Muscle Relaxers brought to you by nature...

[TorosDead]

I know how you feel about enthusiasm being gone.  I too have been practicing for a few years and still have not felt the vibrations or anything.  Once I felt very strange, but it didn't lead anywhere.  I often hear stories of "I tried for about a month and FINALLY got out" and just wonder if it's real or not.  Who knows, maybe it's not for everyone.  As for muscle relaxers, not really sure if they would work or not.  I always stretch my muscles and am usually completely relaxed that way, but maybe there is something out there.

[nicholas]

Hi All,

Although I would not recommend a muscle relaxant as the best way to acheive a state which is conductive to allowing one to astral project , there is certainly a known cemical which when taken in the correct quantity will almost ensure one will astral project. This cemical is called Ketamine , please see http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ketamine/ketamine_journal5.shtml.
Ketamine has long been used worldwide as an anesthetic in hospitals and has recently been discontined in most non third world countries due to most patients who were not given memory blockers in conjunction with this reporting OBE's.

For those not interested in experimenting with chemicals there is a herb available by mail order in the US
please see http://www.salvia-divinorum.info/

I would be interested in other peoples experiences with these.
I undertstand that most people who are able to astral project without chemical / herbal aid would probably not approve of using these but after years of trying I have simply not been able to astral project without them.Although I have come very close

[Phil_Trance]

Ketamine experience is NOT what you all are after.  Although ketamine is alot of fun and very interesting, you have no control over your experience - You're just strapped in to a rollercoaster and have to go where it wants to take you.

You'll retain most of what happens during the experience but all the visuals are very fuzzy/blurry and you'll never communicate with anyone or anything.  It's much closer to a NDE than AP, but definitely is an OBE.

If you want read a detailed, easy-to-read, and unbiased book about ketamine, definitely check out Dr. Karl Jensen's "Ketamine: Dreams and Realities"

People say they have talked to aliens, the deceased, and God during ketamine but I know NO ONE who has experienced anything remotely like this.  I think those kinds of people are just f**ked up to start with and heavy ketamine use doesn't make them any better.

Ketamine is NO SUBSTITUTE for true astral projection!

[yellowsubmarine]

there ya go.

I tried a kava kava extract liquid which I bought at a health food store last night. I did notice that it was much easier to relax my body and I think I got the vibes! I felt a strange sensation in my legs, a tingling, like someone was massaging them, this feeling would move up to my head in waves. My mind kept writing scenarios and going all over the place. Whenever I told it to shut up, the feeling would come back. I eventually passed out. I think the one problem with KAVA I have experienced so far is that it does relax your body but it also relaxs the mind a little too much for my taste. May be just an internal mental thing however.

I'll keep trying and see what happens.

I also heard that DMT was another substitute for entering the higher astral planes although I heard you have no control over the experience, rather the experience is controlling youuuuu.

does peyote knock you out of the physical as well? I've heard of shamans being able to leave their teepees while they float around the world above them after they take the sacred cactus. Sounds like OBE to me.

[alt0xFF]

A good muscle relaxer brought to you by nature is your brain
A few good methods that I've found to work well for me are described here: http://www.issf-shooting.com/brochures/brochure_site/competitive.pdf (page 30) - OBE'ers are not the only ones who need exceptioanly deep relaxation. BTW even if you are not a shooter, you still might find some useful information in that booklet.

TorosDead, if you are stuck, I would recommend doing serious "peripheral training" first - learn to enter and sustain light trance, then to enter and sustain deeper trance; learn and practice various relaxation methods; learn and practice energy raising techniques, such as N.E.W. - this will give you solid platform for applying your skills in OBE, and only then you make OBE your objective and start working with various AP techniques. I'm having hard time as well, so I'm trying to learn "Algebra" before trying "Calculus".

[seth817]

Try taking a hot bath and put epsom salts in the bath. Somehow the epsom salts really relax the muscles. I have tried taking a bath with epsom salts and my body felt heavy and relaxed. I felt like a rag dall.

[yellowsubmarine]

Has anyone ever tried using a muscle relaxer to make things a little easier for projection? I wasn't thinking anything pharmaciutical like valium. I was thinking more in lines with natural substances such as Kava Kava.

If some of you remember me, I was the one that talked about using pot as a method to induce OBEs. I believe that this is impossible. Pot interferes with my minds ability to focus on one thing and I feel that it is sometimes a shortcut for achieving this OBE thing.

I just haven't felt the vibrations yet or really seen anything that proves to me that this is 'real' yet. I am trying to maintain an open mind and I do practice 2 - 3 times a day. I've noticed my enthusiasm isn't what it once was but then again I have only been trying this for the past 5 weeks and I know some people, it can take them years. []