A plea for more open-mindedness

[wisp]

Hi Tisha,
I know what your trying to say. I've been compared to satan by someone in my life who isn't even a christian,though I am not a traditional christian. I would be a little suspect to attend a church.I've attended a few in the past but it's not my cup of tea as the saying goes.
I've always veered toward the christian belief system because it suites me. I take from it what I find applies to me and is true to me, the rest is window dressing or what ever you call it.Okay...dogma is a common dicription [] That doesn't mean though, it's not important to the next person. I respect that and tread softly around other's beliefs, sacred territory.
I have been always been accused of leaving my mind too open by my mother, my entire life. Yet, today we two cannot be closer and still have varing views on many things. The one thing the two of us are of one mind about is God. We both love God and have learned much through what God has instilled in us. God imparts himself to those who love him. We can sit and talk about God endlessly. My other philosophies are not shared with her. This is an area she doesn't delve into. And I hear a few "oh mys" from her when I say a few things out of her comfort zone, so I back off.

My opinion is your philosphy group did not go away because of christians. It may have gone because it was time, and it is the way the natural order of things fall. No one need blamed for something necessarily. You harbor the thought, but what if you let the old thought go and look at in a different way. I believe more things will open up to you. More challenges perhaps, but also sweet and wonderful things you wouldn't trade for, to go back to your old thoughts.

Christians have their ways for sure, but so do everyone else. I find most christians the most kind and caring people I know. I spend a lot of time around them.

[Allanon]

Imagine a group of fellows living in a cess pool. They see no Way out and love to discuss the nature of the pool and the metaphysical implications of "existing" there. One day a member finds a jewel attached to a rope which leads out of the cess pool into the clean air above them. Rather than trusting the rope the philosophers continue there daily discussions on the slime and mold growing around the edges.

This is reality my friends and Jesus is the answer to free us from the sufferering. The Jewel in the cess pool. Keep your minds open but just stop and look to see if your "open mindedness" is just keeping you in a "closed cage".

[Soulfire]

quote:Originally posted by wisp

My opinion is your philosphy group did not go away because of christians.

I do not presume to speak for Tisha, but I THINK what she was trying to say was that her group died because the leader became a closed minded Christian who tried to repress other people's ideas and/or use them for his own personal agenda.

Not all Christians are like that, but unfortunately a great many are.  The title of her thread sais a lot: "A plea for more open mindedness".  Note that it was not entitled "A plea for fewer Christians".

--Soulfire

[Tisha]

I think Soulfire is the only respondent so far who actually read my whole post!  Let me repeat:  There were several christians in this group, and even I was attending a christian church at the time.  I have no problems with christians; I'm even dating a christian (who, thank god, is not trying to "convert" me).  Capice?

The whole point is that the group fell apart due to the dominance of a closed minded person and his religious agenda.  It was his ceasless (yet strangely ineffective) efforts to convert people to his point of view, and his lack of respect for other peoples' opinions, that caused the disintigration of a once thriving group of people.  

Choose any religion, any point of view.  Once people get this closed-minded, intellectual/spiritual exchanges are fruitless because there is NO CONVERSATION, only a soapbox and unwilling victims.

Spiritual beliefs are a wonderful thing. We all need them to find peace in this world.  But it's a BIG UNIVERSE, with room for everyone's ideas. Let them flow!

[Adrian]

Greetings Allanon,

quote:Originally posted by Allanon

Imagine a group of fellows living in a cess pool. They see no Way out and love to discuss the nature of the pool and the metaphysical implications of "existing" there. One day a member finds a jewel attached to a rope which leads out of the cess pool into the clean air above them. Rather than trusting the rope the philosophers continue there daily discussions on the slime and mold growing around the edges.

This is reality my friends and Jesus is the answer to free us from the sufferering. The Jewel in the cess pool. Keep your minds open but just stop and look to see if your "open mindedness" is just keeping you in a "closed cage".

Many would say the human race as it is now for the most part, with its creed, dogma, doctrine, greed, materialism and many other dark traits is the real "cess pool" and the only way out,towards the light, is to embrace the Spiritual realities such as we discuss here.

Analogies work both ways, not only for the convenience of your bible lessons, which BTW you are supposed to be through with here.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Jenadots]

Agreed.  Open mindedness is a must here.  

I often wonder about the human impulse to worship - to seek out or create a god or goddess that is somehow better than us.  It is in all cultures in all our known history.  It is as common as our impulse to dance or make music or pictures or tell stories.  It seems we are ever striving for a spiritual connection.

Is it a human characteristic to need or want someone or something to pray to?  

I also wonder why we, or some of us, become so adamant in defending a religion, a belief, a God.  So much killing in our known history has been because of religious differences, and it continues today.
 
Contrastingly, there are also so many wonderful acts of compassion done because of a faith.  There is also wonderful music and art created that is faith based, all over the world.

I would like to hear anyone/everyone's perspective on this.    

[Spirit_k9]

Tisha,
I know where you're coming from, and I'd hate to see AP sink into the depths of the useless too.  

This is one major reason to have moderators. I've been on many a forum, newsgroup, etc. that falls victim to the many different types of personas that ruin discussion. The one thing that could have saved the groups were impartial and open minded moderators. I could recount reasons for failings, or list persona types, but I won't. I do want to say that when one of these 'types' pop up and try to usurp the good conversation with so much dung they need to be challenged. That's when the moderator's ears  need to perk up because that challenge is what eventually turns into a power struggle for ideas, beliefs, and the need to be believed.

In other words, I hear ya, and keep up the good work (pat pat)

[Squeek]

Tisha - My thoughts exactly.  Thank you for posting this topic

And I cannot believe such a thing existed in schools back in the day  Wowwwww   I wish they were around nowadays.  I'd join

~Squeek

[WalkerInTheWoods]

I always liked the saying:

Minds are like parachutes, they work best when they are open.

[jason]

I really, really hope that this place doesn't turn into a gathering of extremely petty fundamentalists discussing 'the only way to god or rot in hell for all eternity' kind of simplistic garbage.

this is the only place I know of that has some extremely fascinating discussions and experiences happening -pushing the boundaries of human experience and understanding, not running in an endless hampster wheel of self-ignorance.

all reigions are welcome here.

RELIGION + STUPIDITY (=fundamentalism),is not[!]

[beavis]

I'm open-minded. The weirder something is, the more I want to talk about it. But I hate dogma and blind faith. You should have a reason for believing something.

[Jeff_Mash]

I try not to confuse religion with spirituality.....but Tisha brings up a good point.  I think it's rather ironic that Christianity (to use this as an example) wants you to be open-minded (as Allanon said, we should "trust the rope"), and yet, once you trust it, you are chastised for being open-minded towards anything else.

Before I became a born again Christian, I was open-minded, seeking for a deeper spiritual meaning in my life.  At 18, I found Christianity, was baptised in the name of Jesus, and filled with the Holy Ghost (yes, speaking in tongues and everything).

I devouted YEARS to reading and studying the Bible as God's living Word.  My hunger to grow as a spiritual being, however, started to get squashed by the RELIGION of Christianity.  Now it seemed that being open-minded as a Christian was NOT something that I was to pursue.  I had to close my mind to all "worldly influences" and any spiritual advice or experiences coming from the world were (I was TOLD) influenced by none other than Satan himself.  

Again, it's rather ironic that the same open-mindedness we are instructed to have to trust in Jesus is the exact same open-mindedness we are told to supress once we find Him.

I am not passing judgement on anyone's religion or personal beliefs.  However, as an observer, I tend to see the hypocrisies of people's doctrine when they try and "convert the converted."

Grrrrr.....I find things like this so hard to put in words sometimes, so I shall creep back into my corner.

[beavis]

Its best not to label yourself with any standard set of beliefs (made by others). To be truly open-minded, you must be willing to believe things (if they appear to be true!) from any source.

[wisp]

Wow Jeff,
I don't think you could have stated it any better than what you did. I believe the same as you. And I like the fact you gave credit to your christian faith. I think it's a matter of moving on from there. I am a strong christian believer. However, a power beyond me has prompted me onward to a more extended view. It's been scary getting past my usual comfort zones, but the trip has been worth it. I can't go back now. Yet, in no way does it diminish my original faith. Thanks for saying it so well. There is an "irony" factor. I think this causes some of the confusion in  people's thinking.
I believe there is such thing as evil. I don't believe evil is identified correctly. Is it the elusive other aspect of the light, or is it the build-up of tiresome, wrong, and insincere thinking patterns?  I think it's along the lines of the latter. If people could only get past fears, including evil (wrongly identified), death (physical matters), and judgment (lack of surety of one's self), I think wonderful things can happen on a bigger scale.

[James S]

Hey Jeff - BIG welcome back!!!

I've a feeling we've both compared notes on this before, but as to what you said....fully DITTO!

Been the born again christian, did the holy ghost baptism & speaking in tounges bit. Did all the bible studies, etc. etc.

I think there's a few of us here that have been through the same thing, and I believe what happened to us all is we started doing that one thing that a lot of ministers/pastors/etc really dislike members of their congregations doing - thinking

- James.

[Fat_Turkey]

Nice way to put it James! Very very nice []

I think that Christianity lacks one really powerful belief - balance and harmony. All this "good vs. evil" thing should be "good and evil" thing. You can't have a song with all high notes. And you can't have a muffin or a chocolate bar that's too sweet. Yin and Yang people. It simply represents the harmony that equals peace. If you are seeking peace, in my eyes you have to realise that with good times comes bad times, and within both good and evil there is a little bit of the opposite. With that being said, I think that the Astral Pulse could be going through a pretty rough period, whereas before it prospered.

I mean, now we have twelve year olds role-playing, other members losing their tempers, some random Christian dude running in and trying to mass convert people - it's all haywire.

That saying is very true, mind's do only work best when they are open. I think that when tempers flare and netiquette gets broken, people are losing sight of what was what made them want to join this forum in the first place - open-mindedness.

I thank you deeply Tisha for your insightfulness on the situation, and I will do my best not to go around rampaging my own beliefs and mindsets and yelling at others. The river of thoughts needs to flow and become enriched by other streams and creeks of ideas, not blocked here and there by the rocks of scorn and close-mindedness. Don't ask, I just made it up on the spot[].

Later
~FT

[Tisha]

I remember . . . ah! so long ago.

Back when I was young (heh) I belonged to a university club called the Philosophical Society.  Its membership had a wonderful time discussing all the sorts of things that we discuss on Astralpulse; in fact, perhaps by joining Astralpulse I have found my new "philosophical society," and for that I thank Mr. Robert Bruce very much.

But my university club fell apart.  Do you know why?  The club's president and founder became a born-again christian, THAT's why.  It's not that there is anything wrong with people accepting Jesus, that's not my point.  There were already many christians in the Philosophical Society, even a few "born again" pentacostal types (even I attended a pentacostal church at that point of my spritual development). My point is that what HAPPENED IS THAT ALL THOSE WONDERFUL DISCUSSIONS ENDED.  The real discussion stopped. The President adopted an agenda of "converting" everyone, and every philosophical discussion we tried to have after that moment was wormed into his agenda, with only ONE right answer to every question posed.  He even changed the name of the group to the "Christian Philosophical Society."

One by one, people stopped attending the meetings.  In the end, the Christian Philosophical Society had only two members, the president and one other born-again christian.  As for me, I joined another club exploring metaphysical matters, a club with more open-minded views. When I left, the Christian Philosophical Society president wrote a poem about how I'd chosen Satan over Jesus, and posted it on the club bulletin board.

Do you see where I am going with this?  Please don't let this happen to Astralpulse; it's my new philosophical/metaphysical family, and I'm laying bets that it's yours too.  Fortunately, the people with the single-minded agendas don't run this website, and for that I am most grateful.  But YOU, you Astralpulse members out there, YOU get to decide what gets discussed in these forums!  You chose the topics, you decide which topics end up with many pages and which ones sink unnoticed into the archives.

This is your place to act within reason.  The moderators (count me among them) have placed reasonable boundaries around our activities, and within this boundary we have an enormous amount of leeway.  It's up to all of us to keep Astralpulse a fun, meaningful, informative place to be.  I know we can do it; we've done it many times before.  

Only recently have we allowed a few newcomers to drag us into the muck with them.  Astralpulse is huge now; it stands to reason that a few "online negs" will creep in now and then, and that occasionally things will flame up and people will lose their tempers, get shut out, or leave on their own.  Despite all this, please remember that this is your place to enjoy yourself and learn new things and engage in meaningful discussion - - - and as a member, you have responsibility to do your part, too, in keeping Astralpulse a nice place for people to spend time.

That's my rant for the day.  Thank you so much!