Is this what we're talking about (cults)?

[Anonymous]

P.S. Feel free to ban me if you want, I really don't care. I said what I wanted, when I wanted, and I enjoyed it thoroughly. You could not have prevented me from posting this. The "damage," as they say, is done. You can only prevent me from posting more. You know what I think? I think Robert Bruce himself needs to see for himself all that has been going on, if he hasn't already. This is HIS site and his alone.

[Anonymous]

I would just like you to know that I am aware that I have violated user terms by re-posting this. Guess you have no choice but to ban me. Good-bye.

[Man Of Jade]

Bravo Wiggin![]

[Flummox]

"The original post had nothing harmful or malicious about it. What I see here is a prejudice towards Christians."

Nope. My reply was to Allanon/Narrow Path.
Has he not stated his opinion very clearly about astral projection, over and over and over again?

Hostile? Prejudice towards Christians?

EnderWiggin, I think you totally missed the point of my reply. Allanon/Narrow Path said he only wanted people with an open mind to reply. Well, that says it all... If you´ve been around lately that is.

Cheers!/Flummox.

[travelinbob]

I have not seen a prejudice towards christians. But Allanon/NarrowPath has been offensive to all who do not believe in his pet dogma, by casting all of us to hell, if we don't agree with him/her.

This self rightous attitude has been condemned not only by the non christians, but by other more tolerant christians, who are an integral part of this forum. These christians do not cast us all to hell. Allanon/NarrowPath does. So in my opinion, he should be banned until he can do his preaching without damning us all to the hell he believes in.

Preaching is ok, but respect all of us who don't buy into your particular philosophy. I believe that no matter what you believe you are OK, as long as it all ends up in love and respect. This self rightous hate and fear this person spews out like poison is not productive.

[Nita]

Hello Enderwiggin
There is no ban upon Christians here or their viewpoints. I ask you how many buddhists, muslims, or Hindus do you see claiming that people are attacked by devils and are going to Hell. I would like one example from these forums of this. I know it is called by different names in different religions so in their own terms.
I enjoy Christianity and am reading a book on angels right now. It is called the Big Book of Angels by Beliefnet editors. It is fascinating. It is a lot different than being made to think like someone else and forced to follow their view of life or you are evil.
  Nita

[Anonymous]

It may be that many Christians frequently claim that all people who do not believe in their religion are going to hell. However, I don't think that's something we need to address if we know we're not going to hell. If we know this accusation is false, there is no reason to waste energy in saying so over and over. Maybe Allanon/Narrow Path's history of posts has been offensive (ok, forget the maybe). But if you let that bother you, it only contributes to the negativity on this site, because what we end up with is more insulting/bashing/flaming, and how much better are you for doing that? The need to do such things shows weakness. Just like I and others have said before, if you don't want to read it... then don't. It's really that simple. It seems that people who read his posts are just looking for an argument. It doesn't bother me that he posts these things, because I know that a merciful god would not damn everyone to hell for all eternity. Therefore I am not bothered by Allanon/Narrow Path's posts. Christianity is quite young compared to most religions, the way the U.S. is young compared to most countries. There is a correlation here: both have a lot to learn about worldly conduct.

Anyway, MY point is that people let things like this bother them, and they let it bring them down and cloud their mind, resulting in a slowing of their spiritual development and enlightenment. If someone insults you, fine, whatever. What do you care? They're not important to you and they don't know you. They are foolish if they judge you because 99% of the time they will never meet you in person. If you are comfortable with who you are, it shouldn't bother you. Smile, nod, and move on. I see a buildup of preconceived notions and prejudices all over the place, both from Christians and in response to them. I do not see any muslims posting on this forum. I've seen Buddhists, Jews, and just about every other religion. But suppose a muslim did join and started telling you about the Jihad and accused you of being infidels? Would you be as bothered by it or would you just laugh at it?

Hostility isn't getting anyone anywhere. When I first joined these forums, they were good, and people expressed their viewpoints freely. I don't think anyone should have a reputation on this forum. I say this because I believe that every post is a chance for a new start. If someone says something valid, no matter how bad of a reputation they have, they should be heard.

Flummox- I see now where Allanon posted that only open-minded individuals should respond. Still, if people who TRULY have an open-mind respond. what harm can come of it? And to answer your question, I have not been around lately- I've been focused on schoolwork and kung fu.

Nita- There are false Christians and there are real ones (there are also false and real Buddhists, Muslims, Jews, Wiccans, etc. What makes them real or false is how they use what they have learned. Those who use what they learned for the better are real, and those who use it for evil or worse are false). I am enrolled in a Philosophy of Religions class, and right now one of the points we are looking at is that all of the major religions are formed around the same basic views/rules of conduct. We are examining two different viewpoints of Christianity- Dogma, and what most people define as reality, which often contradicts dogma. Those who do not respect each other are not true members of whatever religion they follow, just as a student who goes to college to drink is not a true student.

I am also studying African litterature, right around the time when the Europeans gave up their colonies in Africa, and left those countries in poverty and chaos. There were Islamic conquerors and also Christian ones. But all in all, once those conquerers and their colonies were defeated or left, the Africans returned to their traditional ways. This goes to show that even here on this site, we have control over what we believe and what we are offended by. If people would ignore his posts, he would eventually stop. It's really that simple. Just skip over them if you don't like his replies, and DON'T respond to him- it will only cause him to spew more.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I was referring to this particular topic, not his others or what he has done in other topics. I don't see anything offensive here. Maybe it's because of my viewpoint and philosophies on the subject, but that's my opinion.

My thoughts about Allanon/Narrow Path: He came here because he was curious about this sort of stuff. He insults to find the answers because he does not know of a better way. He will learn, or he will fail. The dogma he spews is not his own- it has been written by many others from ages ago. If that is what he chooses to believe, then that's his decision. Even if he believes he should "force" it upon others (hahaha ha ha ha! Good luck!), he cannot do it unless people let him. I've already seen Satan's plan. He's USING Christianity to control people. That's why I make a reference to false Christians. Those who think they know the answer will be proven wrong. Sometimes I feel Buddhist spirits calling to me- and I am a Christian (I guss). But as a Christian I feel awkward. I believe in Jesus, but I also believe that there are other ways to the same place. It's like a path in the forest. You can take that path, which so many before you have tread upon, or you can make your own, so long as you go around the trees and it takes you to the same place.

The following statements are directed towards everyone:

Empty your mind before you try to learn. Relax and flow like a river (go with the flow of your being).

"Take kindness and benevolence as the basis, and frankness and friendliness as the bosom."
-Ou Wen Wei

"Speak with reason, treat others with kindness, move others with emotion, and act with result."
-Ou Wen Wei




The good of this forum can only be restored if we first restore the good within ourselves. Returning hostility and accusations to Allanon will solve nothing. He has already seen them. It will only continue the downward spiral that a lot of people here seem to be heading into. You (and Allanon) are the bull, and offense is the matador. It will kill your spirit and your progress if you continue to let it taunt and tease you. If you really want to throw Allanon off-guard and make him think, you should respond in exactly the opposite way he would expect you to, and only when you have not let him offend you can you do this.

[Anonymous]

It's like the old saying goes- "If you argue with a fool, make sure he isn't doing the same thing."

[Anonymous]

By the way, Sahlyn- If you want your experience you have shared to receive replies, I recommend copying it and pasting it in a new topic.

[Nita]

Hello Enderwiggin
  I agree about the fact that you just don't need to read the topics that upset you. The problem is that some people when they do not receive a bunch of attention on their topics post all over.
  Again I agree that you can just ignore those topics. The problem is when a poster makes posts so often that it is hard to carry on a decent discussion. People react and then you have problems. I am not bashing or being upset at anyone. I don't enjoy seeing it either.
  I think that a lot of the posters that have agendas about trying to control topics and affect others that make it where these decisions are happening. I know it is not because any of the moderators or anyone else liking it done. It is not an easy job trying to head off the very arguments that you are mentioning here.
  I really enjoyed comparative religions in school. I have been around muslims at the gym I go too. I have also read the Rumi and the Koran. I just think it is a shame that so many people are attached to the dogma in religions instead of the spirituality that everyone could enjoy hearing about.
  Nita

[James S]

Hi Enderwiggen,

I knew I was going to cop some flack about locking down N.P.'s new topic.

Now are you upset because of what I've done, or are you upset because I've done it to a christian, because to be honest it doesn't make a blind bit of difference to me.

For me there's no religious distinction here. I'm simply locking the topic of someone who has proven themselves to be unable to carry on conversations with people without resorting to forcing beliefs on those people at the same time as totally ignoring their viewpoints.


James.

[Anonymous]

hmm... well, let me put it this way. Why do we avoid chat rooms? There's more porn advertised there than chatting. This website is high-quality because people don't spam. I can understand that Allanon, Goingslow, and xvirus are "extremist." I myself wouldn't do what they do. They need to realize that what they do is wrong. If this is an issue, it should be addressed and confronted. What makes it an issue? Well, they can't spam the way a porn-bot does in a chat room because of (a) the flooding prevention, and (b) because it takes way too much time and energy to keep typing the spam. If they keep typing, they'll simply be blocked. But I think these people can be reckoned with, but it will take some time. If we wait a week, and do nothing but implement our philosophies on this issue, then we can show them what the consequences of their actions have been- and they cannot deny it because it is concrete evidence.

The reason I was angry about the post being locked is because I didn't see the point of locking the post, either because of a misunderstanding, or because of my perspective on these individuals' posts (meaning Goingslow, xvirus, and Allanon), which was, quite simply, that though I may disagree with their viewpoints and even the way they are posting, I feel it's important to examine what they say and analyze them before responding. What bothers me is that I cannot see why they should be banned right now. xvirus seems to be really immature because of the outlandish posts he's been giving everyone. Because he seems immature, his posts, it seems, are disregarded because people understand that he is not at a level of understanding as most people on this site, so they don't worry about it. Allanon seems so set in his ways and seems to wish to try to force others to be like him in the sense that he wants them to be Christian and have the same beliefs. Goingslow can be quite blunt and seems to lack subtlety, and also has a way of being a little crude and harsh at times, which many find quite insulting.

If the majority of people on this site agree that these individuals are flawed in such ways, then we should recognize that these flaws are affecting their posts, and we should ignore them. Or we should analyze these individuals and try to help them to a higher level of understanding. They can only help themselves. All we can do is point them in the right direction, and be patient. There is much distraction in the world, and this is one of them. Rather than ignore their posts, why not strengthen ourselves by reading their posts and using them to our advantage in terms of our spiritual development? This forum is like a community in cyberspace. We all "know" each other through them, though I don't think we will ever truly know each other unless we meet in person (or in the astral).  I understand we can only do so much to help them before we become consumed by the issue, and at that point, then yes, they should be banned, at least twice temporarily, and the third time permanently.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. I don't know what Allanon has posted lately, but obviously banning him didn't solve anything because he's got a new screen name. I just felt that this particular post was controversial because of its nature. What Allanon/ Narrow Path posted can be worked around and interpreted differently. Though he asked for open-minded individuals only, anyone can do it. There's nothing stopping them, and that's the simple fact. I think that the individuals in question have come here for a reason and have very simple problems that can be easily fixed. In time, they will grow out of these problems.

[Anonymous]

Hi Nita- My kung fu teacher is a Muslim. He's one of my best friends. Despite what Allanon says, I don't believe that all non-christians go to hell. i don't even believe in heaven or hell. I think Heaven only exists if you're God himself, and hell only exists if you believe you have literally no control over what happens to you.

I believe in something similar to what Robert Bruce described in his Treatise on Astral Projection e-book. Not quite the same, but similar. I believe that we work our way from plane to plane, elevating every time we improve ourselves. Though I also believe that we can reincarnate and that reincarnation is a much faster process of spiritual development than being in the astral, waiting so long for that enlightenment to come. i think that the astral world we live in becomes like a pattern and we either recognize it or become stuck in it. That's why reincarnation seems to be faster- unexpected events can occur that can change our viewpoints forever.

[curiousgirl]

i am far from being christian (in fact, i've pretty much hated christianity for a long time), and as annoying as allanon/narrow path can get, the locking of his topic does kind of upset me.  i thought it would be interesting for people to go ahead and take allanon's challenge, and see what the results would be.  not only would it be interesting, but maybe the report of various experiences with jesus or whatever on the astral might actually help narrow path in realizing some things... maybe he can compare them with his own experiences, and perhaps it will help bring them into perspective.  a few members here have mentioned that they have met up with jesus on the astral, before narrow path brought this up, and i thought it would be interesting to hear those experiences.  if you don't want him to preach anymore, than why not just ban him (which for some reason, though he can be pretty obnoxious, i would not approve of this action, either), not lock topics that he pops up.  he even stated that there's

quote:no need for debate here or conflict.  Just the end result of the projection and the challenge.

sure, it's hard to believe that he could make it through this topic without bible-thumping, but he deserves the chance to try to discuss things objectively.  i mean, he's already littering all the other topics with his preaching, what difference will it make to have this topic?  it'll still be more interesting than all those zillions of idiotic topics filling up the forum from that fool xvirus.  

are you afraid that he'll succeed in converting people if those who take up his challenge have profound jesus experiences?  and then we'll have a whole bunch of allanons running around? []

i say let him have his topic and see how it goes.  if he starts failing miserably in his non-preaching efforts, then you can lock it again.  i mean, jeez, why lock this one when he's already started other ones that are preachy or insulting of other religions right off the bat?  this one is an exploratory one, an effort to "gather data" (to continue with the borg analogy []).

[James S]

Hi People, me again,

I understand the feelings presented here -  that somebody, even a radical, should be allowed their say. Unfortunately a line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Since first coming on to this site as Allanon, Narrow Path has shown a consistent and complete disregard for the beliefs of virtually all other members of this forum. His first and most fervent denunciations have been towards the art of astral projection. Combine that with the fact that he has not once shown an inclination to actually consider the views of other members here, but would rather shoot down their arguments with bible verses and dogma, the idea that he would actually be interested in what people might have to say about being able to project back through time to the crucifixion of Jesus, and then deliver a report that complies with his beliefs just does not seem realistic.

Every one of Allanon's posts so far have been loaded questions, designed as a vehicle for him to push his beliefs on others. Enough is enough. If he wants to debate theories and ideas like a rational person he is welcome to. So far he has consistently proven that he cannot or will not do this.

Please everyone understand that this has nothing to do with any kind of anti-christian sentiments. Since the beginning of this site, christians and non christians alike have been able to discuss their ideas in a respectful and friendly manner, listening to and considering the opinions of others. People who come on this site weilding their single minded agenda as being the absolute truth, disrespecting or denouncing the thoughts and beliefs of every member here who does not see their absolute truth, and sew seeds of such discord as is being done now, are not welcome.

Respectfully,
James.

[Anonymous]

Hi James

If you look at his other posts, his disregard for others' beliefs is hypocritical because at one poin he too was a non-Christian. I now understand what you are saying when you say he disregards others' beliefs, and I agree with you. One of the most important aspects of the Christian religion is tolerance. Allanon also needs to master the fine art of subtlety. I still feel that this one particular topic did not need to be locked, because of its nature. What I would like to know is, if someone else had posted it, would it still have been locked?

[Adrian]

Greetings everyone,

I have no intention on adding my views to this discussion because I have said it all before, but I would like to point out in no uncertain terms that the Astral Chat forum is not the place for any religious posts; we have created the World Religions forums specifically for that purpose, and to avoid side issues such as this.

If the post is at all religious, it should be posted in those forums where anyone interested can read and respond, and to avoid everyone being exposed to such religious issues here. Religion is outside of the charter of the Astral Pulse, however, we recognise the right for everyone to hold a view on these things and reconcile it against Spiritual, mystical and occult issues.

Providing everyone posts in the correct forums, everything should be just fine.

With best regards,

Adrian.

[Anonymous]

So has allanon been banned? I don't care anymore because I understand why. By the way- thanks for your understanding. Just one other thing I'd like to note- many people who have been banned have made other screen names. Suppose they keep doing this. What can be done about it?

[Nita]

Hello Everyone
  I think James and Adrian put it properly. Religions can be discussed in the new forum. James has it correct on what Allanon does to other memberts. Enderwiggin if he does have a new name then he is again proving what James is talking about in his message. A total and complete lack of feeling for anyone or anything but his own views.
  It comes down to the agendas I am mentioning. You yourself noted that these forums are for discussion and sharing views. Yet we are getting people with their own agendas causing problems. Why do they feel they have the right to do this to others?
  They do not care what others think they are correct. No one elses views matter. They are on a mission or want to accomplish something on these forums. They also do not identify us as people with concerns but in some group enmasse that is classified by sinners, etc.
  How did Hitler get everyone to go along with murdering the jews, gypsies and catholics in concentration camps? Jews were classed as a group of people not Richard my friend down the street. Gypsies were classed as a group. Catholics were classed as a group. Does anyone really want people classifying them as a group. I don't.
  I come here to enjoy the posts not to hear people trying to force others into their views. People like that live in their own realities and have real problems.
  Nita

[Anonymous]

agreed.

[Narrow Path]

quote:Hi Nita- My kung fu teacher is a Muslim. He's one of my best friends. Despite what Allanon says, I don't believe that all non-christians go to hell. i don't even believe in heaven or hell.

By the way I have never propogated an eternal torment hell. There is no eternal hell in the way that you are thinking.

I have said however that the judgement is real. You will reap what you have sown. All Christians do is decide to put Jesus at their place in the sentencing.

[Mustardseed]

Well I guess that I should have my say as well. As some of you know I am a very believing Christian. Recently I prayed about it and I feel that it would be wise to ban Narrow Path. However the ban should be becourse of his consistant agression sarcasm snide disrespectful remarks. I believe that he is multiplying a neg (spirit) as a virus to infect others, and that this is a bad thing and in opposition to what he claims he believes. For all I know he could be a compleate unbeliever who is trying to turn people against Christianity, and doing a good job at it. I have told him myself several times and hope that something will be done.

HOWEVER and that is a however in Capital letters.Beware people, I find it very problematic that some of you would ban him for having and arguing beliefs opposite to your own. This to me is blatant hypocracy. If your ideas and your faith, philosophy or whatever can not deal with his kind I would say there are questions you should ask yourself. I find that there is a beginning attempt to censor and manipulate on the site that you should all be concerned about. Read the post "too many stickys" .We are being told that stickys are applied becourse certain posts are beneficial to read for all. HELLO PEOPLE wake up here. Are you all really as open as you claim or is there a certain accepted "belief system" that one needs to adhere to, and are you being herded in a direction without your own knowledge? I dont know but censurship is problematic. Are monotheistic beliefs labelled as heresy and are Christians specifically threatening , so much so that you consider to "terminate" the ones who does adhere to such views and embraces a belief oriented dogma. Selah

I am sort of wondering if I am gonna get in trouble too for posts like this. Feel like I did in school or Church that the teacher could come any moment and hit me in the head with her keychain.

Regards Mustardseed

[James S]

Hi Mustardseed,

For all the reasons you mentioned, because of his attitude and NOT because of his beliefs, Allanon/Narrow Mind has now been blocked from this site.

Nobody's beliefs are invalid. Nobody's arguments in support of their beliefs are invalid, providing they do not argue them in a thoughtless, arrogant or provoking manner. What will invalidate someone's belief i s the evidence of gross hypocrisy by way of bad attitudes that go against the very core of the belief.

With that in mind, no Mustardseed, you don't have to worry.[]

Nuff said!

James.

[Nick]

Ok I have to respond to certain comments by Mustardseed as I have, on occassion, made the unforgivable reference to "sticky" topics.

quote:Originally posted by Mustardseed

We are being told that stickys are applied becourse certain posts are beneficial to read for all...are you being herded in a direction without your own knowledge?

No actually, if I refer to the "sticky" topics and the member chooses to read them, I believe they are exercising both their knowledge and free will.

As I pointed out to you in the other forum you brought this up in, no one is forcing anyone to read anything they don't want to read. In my personal view, however, the sticky topics are beneficial if you are interested in the particular subject matter reflected therein. Further, the subject matter in the Astral Consciousness forum stickies reflect a principal theme of the forum itself, the astral.


Very best,

[Mustardseed]

Ok then I get that point. Actually I have read them. I guess in this day and age it important to be vigilant in these matters and ask questions if you feel the need. I am ok with NP being banned. Maybe that will make him think twice (though I somehow doubt it) and I am glad its for the right reasons