Ayahuasca - Vine of the Dead....

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Blah, drugs are too expense and you have to wait too long to get them. Go to your bathroom or kitchen and get a nice sharp blade and run it deep into your wrists. Or if you have a gun and a bullet apply it to your head. If you happen to have some good alcohol and a bottle of sleeping pills then you can drift off to the astral easy. There are so many easy ways to get to the astral I cannot list them all here. There is one little catch, you can't come back to the physical (atleast in you present body), but the astral is SO much better why would you want to!

[Narrow Path]

Hehe,

if you guys only knew.[8D]

[Tisha]

here is my little contribution to the drug debate:

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7271

The teaching entities who reside within hallucinogenic drugs have a vicious, twisted sense of humor.  They WILL teach you, but they will do this by giving you exactly what you ask for . . . or deserve.  So if you meet a demon or Satan while tripping, you have no one to blame but yourself.  You sent the invitation, you held the door open for him, you handed him his slippers.

Folks who don't understand this . . . just don't get it!  

[PeacefulWarrior]

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/search.asp?mode=DoIt

There are NUMEROUS threads regarding this and other drugs, although
I couldn't find the specific links to all the info.

In the end I agree with Tisha on the subject and that's all I have to say.

[Nick]

That was a good explanation Tisha and it makes a lot of sense. I can only echo what others have said above and also relate a quote that I've posted before. It is from Astral Dynamics, take a look at pages 373 and 374, I think what Robert Bruce says makes a lot of sense:

"The only cases I have come across where projectors have had seriously bad experiences with lower subplanes involved hallucinogenic drugs being used to precipitate out-of-body experiences. Drugs, while capable of causing out-of-body experiences, sidestep the required skills and abilities necessary for safe conscious-exit projections. This breaks many natural laws concerning projection while artificially overcoming many natural safeguards and barriers. Natural barriers are there to protect the novice from operating in dimensional areas they are not equipped to experience."


Very best,

[James S]

Thanks for saving me the time of looking up the page references Nick. This is exactly what I had in mind when posting this. I've heard too many accounts of problems from drug induced OBE's to ignore the validity of Roberts comments. When you look at the mechanics of it, his comments make good sense.

James.

[Spirit_k9]

There isn't much sense using drugs of any type, natural or synthetic, to achieve spiritual experiences if spiritual growth is what you are after. You need to learn to shift your awareness without the aid of drugs....after all, when you're dead and need to continue your journey, where ya gonna score that good old salvia or datura plant?

You already knew this though...  

Freedom also means being free from inhibitors to that end, where would you be without the drugs as inhibitors? My gosh, you'd have to work at it and learn wouldn't ya! Tragic!





[]

[Narrow Path]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0892819278/104-7300399-8685569?v=glance

You all need to pick up this book.

One thing to note however.

I have seen more in ten hours in the CO mountains with sacraments than the average "projector" has seen in ten years.

Thats ok though. Stick to your placebo method.

Its like Terrance McKenna when he says, "Meditation is great huh!! You close your eyes and see a black screen. You fall asleep a lot of the time. But once in a while you get lucky and a little "fuzzy" spot of color goes across your field of vision. WOW!! Now meditation with 5 - MEO DMT is another matter. Strap yourself in and prepare for mock ten!!! Not only will you see what you have never thought possible you will know what you never could dream."

[Tab]

... fool

[James S]

quote:Originally posted by Narrow Path

I have seen more in ten hours in the CO mountains with sacraments than the average "projector" has seen in ten years.

Is your testemonial here supposed to make us think its good?

You come to this site fanatically preaching about the salvation of Jesus and how necessary it is because of all the demons out in the astral just waiting to decieve us. It seems to me that those who have spent years building the skills of projecting without any use of drugs do not encounter the kind of horrors that you speak of. Why? Because they are in control of what they are doing. They are not breaking the natural boundaries imposed by the astral on travellers who are inexperienced

Your drug induced OBEs sound to me just like a friend who spoke of descending to hell and seeing the burning lakes of fire. This was a result of a bad LSD trip.

[Narrow Path]

quote:Is your testemonial here supposed to make us think its good?

You come to this site fanatically preaching about the salvation of Jesus and how necessary it is because of all the demons out in the astral just waiting to decieve us. It seems to me that those who have spent years building the skills of projecting without any use of drugs do not encounter the kind of horrors that you speak of. Why? Because they are in control of what they are doing. They are not breaking the natural boundaries imposed by the astral on travellers who are inexperienced

Your drug induced OBEs sound to me just like a friend who spoke of descending to hell and seeing the burning lakes of fire. This was a result of a bad LSD trip.

Doesnt the Truth of hell matter to anyone anymore?

Or are we back at Sodom and Gemorra?

[Tab]

I don't see where you find any truth in the doctrine of hell, or sense for that matter. I guess you missed that post.

And btw, Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing to do with denying/believing in hell, mostly because the Zoroastrian concept of hell wouldn't be introduced to the Jews for another few centuries. It did however result directly from the villagers trying to rape the angels. Never taught me that part in catholic school.

[LA FORET MAUVE]

In my experience, drugs like mushrooms and LSD were full of love and gave me good experiences. It changed my life in good, gave me new insights and resolved quickly some bad psychologicals problems i had (like a psycho therapy). I also experimented unconditionnal and cosmic love and the merging with the universe. I know it's not the case for everybody. But i really can't understand when even pacific people like the users of this forum are spiting over those sacred substances.
What's wrong people ?

[Tisha]

La Foret Mauve, you experienced cosmic love because you were full of cosmic love at that moment in time. You merged with the universe because you were capable of it. And that is wonderful, congrats on a positive experience!

I am not an anti-drug fanatic.  All I am trying to say to people is THE MIND MATTERS!  Make careful choices, people!

[Spirit_k9]

I agree Tisha. I'm not an anti drug fanatic either. Ingesting plants has a purpose, but it's not intended for continuous daily or even weekly use. That's abusive and the spirit of the plant will catch up with you.

The native Americans I speak to have taught me that there is a specific way to use these plants; The spiritual leader of the 'group' does not generally partake in these things. He/she will be the guide for other group members while they ingest a plant (or combination of plants) for contacting specific spirits or in order to resolve certain issues in that individual. Plant ingesting was not meant as a tool to continually use in order to achieve spiritual growth or progression, it doesn't provide that, it merely provides a temporary window into an alternate reality or a shift in awareness to a different configuration, allowing a completely different perspective on the issue at hand. Continual use will retard and/or degrade spiritual growth, not progress it.

Anyone that ingests plants regularly is abusing them as well their own body. I'd advise anyone that asks about it to avoid the drug route all together, as it is really only supposed to be used when other alternatives have not worked, or there is an urgent need based on the individuals situation.

[Anonymous]

the only thing I've ever done was pot (aside from alcohol, of course), and the only reason I did it was to understand what those who have tried drugs have experienced, so that I could make a more valid decision and relate to what they are saying. I enjoyed my experience.

Marajuana is a very controversial drug because it has similar effects to being drunk (it is mostly harmless) and it is also used for medicinal purposes. I take the side of those who support it (but I don't support any other drugs, even legal ones).

If you want to use drugs to gain enlightenment... I think it's important to keep in mind that ALL drugs DISTORT REALITY. How can a person gain enlightenment from a distortion? That's like looking in a warped mirror and saying, "Gee, my head is really lopsided and funny-looking today" (well, maybe in some peoples' cases this is true, but maybe they look in that mirror and say "Gee, my head is really normal-looking today.").

The natural way is the best way. It is the only way. I'm not adamantly against drungs (I smoked pot (well, I smoke it once a year) so that would make me a hypocrite... I also drink). All I'm saying is, don't use them for enlightenment. It's not a smart thing to do. I don't have a problem with people who drink or smoke (pot) socially, or for people who do it to relieve a great deal of tension or for medicinal reasons (pot). I agree with James and the rest of what people have said (as well as La Foret Mauve).

[Narrow Path]

Ender,

Drugs such as Psilocybin mushrooms DO NOT DISTORT REALITY.

It has been proven by science that what that chemical does is bipass the part of the brain that deals with space and time. You no longer look through the eyes of a human. YOU SEE PAST ALL HUMAN CONSTRUCTS ON WHAT REALITY IS!!!

Ender I dont usually say this to anyone but for you I would say TO DO THE VINE OF THE DEAD OR SHROOMS JUST ONE TIME!! It is not even comparable with pot and you will realize more than you ever would "sober".

It is only to be done by warriors who can handle fighting off inner demons and I know you could handle it. I dont say that to too many people.

Corpus Menz Spiritus

Mind Body Spirit

If all three of these are strong than try the Vine just once.

[LA FORET MAUVE]

I would agree with the fact that it is not a good thing to take those plants regulary but anyway, they are (the hallucinogens) non-addictive and i never met someone who wanted to take it regulary and it is impossible because of the body tolerance. It is for 6 years now that i didn't took any mushrooms but they still are my everyday masters...
Ender...you can't say yhat drug distort the reality, you could say that they shift the distortion of the reality that you are doing everyday and are calling "the reality". We put a screen between our conscious and our senses because we can't support the experience of infinite on a daily basis...
And if you didn't tried the other substances, you can't make any statements, just hypothesis. I don't see why it would be not smart to take the plants for illumination, it is their purpose. It does not change the fact that you must work hard to obtain it by yourselve but the value of the experience for your life is enormous. Anyway, the illumination is not automatic with the psychedelics, it depends of your mind. Why on earth do people feel that it is "unfair" to have an enlightment by meeting the spirit in a plant or by actioning the mechanisms in our brain that were waiting for ? On the contrary, it is the recreationnal use wich is a problem...see all those kids who are speaking on the web about those sacraments like if it were some kind of funny video games...this is this attitude wich is stupid and dangerous, not the "illumination searching" one...because it implies quest for knowledge,love and respect, prudence, determination and silence.

[Narrow Path]

I agree Mauve.

[Squeek]

Wow... nobody has said the one thing that matters most on the subject!

"Drugs are bad...mmkay.  Don't do drugs."
Thank you Mr. Macky.

~Squeek

[Anonymous]

Once when I tried weed I asked God if it was wrong to do, and why. He told me that I needed to do what I thought was right for me. I decided I'd like to develop my own natural ability. However, just as one's body sometimes requires the aid of herbs and medicines to combat disease, I think that everyone has the right to make the decision for him or her self. If I ever did shrooms or vine of the dead or even peote, I would not do it unless it was in the presence of one of the spiritual leaders who regularly work with these things. And don't forget that shrooms grow on fecal matter (eeew!). I don't think I'll be trying them antime soon.

And what about those demons that can supposedly haunt you for the rest of your life? What's that all about?

Either way, I don't think anyone deserves judgement from others for trying this stuff but at the same time nobody should go around advocating it either. Everyone's different. I think it's the same with religion. Nobody should advocate their religion to others because it's up to them to decide what is best for them. it's like going to a restaurant and having someone tell you how delicious their broccoli is and that you should try it. What if you don't like broccoli? It isn't going to be so delicious. Or maybe all you need is a pizza. I think it's important that everyone makes their own choices. I think it's fine to tell others about your experience but that doesn't mean they're going to have the same experience. I think that for drugs like these, there are certain requirements. Maybe people who have bad trips are simply not ready for the drug. Has anyone considered this? Maybe once they are ready to handle the drug they can handle the things the drugs show them. I really hate using the word "drug" because I feel it has a negative connotation. The government tells us drugs are bad and never to do them. But people still do. There must be a reason. This is one of those things that can never be solved because of how different everyone is.

[Anonymous]

Also- you're right La Foret Mauve, I can't make a judgement about something I have no first (or second) hand experience with, so I retract my previous judgement. I don't know anyone who has done shrooms or what their experiences were. I have seen one of my friends on LSD (he only did it twice). From what I observed I don't think it has done him any harm. I wouldn't try LSD because I know people who have and they say it stays in your spine and that you can randomly have another trip because of this. That's sort of dangerous, especially if you're driving and then you see a giant pink elephant break-dancing ahead of you in your lane. Hey, what the...? *slams on breaks, swirves off the road* lol

[LA FORET MAUVE]

quote:Originally posted by EnderWiggin

I wouldn't try LSD because I know people who have and they say it stays in your spine and that you can randomly have another trip because of this.

Sorry, but it is another myth on Lsd...[xx(]

[Anonymous]

Not according to my friend who tried it. He said that he was driving one day and he actually had a very short trip. It goes away over time but it takes awhile.

[PeacefulWarrior]

Regarding the topic of "flashbacks" I must ask a few questions in order to explain what I know about this so called phenomenon:  Once you have learned to meditate can you ever forget how to?  Do you suddenly have flashbacks to an OBE or dream and crash your car?  Probably not...and it's the same with LSD or any other psychadelic substance.  I must mention, however, that the probablity of someone turning out "burned out" or otherwise "damaged" to some degree who has done these drugs is muchn higher.  Although psychadelics are not physically addicitive, many people who use/abuse these substances are more likely to abuse other, more serious "hard" drugs such as meth, cocaine/crack, heroin, etc.  and those are the bad boys that never leave you the same.