crack, heroine, valium, and anything in the form of a pill or anything that was invented in a laboratory, even legal drugs you can buy at a pharmacy.

Your decision is up to you and should be respected, as is anyone's decisions. If it is your personal choice to not do drugs, then people need to respect that.

I have tried weed and can tell you that the first few times it was great, and I felt so peaceful and relaxed. The world was perfect and I even believe that once I had a conversation with god. I asked him if I should continue to smoke it and he told me that I should do what I think is right. I still haven't made up my mind whether I want to continue with it or not, but I will certainly not make a habit out of it. So far it's been once a year that I've smoked, which is pretty much nothing. One after-effect I noticed when using it, however, is that it made me really stupid the day after. This has led me to believe that there is a time and a place for drugs like these.

I have not tried any other drugs, except alcohol (because it's legal); I've heard that weed is actually healthier than drinking alcohol, which doesn't surprise me, but I am not certain of that. I think the method of consumption plays into this as well. Weed has been legalized in a couple of countries around the world, and I am sure that some other countries are looking into its medicinal uses.

Weed, for some reason I can't understand, has been classified as a hallucenogen. I have not noticed any such effects when I have used it. Not once. And I've tried it at least 20 times. While on it, I feel a deep connection with the world in general, but I have also felt paranoid while high. I feel paranoid because I know it's illegal and I know that when a person smokes, you can smell it on their breath and their clothes. It would be interesting to see how I would feel if society didn't make such a huge deal about it. To my knowledge, consumption of weed has not caused any deaths to anybody, while alcohol poisoning (not to mention alcohol-related car accidents) kills some large number of people each year.

I hope I have answered your question.

In a nutshell, yes, I believe that drugs can induce a "higher frequency" based on my own experiences. One reason I am glad I have tried weed is because I can answer questions like these with certainty from my experiences. I can't tell you what you will experience, because everybody is different, but I'd say on the whole I've never met anyone who's ever had a bad "high" from weed. Of course, I am answering your question but I am only talking about weed, not all drugs. I have not tried other drugs and don't plan to, so I wouldn't know. All I can say is that I don't think drugs that can kill you are worth trying. I believe that it's okay for a person to try any other kind of drug, though. That's their personal choice.

As far as the legal consequences are concerned, I believe that spirituality is more important than a willingness to conform to society's laws and rules. Most people don't really even need laws and rules because it is in our nature to have appropriate conduct with others. i believe that what society is doing is altering our nature so that if there are no laws, everyone goes nuts. I believe this because nowadays so many people depend on the government and other leaders to make decisions for them. Our society is not individualized at all. People don't trust their own judgement, they look to others for approval before they go and do something that may not even affect anyone else. People also worry about how others see them. This is not terribly important. The clothing a person wears or the color of their skin does not tell us what sort of personality they have. I think that the choice to do drugs is often based on a desire to be more individual and unique and creative, to not always conform to whatever the government or other people tell us to do. My reason for smoking weed was that I wanted to stop listening to others telling me what to do and do something I knew they wouldn't approve of that I did approve of. I don't judge others for smoking weed or doing any other kind of drugs, but I don't like being around people who are always high, stoned, or drunk. I think it's important to know what it feels like to be high so that someday we may be able to teach our children about drugs so that it won't be a "big mystery" to them. I think it is equally important to remember what it feels like to be sober, however, so it is important not to become addicted. Remember, some drugs are meant for spiritual use by older societies that have had years of experience with them.

Okay, I'll stop now. This is way too long. Just remember to do what YOU think is right. Nobody else matters when it comes to your spiritual development. Just don't be like the terrorists and start killing people [B(].

[beavis]

liz "one of my friends clames pot helps them with a "higher frequency". Does anyone belive this?"

I've never done pot either []. It helps a lot.

[liz mccal]

Hello again

I have smoked bud and did for a year and a half during my teen years. I came under attack around the same time but mine is a diffrent story. I have had bad experences but that is me.  
I was wondering from a diffrent view point.  I don't judge the people I know who do drugs to alter their state. Shrooms ect. its not my place to judge i just wanted diffrent view points as i stated in my first post.  
I think it is interesting to see how diffrent things affect diffrent people and how diffrent people feel twards drugs. for instance heroin is a diritive of opium. it's natrual so is cocain in its pure form "natural" and alot of people i know dont like these drugs because they are not "natural" but they are.
After my attack any chemical i put in my body (mind altering) brings in neg's and my old demon, I dont think it (Pot) brought them in but they shure brought down my natural shiels. that is me though. So I wanted other peoples views.
I like learning and why not ask?

Thank you Bevis you did make me LOL, you are a funny man from what I've read in your other post. Good quality!!!
Liz[:I]

[PeacefulWarrior]

There have been NUMEROUS posts here in the astral pulse about drugs and how they relate to our spirituality.  The bottom line is that nearly everyone agrees that generally, the abuse of illicit substances in order to obtain some kind of positive experience is naturally wrong and does not lead to long term progress or success.  

I have openly admitted to having been a drug abuser in the past and despite the fact that certain drugs may have given me more knowledge than I previously had before using them, I caution anyone and everyone to steer clear of the dangers of drug abuse.  I nearly lost my life on more than one occassion (mostly due the abuse of alcohol) and jeapordized my reputation numerous times.  Fortunately I was a young and have since grown up and settled down.  I now see the error of my ways.  meditation, prayer, etc. are the only ways to enlightenment and progression.  I think we all know that, and those who would disagree with me do so because they are drug abusers or plan on abusing.

[Rob]

quote:Originally posted by PeacefulWarrior

There have been NUMEROUS posts here in the astral pulse about drugs and how they relate to our spirituality.  The bottom line is that nearly everyone agrees that generally, the abuse of illicit substances in order to obtain some kind of positive experience is naturally wrong and does not lead to long term progress or success.  

Oh peaceful peaceful!!![:O] I cannot stay quiet with that one.....[]
Generally, people who say drugs dont help fall into two camps: those who have never tried drugs (past the occasional drink!), and those who abused drugs to bad ends.
But the people who have sensibly USED drugs, generally think that they can help......
Personally, as you know, I think they can be very helpful tools.
Anyone who doubts me, I would strongly recommend you go and listen to some Terence Mckenna at http://mckenna.psychedelic-library.org/ and consider why, if they are dangerous and useless, shamans the world over are still using them aeons after their "discovery" if there ever was such a thing.
As I think Terence used to say, and as people like Bill Hicks also said, drugs are primarily a way to break down the barriers of usual consciousness and experience other states which are not limited to the mundane mind. People say that there are no short cuts to enlightenment, but thats just mincing words IMO. There are many methods, including drug use, that can be helpful to jump you forwards in leaps of consciousness. Magick, meditation, ayehuasca.....but if you try and go too fast, and dont integrate the new jumps, you are likely to fall down. Again, this can happen through drug use, or by pushing too fast with magick. Both can totally destroy your mind and make you go insane. Actually I have felt myself on the verge of insanity once, it was not pleasant, but had nothing to do with any drugs - if I can pinpoint it to anything it was reading qabalah.
Everyone has heard of the term "thinking outside of the box". We all live in boxes, only the most enlightened have broken completely free (and even then, I dunno). Drugs are a way of breaking through the box, shifting it sideways or expanding it. The box in question is an analogy to your state of awareness, which is a function of your state of consciousness. So to shift your consciousness, whether it is in ritual magick, meditation  or after munching shrooms, is to bring other things into awareness which are normally hidden.
Yes, you can meditate, but yes you can also take drugs occasionally, or even better combine both with some magick on top. They are all rather different though, each a unique tool to change yourself.

To get back to the original question, I am not sure if drugs raise of lower your energies. I certainly think its possible that they could put them at higher vibrations, though certain drugs can also lower them (eg excessive alcohol). Some people use drugs (eg ciggies) to ground them.
But I think the biggest and most important movement is a kind of "sideways" one.

Hope this helps [8D]

Rob

[goingslow]

Very well said Inguma you actually took the words right out of my mouth.  Very well said!

Well I was gonna recommend liz download or get some Bill Hicks too.  I see a lot of fear when drugs are mentioned.  And they aren't the end all be all to mystical experience but I think there is a place for them.  They really helped me see the importance of having another perspective and how the mind really does shape our perspective of the world.  But I never abused them.. maybe thats why I dont have an overly negative view on them.

[goingslow]

Another plus btw liz is if you do happen to go overboard and become a drug abuser a new door will open for you.  The opportunity to become a reborn and save many people's souls by preaching of the evils of drugs.  Its a win win situation in the end.

Im only joking about that.  But I am serious you will not find an unbiased view on this.  There are drawbacks.. but there are also drawbacks to be so afraid of anything labelled bad and just go by people's word.  The key is having enough willpower to not go overboard.  Not enough people have that.. and thats when the fear comes in.  BTW I dont do drugs anymore.. And I never got in trouble for doing drugs.  Never drove drunk (honestly), never got into a fight while high.  Thats where personal responsibility comes in instead of blaming a substance.

[Rob]

"Why cant we ever hear a positive drug story on the news? Just for once??

'Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one conciousness sharing ourself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is just a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather.....'"

LOL yeah Bill Hicks rocks!! Hey I read a biography on him the other day, very interesting bloke, very driven. He also abused drugs a lot in his 20's and then was a member of alcoholics anonymous the rest of his life - very active with them, whenever he got to a new city one of the first things he would do would be to go find the local AA group. But he still took huge doses of schrooms occasionally (and BOY he had some interesting experiences...on 5 dried grams!!!!!) and was a big advocate of drugs.

"Its not a war on drugs, its a war on personal freedmon, keep that in mind at all times OK? Thanks...."

great great man. Such a shame. Btw he was killed by his neg.....

Aaaanyway - thanks for the support! Ditto on what you said..
Myself, I have both used, abused and generally had a lot of fun with drugs, and made some of my closest friendships on them. Almost all, infact! Which sounds sad, but is how it works....

[Tayesin]

Hi All.
I agree with pretty much all that has been said, and that is mainly because I also had the best time in my 'mis-spent youth'.

Also, I find it extremely interesting that our brains have receptors built into them for the natural drugs.  This I think indicates that we are meant to use them for specific purposes.  And yes there is a huge difference between using them effectively and abusing them.

And, from my own experiences of baby-sitting trippers, I also believe that some people should not try certain drugs.  It's the same with all the drugs, some people can handle alcohol and others get F'd up on it.  According to research I read many years ago, pot is way down towards the bottom of the list of drugs that are 'bad' for us.  Alcohol and tobacco are at the top, hard drugs like Heroin etc follow on from there.

From my experience of a wide selection of drugs that I experiemented with, it seemed to me that the use of them did speed up the altering of perception, although now I find practicing spiritual methods works just as quickly.  So while they can and have been used to usher in awarenesses, it is just as easy to accustom ourselves to doing it by much practice without the drugs.  Although it might not seem like so much fun at the time, LOL.

And lastly, if you are attacked during the use of any drug then it would seem that your guard is down at the time, and that comes as no surprise after my own experiences.[]

Love always.[]

[shadowatcher]

I think their are 3 kinds of drug use:

1. Ceremonial- Indian tribes all over the US did and do take large doses of caffiene, peyote, marijauna, etc. to induce trances.

2. Mindless recreation- Drugs like crack, acid, and others make the user feel invincible, and powerful. These drugs are used mainly by people with nothing to live for. They use the drugs once, get hooked, spend all their money to get more, then OD and die. Its really sad.

3. Relaxation- Marijauna is used as a pain relief, and a relaxant. Marijauna is, in fact, not very dangerous. Canada would have legalized it years ago, if it werent for US interferance. Marijauna is really amazing. When used correctly, It allows a great relaxation and enhancement of senses. Some positive things that can happen when you smoke marijauna are:
1. Increased smell, taste, and sight.
2. "supervision" allowing you to "zoom" in and out with your eyes.
3. Imagination increases. Allowing you to "feel" things that you imagine.
4. Increased cognitive capacity/Decreased cognitive capacity...(their is an active debate whether pot makes you so smart, you can only babbly nonsense, or whether it makes you so stupid you can only babble nonsense)
5. Increased OBE ability, and Astral Awareness




*I discourage use of all drugs, in any way shape or form. I have never used nor have I ever sold, bought, or encouraged the selling or buying of drugs*

[Lasher]

quote:Originally posted by liz mccal


I dont do drugs. I dont like drugs. I dont drink. (ok cigaretts and caffine). one of my friends clames pot helps them with a "higher frequency". Does anyone belive this? Is it true?
I will not do drugs personally. It is my personel choice. I dont care if others do. I just wanted opinions.

In answer to your question, Liz.  Yes, I think it is possible that pot helps your friend experience a higher frequency.  But, imho, now that he knows how this higher frequency feels, he should work on reaching it without the pot.  That way he gets the benefits without the negative baggage.  

Lasher

[beavis]

PeacefulWarrior "we all know that, and those who would disagree with me do so because"

Typical closed minded statement from somebody who has been brainwashed against all drugs.

[PeacefulWarrior]

Ya'll got me wrong!  <---say with with a thick Texas accent (I don't have a Texas accent, but I would yell that to you in a Texas accent if I could).

Everyone seems to have missed a KEY word that I used, it's even in the quote you took from my post Inguma.  The word is ABUSE.  Druge use and drug abuse are two different things.

I had a mind blowing expereince while using psylocibin that actually changed ny life for the better. The main thing I was taught in this experience, which I am thankfful for, is that I didn't need drugs anymore to realize the bigger picture and see past the illusions (maya) of this world.

So Beavis nothing could be further from the truth.  I am not close minded about drugs, but I take a very strict stance because the VAST majority of people who use LSD or "shrooms," for example, do not sit down with an experienced Shaman or guide and do not have any other reason to do it other than "It's gonna be trippy brah!"  Those people who are not like that don't need to hear people like me say, "Generally, drugs are a bad idea."

Generall they are a bad idea, regardless of the very small fraction of intelligent, openminded people.  I have too many freinds and relatives who used to toke with me who are still doing that, EVERYDAY and have seriously degraded their overall well-being because they can't use, but abuse.  

Spoken.

[PeacefulWarrior]

PS- I have a read some of McKenna's work, namely "The Archaic Revival" (in it's entirety) and have to say that he is a smart guy with some neat insights.  Other than that, I don't think he made an truly significant contributions to science or even to the field of pseudoscience.  

I found this on the net as I was looking over some of his work:
I've read some of Terrence McKenna's stuff. In its complexity, parascience
poetry and flashy graphics, it is a singular example of a high-level
intellect gone to waste.

After decades of drug abuse, McKenna developed liver cancer. His doctors
assured him that his particular drugs of abuse were not responsible for this
condition, but Mckenna disbelieved them. To his credit, IMO, he believed he
had brought on the cancer by his lifestyles choices.

I'm much more willing to believe McKenna was right about the cause of his
fatal illness than about his timewave theory.

Michael LaTorra

[beavis]

PeacefulWarrior "So Beavis nothing could be further from the truth. I am not close minded about drugs, but I take a very strict stance because the VAST majority of people who use LSD or "shrooms," for example, do not sit down with an experienced Shaman or guide and do not have any other reason to do it other than "It's gonna be trippy brah!""

You dont need a shaman to do what the shaman does. You just have to do the drug more times to get the same result. How do you know "trippy" doesnt include what a shaman does?

"meditation, prayer, etc. are the only ways to enlightenment and progression. I think we all know that, and those who would disagree with me do so because they are drug abusers or plan on abusing."

I cant think of any quote that includes the bold text that isnt closed minded, including this one. I dont "know that" so you are wrong that "we all know that". You agree that drugs can be used in a good way so you dont "know that" either. I dont like when anybody says ALL people or NOBODY does or doesnt do something.

[liz mccal]

Hello,

Didn't mean to upset anyone.  Just wondering I had such a bad experience with pot alone, it was abnormal. So I dont feel qualified to answer questions from my roommates son or his friends.  I dont know if I am allowed to print this topic out but I would like to.  Then he can get more opinions than my "I'm not a good person to ask".  

THANK YOU!!!!!

I had no idea how diffrent views on this could be. I dont feel I can can give advice or an opinion, heck pot made me want to clean the house at first then my shields went down and well it wasn't a good thing.

Thank you again,
Liz

[goingslow]

I downloaded everything of bill hicks I could find off the internet and listened to it about 1000 times.  I dont agree with everything he says but you're right Inguma he was a great man and comedian.

[PeacefulWarrior]

Beavis: apparently you missed my point once again and yes, you are correct in that I did use language that was a little strong and overgeneralized, but I stick to my position: the abuse of illicit drugs is wrong and a great deal of drug use is drug abuse.

When it comes down to it, I think some people benefit a great deal from the intrspective, enlightening properties of controlled psychadelics under the supervision of an expereinced guide (especially alcoholics and others who need to step out of their egos and see their lives from a new, unique perspective), but common, how many people who use LSD, psylocibin (magic mushrooms), ecsatcy, etc. are using them under these circumstances?  I'll answer the question for you: very, very few.  Most of these drugs are looked on by the general population as recreational and escapism drugs and they are not.  They are very serious compounds that, when used with respect and prudence, can yield incredible journeys.  Nonetheless, I think all of the things they offer can be obtained through meditation and with the benefit of increased control.

By the way, I didn't say you need a shaman, I said you need a sham or a guide.  Also, your comment about using the drug to get the same result didn't make sense to me...well, I guess it did, but for me someone who uses the same drug over and over to get the same result...that's the very definition of abuse.  One thing that I can say in defense of the amazing psychoactive compound of psylocibin is that it teaches one not to use it once he or she has obtained the expereince that it offers.

Finally, I just want to say that I appreciate your comments and I aploligze for sounding a bit close-minded.  The main reason I defend my position so is because I lived in the drug culture for many years and I saw many very promising young people lose control of their lives as they gobbled and drank up anything they could to avoid facing their lives.  Much too often use becomes abuse for many people, and if you disagree with me on that, then I don't know what to say to you.  

Best,
Dan

[eomaia]

Psilocybin mushrooms have always been a kind of spiritual entertainment for me, like watching the TV of the psychesoul, which can be fun and you might learn a little something, but it's still all jumbled and fuzzy, yet the ride is still fun.

Maybe those who use them solely recreationally are just in the stage where the entertainment value is the draw, but many of them will in fact be shown something very important for them.  I've had momentary experiences with truly high quality television, but it isn't long before the ongoing subconscious dream returns.

There are good chances that a fully enlightened human would not be using external chemicals as a sacrament, could be wrong though.  Meditation and astral projection just seem like a slightly more dependable source for the real nitty-gritty of the universe.  There's so much the TV refuses to tell us, I guess we just have to go outside.

Thank you for everything.

[liz mccal]

Hello,

I dont do drugs. I dont like drugs. I dont drink. (ok cigaretts and caffine). one of my friends clames pot helps them with a "higher frequency". Does anyone belive this? Is it true?
I will not do drugs personally. It is my personel choice. I dont care if others do. I just wanted opinions.


Liz[:I]