excuse the n00b

[APGuy]

First of all as far as the morality goes.  Some catholics would say it's evil but that is merely from ignorance.  In The Bible it talks about Jesus travelling spiritually being attached to his body with a silver cord (sound familiar?[])  At least that is what I heard from a very religious Psychic.  
As far as defence goes it is fairly easy.  You could will it away.  If that doesn't work kill it!  Will yourself to have a weapon or will your astral body to be some sort of ravenous beast.  Most of the time by the time you're ready to attack they'll run [].  I've personally never projected before but that's what I've heard. I wish they would stay around so us more agressive people could have some fun[].

[Ramiel]

No offense NEO, but organised religion is a sin, and a complete joke. Take what you're told by the religious flock with a grain of salt, because there is usually a rationale, logical, and truthful side to the negative comments you'll receive from them on these topics.

Open your eyes!

[theNEO]

Thank you for your help.  As, for you Ramiel, I will have to disagree with you on that.  I respect your OPINION but I disagree.  You can not question that there is a higher being at work.  Obviously, someone has put us here on earth.  You just question the authority of the church because you have not experienced God.  I suggest you go to chuch for it is YOU who needs to open their eyes.

Ok, enough of that.  I have another question.  What is the best way to project?  I usually get the vibrations, but I can not seperate.  Help please!

[APGuy]

quote:Originally posted by theNEO

Thank you for your help.  As, for you Ramiel, I will have to disagree with you on that.  I respect your OPINION but I disagree.  You can not question that there is a higher being at work.  Obviously, someone has put us here on earth.  You just question the authority of the church because you have not experienced God.  I suggest you go to chuch for it is YOU who needs to open their eyes.

Ok, enough of that.  I have another question.  What is the best way to project?  I usually get the vibrations, but I can not seperate.  Help please!

I couldn't tell you the best way for you to project because it's different for everyone.  First off ask your higher self or your spirit guide (preferably spirit guide) for help.  In case you don't know what a spirit guide or higher self is you can either ask me to tell you here or in a PM.  Anyways that is a big help but to do it yourself you have to relax and focus your attention away from your body.  It sounds as if you've got the relaxation down so to focus your attention away from your body you have to find your own way.  Some people do something repeatitive such as climbing a rope or going down a ladder.  However some people get bored that way so just keep your focus away from your body by thinking of yourself flying could be a more exciting way.  Whatever works best for you.  It takes practice.  Some people create a scenary and and ask for their spirit guide to come out of the shadows.  They then talk with their spirit guide untill they start to project.  Hope this helps.

[jc84corvette]

YEs remember PRACTICE and keep a positive outlook.

[beavis]

theNEO You can not question that there is a higher being at work.

Thats why I dont like religions. I cant question anything they say.

[The AlphaOmega]

Catholics are religious, because they believe in God.  Astral projection is not here so that we can spy on the girls locker room.  Yes, that is an option, but after all the work you have gone through to reach that state, I don't think spying will be your top priority.  It's spiritual.  It's not a means of going against Gods will, but more a means of becoming more in tune with Gods will.  It's a spiritual experience... a way of KNOWING that conciousness and body are not the same thing.  Basically the undeniable fact that there is an afterlife.  It can be bad, if you use it bad.  That is the purpose of free will.  You can use it to become more in touch with God, or more in touch with the devil.  It's up to you.  Free will is never compromised... not even God will interfere with that.  So it's up to you to decide which side you desire more.  
As for your friends, don't bother trying to convince them.  I've tried to explain my views and what I am trying to accomplish to my friends.  Even those that believe in God think that I am trying to do something evil... which is guite the opposite.  I am using OBE to become more spiritual and closer to God.  But religion has a tendency to get in the way.  The belief in God can be universal, but religion turns that belief into rules and guidelines that must be followed "or else".  
I guess what I'm saying is that being Catholic is good when it teaches about the positive aspects of God... and bad when it limits His teachings to only those that are Catholic.  I hope that makes sense.  Good luck!  Any time you seek the Truth about God, you do no go against God!

[Adkha]

quote:Originally posted by theNEO

Thank you for your help.  As, for you Ramiel, I will have to disagree with you on that.  I respect your OPINION but I disagree.  You can not question that there is a higher being at work.  Obviously, someone has put us here on earth.  You just question the authority of the church because you have not experienced God.  I suggest you go to chuch for it is YOU who needs to open their eyes.

Ok, enough of that.  I have another question.  What is the best way to project?  I usually get the vibrations, but I can not seperate.  Help please!

Allright, since I don't believe and don't know anything, I just question everything so here goes. Whey can't you question a higher being? We human always want to assume that there is something more (just like me, I cannot believe that there is nothing beyond the obvious) But why couldn't it be like this, you have nature, nature does not have a beginning and does not have an end. Nature alwayw have existed and will always be. Nature is always alive and can never be dead. Nature will always balance everything.
So you have Earth, with us human beings, we live our lives, some of us do it happy some of us not, some of us (like members on this forum) search more beyond the obvious.
Why can't the universe, the all-nature be simpel, nature is good, but does care about human-emotions, the only thing that matters, what matters most is balance. IF we human (part of nature) scrue op our planet, use all the sources we can find and stay multiplying, then it's just logical humans will be terminated. Very simpel, nature don't care, he created balance again!
If you assume this is true....you don't need a higher being right?

But as I always say, I don't have wisdom, I only got questions.
It could also be that there is something beyond nature.

comment plz

[eleusis2]

Its been said many times (and by many different people) that there are many paths but only one destination. In other words it doesnt matter whether you are christian, buddhist, hindu etc, all that really matters is whether it feels right for you.

As far as AP goes, i dont think that the bible says, or even implies, that it is a bad thing. In fact there is numerous reference to people "being taken up to heaven". Is it not likely that this was a reference to astral projection? Many religions accept it, its just they have a different name or interpretation for it's meaning.

[TheSeeker]

Why would exploring your spirituality and trying to become more attuned to God, and to learn the truth be anything but good.

I will not bash religion because I will not change anyone's mind, but one thing that really upsets me about most organized religion, is there is no spirituality in it, there are no spiritual practices.  Everything is founded on faith/belief, you do not need to believe, you can know (through experience).  But, how can you have these experiences without knowing some practices (luck aside).

Glad you found us though, hope I didn't offend you, these are just my opinions, and I respect that yours are most likely different.

[theNEO]

You all have some very good points.  You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe, im not going to try to change that.  The basis of a faith is just that, faith.  Nuff said.

[Ramiel]

Heh, you think you know the nature of God []

Maybe..

[JustLikeThePill]

jeez guys.

its not immoral. tell me how? HOW? it happens everynight so i guess were commiting a sin unless we stay away (or die). whats immoral about going to a place you cant see? i cant see egypt right not but its not sinful to go there. Whats immoral about staying awake while your body is asleep? and please dont give me all that bovine excrement about demons possibly taking over your body while your out,l because if they could they could do it everynight weather you asleep or aping.

theres nothing wrong with it. could you please tell us what your friend said about it being immoral?

i am a christian. i'm not a babtist or a methodist or a cathlic or whatever, i'm cant quoat the bible and i dont go to church. i definately dont accept everything the bible says blindly, and i dont listen to everything all these religious mumbo-jumbos say, i decide what i beleive and i listen to others opinions, but its wrong to tell someone what they beleive in isn't right. you can say "well i dont believe that, but i DO believe this....". its dumb to tell him that he can and can not question. your not him.

"You just question the authority of the church because you have not experienced God" WOW! your way more advanced than i am! a mind reader! I have experianced God and i question the church. look at your church, no offense, but wasn't there a big molestation case? Your church isn't perfect, and its STUPID to accept things blindly and go along with what the church says because "they say so" ...


oh, and by the way, i think its very rude to make a poste excusing yourself and calling you a noob, and yet you judge the wonderful members of this forum and tell them what they think, and why they do it.


sometimes its best to find the answer for yourself. REALLY. i have learned that VERY recently.

[Tolvor]

FWIW, I am also a practising Catholic.  As far as the morality of it goes, its somewhat vague.  At its very best its not a mortal sin.  As with most things (computers, tv, power) the use and abuse of the item is what governs the morality of the action.  You have to ask yourself whether experimenting with OBE is fundamentaly deterimental to your perception and relationship with God.

I really don't want to start a flame war on Catholicism.  The origional poster posed the question in that context so I tried to answer it in the same context.  If you don't believe the catholic tenets of faith, fine.  Anyone who tries to shove doctrine down someone else throat is in error.  Religion is meant to be free.

I just know I'm going to get flamed here.  sigh...

[jc84corvette]

Catholics should know of something called faith. You just have to believe some things.

[theNEO]

quote:Originally posted by JustLikeThePill


theres nothing wrong with it. could you please tell us what your friend said about it being immoral?

i am a christian. i'm not a babtist or a methodist or a cathlic or whatever, i'm cant quoat the bible and i dont go to church. i definately dont accept everything the bible says blindly, and i dont listen to everything all these religious mumbo-jumbos say, i decide what i beleive and i listen to others opinions, but its wrong to tell someone what they beleive in isn't right. you can say "well i dont believe that, but i DO believe this....". its dumb to tell him that he can and can not question. your not him.

"You just question the authority of the church because you have not experienced God" WOW! your way more advanced than i am! a mind reader! I have experianced God and i question the church. look at your church, no offense, but wasn't there a big molestation case? Your church isn't perfect, and its STUPID to accept things blindly and go along with what the church says because "they say so" ...

oh, and by the way, i think its very rude to make a poste excusing yourself and calling you a noob, and yet you judge the wonderful members of this forum and tell them what they think, and why they do it.

sometimes its best to find the answer for yourself. REALLY. i have learned that VERY recently.

Why don't you friggin calm down.  My friend questioned the morality because you can basically do what you want in an AP, which whose statement did make a good bit of sense.  But it is what you do with the AP, not the AP itself that is immoral.
 Yes there were molestations, damn priests giving a bad wrap for the whole Church, the Chuurch cannot be blamed, this would fall under the category of free will.  I am not condoning those priests' actions, but it was their free will to do so.  When was I judging anyone?  I was just stating my thoughts on a certain idea, so shut the f*** up.  OOOooo I could just get all ticked like you did, oh no, you told me that it is stupid to accept things blindly, or not.  I accept because I can, and because it is common sense.

Will you please think next time before you speak because you obviously picked up on some ideas that were not actually stated.  

Enough of that.

[JustLikeThePill]

lol. like omg man. WHO said i wasn't calm? you assumed i was angry or upset, when i am perfectly fine. so why dont you friggin stop assuming things?

oh, and i guess accepting things because you can isn't blind.
I guess i was just stating MY on a certain subject too. and WHO is the one getting angry here? it is not i. you yourself are resulting to swearwords.

"I have just recently started trying OBE's. I've tried about 5 times so far, and swear I almost projected a few times. I have a few questions before I actually go through with this: Being a Catholic, I was wondering if there are any moral downfalls to this. It may sound somewhat retarded, but is this a sin? My friend was questioning the morality of this so it made me think. "

as you can see, you asked if astral projecting is immoral, not what you do in the astral plane. theres a difference.

[theNEO]

Yes ok I now understand that and I shall no longer scream at my computer.....  [xx(]

[jc84corvette]

Lets all just calm down down!

[JustLikeThePill]

good. now we can be friends?! [][][]

[theNEO]

I have just recently started trying OBE's.  I've tried about 5 times so far, and swear I almost projected a few times.  I have a few questions before I actually go through with this:  Being a Catholic, I was wondering if there are any moral downfalls to this.  It may sound somewhat retarded, but is this a sin?  My friend was questioning the morality of this so it made me think.  Also, what can be done as far a self defense in the astral dimension.  If I encounter a not so friendly astral being, what can I do to protect myself.  Thank you for your help