The Pledge (Not about 'under God')

Nagual · October 16, 2003, 08:46:34

Oh my god!! You are anti-patriotic!!! Terrorist!!! [:O]
Bush will use his super "patriot act" to secretly throw u in jail without any trial!! [

][

]

Joking aside, I hate patriotism... Basicaly it's "we are the best, screw the others"... It's no different than street gangs... just at a country level.

In France, the closest would be a few hours of "civic education", where you learn that you live in a community and you should respect others... Other than that, nope, not much brain washing here. At least none that I can see; except for some far right extremist/racist minorities...

Van-Stolin · October 16, 2003, 12:21:13

Well, they don't make you say the pledge, but it still sucks that they make you stand. I really don't see the point in it either.

I feel shocked by most peoples responce to it with. "If you don't like it get out." I mean this is a 'free country' right?

Squeek · October 16, 2003, 13:14:34

Instead of "Hey, if you don't like it GET OUT!"

Let's make it...

"Hey, if you don't like it, MOVE TO SQUEEKTOPIA!!!"

Squeektopia rocks.. I have this island in the pacific ocean that always has the perfect temperature and an endless supply of food and high-speed internet service from my own satellite!

Someday.... []

~Squeek

jc84corvette · October 16, 2003, 13:20:10

I do not mind saying it daily! I love it! It makes me feel good! To me it sounds like doing what every American has to do, not a dictatorship.

no_leaf_clover · October 16, 2003, 17:24:49

quote:
Well, they don't make you say the pledge, but it still sucks that they make you stand. I really don't see the point in it either.

I feel shocked by most peoples responce to it with. "If you don't like it get out." I mean this is a 'free country' right?

Hmm.. I wonder if they can really make you stand. They would most probably tell you to stand if they noticed, but as to whether or not they can legally make you do it.. that's a good question. Do you have to stand and honor something that you may refuse to say?

When they recite the pledge at school, I just stand up and make stupid noises quietly to myself. Every now and then I throw in an 'under Satan!' just for a nice touch.

Squeek · October 16, 2003, 18:08:49

Nice No_leaf... very nice [|)]

Most of the people in my school don't utter a word during the pledge...they just stand there with their hands in their pockets wondering what to have for lunch.

Most of the people in my school also don't so a thing for the "moment of silence"...except talk. Nobody cares. I don't either. The classes that the pledge and moment are in are both computer classes, and you just don't interrupt my WORK man!!

~Squeek

beavis · October 16, 2003, 18:22:45

fallnangel77 That seems more dictatorshipish than democratic

You have uncovered the real type of government of USA! We are part dictatorship (bush) and part republic (vote for people) and no part democratic (vote for laws).

jc84corvette · October 16, 2003, 18:54:37

All teens act like they dont give a f*ck during the pledge. That is normal, all teens are like that.

I think this government is a "dictatorship/republic" because of people's unpatriotic remarks. A kid grows up not giving a shi* about the flag but he has a nack for politics and sooner or later he is a Governor then the president. Therfore you get a corrupt president in office witch leads to a "dictatorship/republic". My 2 cents.

beavis · October 16, 2003, 19:08:09

The biggest problem with USA government is that it got rid of the constitution years ago.

jc84corvette · October 16, 2003, 19:22:41

Hey Bevis, do you listen to the "Mike Savage Show"? He talks about that stuff you rattle on and on about [

]. He to said that the U.S. Government lost its constitution.

cainam_nazier · October 17, 2003, 00:13:57

I can understand the why we said the pledge in school. At the time of course I did not understand it, but now I do. In my view it is not a point of control or any thing like that. But instead I suggest that it is used so that people start at a young age to feel pride in the place that they live. We pledge to the ideals that the flag holds not to the flag itself. The flag is a symbol of what we were and the pledge is a symbol of our hope for a better future.

We want liberty and justace for ALL, not just Americans.

clandestino · October 17, 2003, 01:10:36

I didn't have to recite any kind of pledge, in Scotland or England...

I don't think its a bad thing being proud of your country, though ! I wish that people in the UK were a bit more patriotic. Particularly English folks...the flag of st.George's has been associated too closely with far-right groups of late.

Nagual · October 17, 2003, 01:14:28

What good is patriotism?
What good is pride?

jc84corvette · October 17, 2003, 13:56:13

Showing respect to your Military, police, and government. Although you may dislike them, you keep your feelings to your self. You participate in stuff like voteing and local gvnt. meetings.

Arcane · October 17, 2003, 21:07:26

quote:
Originally posted by Nagual

What good is patriotism?
What good is pride?

I think pride is needed to a degree. For example, taking pride in your work often leads to an improved standard of whatever it is you are doing.

I couldn't tell you what is good with patriotism though.

cainam_nazier · October 17, 2003, 23:01:18

What good are pride and patriotism?.....Oh my, I am going to need my smokes.
Here we go.

It is true pride has its down points. Most people that it can only lead to the kind of person who is too proud to ask for help. But pride has so many good points as well, to include the stuborn aspect often associated with it. For the most part pride makes you happy for both you and other people. You do a task that you thought you would never be able to do, step back, look at it and say, "I did that." That's pride, pride in ones self, pride in ones ablilty, and it makes you feel good about yourself.

What about the things that you do that you are not proud of? That lack of pride often makes you want to try and change things. Mostly this deals with ones self but still. The lack of pride in some thing can also be a driving force to rectify a situation. It make you want to change things into something that you can take pride in.

Patriotism and pride go hand in hand. In my opinion a true patriot loves thier country but can see what is wrong with it. The pride one feels for being who they are makes them want to fix those things that they see wrong with thier country. A true patriot does not have to agree with ever choice made by the leaders of thier country, but they must be willing to voice thier opinion when they think something was not done right. A true patriot takes on the responsibility of trying to help guide thier country into a better future. A true patriot wants thier country to lead by example, not by force. A true patriot knows that no matter what system of government a person lives under it is ultimately ruled by the people and not those in charge. A true patriot is willing to fight to make thier country, thier home a better place for thier children.

Nagual · October 18, 2003, 02:17:00

To be proud only affects your ego; you can do a good job without having to feel pride. But, as long as it is not at the expense of others, sure... why not feel pride...

I find patriotism a little... hum... selfish; not as in only you are important but as in only your group/country is important... It's the same at lower levels, like family, friends, group, community... For most people, family or friends are always right and the people outside these circles are wrong or inferior...

An example: If you have to choose between saving a member of your family or a total stranger... who will you save? I bet you will save your family member. I would too. But, in the end, it is unfair. Both are human beings that deserved the right to live.

For me, to be a patriot is to put your country above all other countries, for no specific reason, except that you leave there... You can see this in all the little childish "wars" between Amercian people and French people by example... You guys do this. But you guys do that. But my dad could kick your dad's butt. Etc... As I said, I see no difference between patriots and gang members...

fairiwings · October 19, 2003, 16:54:41

I think that fairies do exist. I read a book and saw the movie of the same name. & guess what? I can't remember the name of both. As soon as I find the name I will be back to tell you. I have many pictures of faries.[

]

fairiwings · October 19, 2003, 17:03:32

I am 58 years old and I still remember saying the pledge. When I was in elementary school they added "under god" to the pledge. we had a hard time saying that after saying it without "under god" This whole thing is just to get people fired up. Who cares anyway? you can always say "one nation under whatever your name is. [:X]

WalkerInTheWoods · October 16, 2003, 06:16:04

With the recent situation over the Pledge and 'under God' of coarse this has been a topic on many message boards and polls. Something that I found interesting that a few people have brought up is not about religion or God at all. One is, why in a free nation does the government want school children to recite a pledge of allegiance to it every day? That seems more dictatorshipish than democratic. Second, why are we pledging to a piece of cloth anyway? Why are we pledging to a flag?

Since this board is international, I am wondering something. Do/did those of you who live in other countries have to pledge to your nation/government/flag etc.?

News:

The Pledge (Not about 'under God')

beavis

beavis