The PHYSICAL resurrection of the Lord Jesus

[WalkerInTheWoods]

What use would a physical body be to Jesus once he left the physical plane?

[kakkarot]

quote:Originally posted by fallnangel77

What use would a physical body be to Jesus once he left the physical plane?

to come back to.

however, i have heard similar stories about a few very advanced buddhists of old being able to leave their body so completely that it was dead and then returning to it and living again physically. so i personally don't think that being resurrected was jesus most "impossible" feat (especially considering he *gave* up his spirit when he "died").

i personally think jesus greatest miracle that has yet to be copied or reproduced is him feeding 5000 men (women and children weren't counted) on one occassion and another 3000 men (women and children weren't counted) on another occassion. i've yet to hear of that being able to be done by anyone else.

changing vinegar to wine: could be done through alchemy or magic.

healing the sick: through magic. and it obviously wasn't that radical of a thing to happen if the pharasees of the law *saw* jesus do it on one (or more) occassion and *still* though him merely a blasphemer.

forgiving sins: well, anyone can *say* they've forgiven sins, so there is no actual proof that jesus did. one can only take this "miracle" on faith.

raising the dead (lazerus): i've yet to hear of any non-obscure stories regarding anyone else raising the dead even though folk lore and myth is rife with it.


there is no doubt that jesus was powerful at *something*, although many non-christians would quickly claim it is just magic or some other metaphysical practice, i am very secure in my opinion that jesus is the son of God (and for many more reasons than just him feeding a few thousand people. however those reasons are personal experiences and would easily be dismissed by others, hence why i do not post them). so to answer your question narrowpath, i do believe that he physically died and physically came back to life.

~kakkarot

[Mustardseed]

I believe

[Tab]

Considering the similar stories of going into hell and rising again that predate Jesus, and the number of other beliefs that were integrated into Christianity, I'm inclined to conclude the answer from the trend. But, I don't know if Jesus' claimed ressurection was a feat of spiritual masterism, an allegory, or a plagiarism. Neither do you.

[no_leaf_clover]

There is absolutely no evidence that Jesus ever rose from the dead or any such ridiculous claims, or even that anyone ever witnessed it. In fact, there is evidence that he didn't even die on the cross, but went on to have children that would rule as kings throughout Europe. The evidence for this can be found in various places, and there are several books on it that you can purchase from Amazon.com. Such are listed below.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0684848910/ref=pd_bxgy_text_1/102-6373064-2708154?v=glance&s=books&st=*

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0440136482/102-6373064-2708154?vi=glance

Thanks to Terrance for the links. They were gathered from a formerly active topic regarding Jesus (http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4764&whichpage=1) .

[James S]

My take on this....

This is just an opinion so feel free to agree with it, pick it to pieces or shoot it down as you please -

If I look at what is spoken of by the ascensionists, they believe that to ascend, the body changes to a higher vibration. In terms I prefer - the matter of the physical body does a quantum leap in its energy level and frequency to a point where matter (which could be described as frozen energy) becomes free energy again and ascends into a higher plane of existence. We sometimes communicate with such beings in the higher realms - angels, certain alien races, etc. who exist on a different energetic level to our own.

If we take the Shroud of Turin to be the actual burial cloth of Jesus as has been suggested, tests done to it in recent times have shown what appears to be kind of scorch marks on it, such as would be made by a form of energy dissipation. Put this togetehr and you have Jesus, still wrapped in the Shroud, converting his body matter into energy, with some flare-off damage done to the shroud in the process. So now he ascends, not just as a spirit with the remnants of a body left behind as is the normal case, but as a corporeal being having being transformed into a non-corporeal being.

It's just one of those things that seems to make sense to me.

Regards,
James.

[Rob]

I remember Red Elk, big native american indian bloke, talking about this subject matter. He was saying that there is a tradition with them that, if a truly deeply spiritual person ("love on a stick" is how I think he described them) died, they would leave his body out in a sacred circle for 3 or 5 days or something, and if he had not walked back in to camp by the end of that time, they'd bury him/her. He claims to have died once or twice already, no big deal. I dont see why it should not be possible.
Further I remember reading about a very spiritual Russian bloke, a Christian (I've been trying to find his name again for ages, no luck...), that when he died his body stayed rosy and fresh for over a week, and he looked like he was just sleeping. At the higher rates of vibration which the body will maintain after the soul has left, disease and decay organisms (lower, dirty enegy), will not be able to get a hold. My take, anyway!

Rob

[Mustardseed]

Further I remember reading about a very spiritual Russian bloke, a Christian (I've been trying to find his name again for ages, no luck...), that when he died his body stayed rosy and fresh for over a week, and he looked like he was just sleeping.


You may be talking about Rasputin??

[Beth]

Wow humans (and quasi-humans![8D])!!  This is GOOD stuff... and I HAVE TO join in!![]

timeless, the things you speak of from Living with the Himalayan Masters is SO VERY like the picture that you get of Jesus when you take all of the texts that we possess into consideration.  

First, when Jesus told his disciples that he now had to go to Jerusalem and suffer there, Peter vehemently objected.  This is the scriptural quote from Matthew 16:21-23:

quote:21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. 22Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"
23Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

In this, I take it that Peter did not understand what Jesus had tried to teach him about his destiny.  It also shows an "attachment" to Jesus that Peter was not willing to let go of.

The very next verses explain more that is also comparable in a way  to Swami Rami's account. This from Matthew 17:1-9:

quote:171After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
4Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters--one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah." 5While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Listen to him!"
6When the disciples heard this, they fell facedown to the ground, terrified. 7But Jesus came and touched them. "Get up," he said. "Don't be afraid." 8When they looked up, they saw no one except Jesus. 9As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, "Don't tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead."

I hope everyone else sees the similarities here!

The next thing that I have to offer comes from a Christian Apocrypha text--The Acts of John. (I have quoted this text in another post elsewhere.)  The opening sentences of this text can compare to the yogis who can enter into other bodies--well sort of anyway![]

From the Acts of John--Chapters 88-93:

quote:For when he had chosen Peter and Andrew which were brothers, he came to me and to my brother James, saying, "I need you; come to me!" And my brother said this to me, "John, what does he want, this child on the shore who called us?" And I said, "What child?" And he answered me, "The one who is beckoning to us."  And I said, "This is because of the long watch we have kept at sea.  You are not seeing right brother James.  Do you not see the man standing there who is handsome, fair, and cheerful-looking?" But he said to me, "I do not see that man my brother. But let us go and we will see what this means."

And when we had brought the boat to land, we saw how he also helped us to beach the boat.  And as we left the place, wishing to follow him, he appeared to me again as rather bald-headed but with a thick flowing beard, but to James as a young man whose beard was just beginning.  So we wondered, both of us, about the meaning of the vision we had seen. Then, as we both followed him we became gradually more perplexed about this matter.  

This text goes on to speak about the different ways in which Jesus would appear.  On many occasions as a child to some, and as a more mature man to others.  Sometimes, the text relates, he was "a solid body" and at others his substance was "immaterial and incorporeal and as if it did not exist at all."

There are many other references to this kind of thing with Jesus scattered throughout the many texts that I have read.  I think the time has come for a comparative study of the texts from both east and west that will surely shed a great deal of "light" (no pun intended, but it works as one!) on our more complete existence with both the physical and divine realms.
(I would, but my hands are full at the moment, but, if no one else does...maybe I will one day???[])

So, am I just overly tired [|)], or does this brief comparative study compute with anyone else???[]

Anyway, this is now a great discussion, let's keep it going if we can!

Peace,
Beth

[Beth]

Timeless,

Hey there!

quote:Perhaps I will share more about this remarkable man and his experiences.

That would be great, but at the same time, I would like to see you also start a thread in the world religion section and copy and paste your posts to that one as well.  Would you consider sharing this in both sections?  

quote:It is very interesting that many talk about Jesus' lost years having been spent in India or the Far East. Was this a hint that some of these ideas came from there? Is there any real evidence that Jesus' lost years (either in reality or metaphorically) were spent in the Far East?

Well, you know my take on it will be metaphorical!![]  But there are also other views to be heard.  While there is no solid evidence that Jesus was ever physically in the Far East (or the Near East for that matter) scholar's are finding ample evidence that in ancient times both the East and the West were all discovering and writing about essentially the same things. Of course it must be stated that, a great deal of what was written in the east, was aleady written by the time of Jesus.  There is, however, a lot of evidence that there were no borders between the east and the west, and that travel to the Orient was already a common thing by the first century, albeit that it took quite a while to get there and back!!  So yes, there definately IS evidence of shared ideas!!

Now, this is NOT necessarily the representation of Jesus that we have today, and this is where the dialogue breaks down.  It will only be through "lifting the ideas out of the writings" and comparing them in the language of today, that we will be able to figure out in what ways the east and the west "were on the same page."  In my opinion, they were talking about the same thing, and the myths of the east and the myths of the west both reflect the same ideas.  In my mind, this is not about the physical presence of a man named Jesus, but rather, the metaphysical meaning of Jesus.

There are already quite a few books comparing Jesus to Sidhartha Buddha, (and Mustardseed I think you mentioned Melchelzideck in one of your posts--the early Christians, as Jews, did the same thing with him and Jesus) and we are just at the beginning of all that we can discover.[]

Peace,
Beth

[Narrow Path]

Ok,

[?] I am curious as to who here believes in the physical resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ as an actual event [?]

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