Does God/Jesus Exist?

[Skudgett]

[|)]I think that they do!

[James S]

Yes they exist.

Exaxtly how people define them or percieve them is usually subject to great debate, but they exist.

[]
James.

[Logic]

stop asking stupid questions or go away.

[Mustardseed]

Be nice now ok He is just asking!!

[joyrex]

quote:Originally posted by James S

Yes they exist.
Exaxtly how people define them or percieve them is usually subject to great debate, but they exist.

I agree, those words exist and people think about Jesus and God so they exist as imagination, but in some other form? I'm not so sure. What do you think?

[wisp]

joyrex, I'm a believer in what the quote says. What we know (or believe to know) now, can come to be known as something else later. I think it depends on one's openness to change and wanting to find the truth.

It's already been mentioned, the only proof one needs is what one discovers for him/herself. Faith isn't faith anymore once you have proof for yourself.It would also seem at this point it not being so much about proof but about one's understanding of what is now known. A interpretation of what you know.

Kakkarot, I'm fascinated with your meeting God. Would you care to say more on that?

Naugal, I haven't had a rock thrown at me, but my grandmother placed her ring for my mother to find on top of a spring flower (seven years after her passing). Is this what you mean? This was more about being a message, than for the purpose of proof I believe. That's what I mean by trying to interpret things. There are two other things possible with this, angel or spirit intervention, or a gateway to and from other dimensions. Are you looking for proof, or are you looking for understanding? It sounds like you are looking for the deeper meaning of understanding.

[jc84corvette]

Yes they exsist!

[Nagual]

wisp, you replied in the wrong thread...  [|)]

I thought the rock sentence was a famous saying... which means that everybody makes mistakes.  So, you can't be 100% sure of your interpretations...

I am basicaly saying that we will/can not know the truth.

[wisp]

oops... yep, I'm lost! []

Interpreting is a gradual process to me.

quote:I am basicaly saying that we will/can not know the truth

I believe anything is possible. [] You never know what's around the corner.

[kakkarot]

no, i'm sorry but i would like to not say more on that [|)]. i've only told one person of the actual detail of it, but i'm leery of posting certain events from my life because certain others have proven that they will attack me for merely saying things that they deem are "too out there" (even on forums which address issues that are "too out there" for the mundane masses)[B)].

i doubt that would be the case with you or nagual, but i'd rather not find out (there have been too many others whom i had respected who turned on me once they found out just how strange my life really is). sorry, but i've been hurt enough for now and i don't even want to go through the possibility of being "betrayed" again just yet.

~kakkarot

[wisp]

Thanks for your reply. I think I know what you mean. []

[eleusis2]

When people ask "Does God exist?", what God are they referring to. In the Christian church, the image of God as the Father conjures up a picture of an old man with a beard sitting up in heaven taking note of humankinds every mistake. If thats how you define God then my opinion is no, he does not exist.

On a different level though, something has to be responsible for all of existence. Every religion, every philosophy (science included) tries to define one entity, one truth from which all else was created, and its existence is taken for granted even if we do not truly understand its nature. Thats what I define as God.

Of course, this is all just my opinion and open to criticism. No two people can have exactly the same views on something so undefineable.

--Eleusis

[wisp]

quote: No two people can have exactly the same views on something so undefineable.

You make a true point eleusis. []

[Mustardseed]

see the other posts

[The AlphaOmega]

The answer is simple, yes, both God and Christ exist.  The difficult part is believing it.  Belief does not equal truth, and no matter how much someone argues why Christ never existed doesn't change the fact that He did.  But if you do not have faith in Christ you will not understand His true existence.  He himself said "it is impossible to not believe what you see.  It is equally impossible to see what you do not believe."  I don't believe however that it's any one persons job on this earth to try to convince others that Christ exists.  In my experiences everyone who believes in Christ does so because they have experienced something in their life that opened their hearts to the idea.  I have never met someone who believes in Christ because they were told to.

[onefromsomewhereelse]

Lau,  of course God exists.  Common sense and the close up viewing of animals, if nothing else, begs for a creator.  One easy, quick, example, and there are hundreds:
a giraffe.  

I'm not much on biology, but, when a giraffe bends over to eat something low, he should die from the sudden increase of blood pressure on his brain, due to the long neck.  BUT...guess what?....there is special intricate valving in his neck, to compensate for this.  You think this evolved?  They would all be dead in one generatioin.  Some say that Mr. Giraffe just "evolved" this (who designed the valve?) over a few million years.  Sorry, I don't have enough faith to believe in that.  A few weeks of watching animal shows on the cable will turn any rational person into a belief in a creator God.

It is said the odds of there not being a creator is like taking all the parts of a regular wind up watch, throwing the parts up in the air, and having a ticking watch hit the ground.   If anyone thought that could happen, we'd call him a fool, but evolutionists.....think about it.

Jesus said He was God.  That's why the Jews did Him in, on blasphemy charges.
Either Jesus was God, or He was a liar.  Not just another good man, or a prophet.
Double or nothing.

If you are truly seeking God, you are one of his children; otherwise, you would not have the thirst for truth.

Sorry for rambling, and any misspellings.  I have a new computer with a small keyboard, and I need reading glasses.   Hope to have improvements on both soon.

[Nagual]

Who said giraffes had this problem before...?  Maybe they developped the valve before or while their small necks became longer...

My point of view is that: there are SO MANY unperfect aspects, problems in all creatures...  Why did God create them with all these limitations/imperfections/problems?

[onefromsomewhereelse]

Because He wanted to.  Maybe He likes debate.  Maybe the giraffe was correctly designed from the start...Mr. Giraffe had to be, otherwise he wouldn't have survived.

[Nagual]

So, you're saying that giraffes just suddenly appeared on earth with their actual anatomy???  Maybe you should read a little bit about the scientific researches on fossils, carbon dating and all the stuff related...

To not believe in evolution is one thing; but to blindly ignore the findings that goes against your belief is another...

[The AlphaOmega]

I think maybe God created imperfections in animals for the same reason he created them in humans... so they would eventually die.  There is more to existence then living in this world, and to believe that animals don't have souls as humans would be incorrect.  There is an afterlife for all of Gods creations.  Why do we have handicaped people?  Why are some born blind or deaf.  All species have inperfections, because it's not a perfect world.  As for evolution, it's a fact.  All animals evolve, we have the proof of it.  But humans evolve differently.  Every species evolves physically do adapt to our environment.  Humans evolve mentally and invent new ideas to cope with their environment.  We are the only species on the planet that does that, which must account for something.  To believe that humans came from monkeys means you are not using common sense.  If we came from monkeys... why are there still monkeys?  And if humans come from almost every continent in the world, why did only some monkeys on the same continent evolve into humans, while their brothers and sisters remained primates?  Some say we became intelligent because we introduced meat into our diets which helps our brain to grow.  What about strictly carnivorous animals?  Those that eat nothing BUT meat?  Don't see lions walking around discussing philosphy of life do you?  Wanna use logic instead of belief, that's very good.  Because if you sit down and really think about all aspects of life, it's really quite logical to believe in a creator of it all.

[Nagual]

quote:I think maybe God created imperfections in animals for the same reason he created them in humans... so they would eventually die.

We don't necesseraly die from these "imperfections"...  Many people just die "naturaly", from being old.  I was more talking about very "stupid" imperfections/problems

quote:Humans evolve mentally and invent new ideas to cope with their environment. We are the only species on the planet that does that, which must account for something.

Proven wrong many times by many animals who learned to adapt to new environment.  Like the use of tools, etc...  And not just talking about monkeys.

quote:To believe that humans came from monkeys means you are not using common sense.

Who are you reffering to by 'you'...?  Let's see how better is your common sense...

quote:If we came from monkeys... why are there still monkeys?

And next thing you will say is that there is only 1 stereotype of human being...  There are so many factors that will trigger so many different big or small evolutions...  It's not because one group of animals evolved one way that all the specie is going to follow...

quote:And if humans come from almost every continent in the world, why did only some monkeys on the same continent evolve into humans, while their brothers and sisters remained primates?

First, if I understood clearly, in the past there was only 1 huge continent that later splitted appart...  And most primates are supposed to have come from what has become Africa.  Second, you ask why...  I reply "why not?"  See above...  Man, just look around.  Can't you see how much humans evolved in just a few centuries???  Do we all look like the same?

quote:Some say we became intelligent because we introduced meat into our diets which helps our brain to grow. What about strictly carnivorous animals? Those that eat nothing BUT meat? Don't see lions walking around discussing philosphy of life do you?

Yeah...  Most pedophiles are males; so most males are pedophiles...  See the problem in your "logic"?

quote:Wanna use logic instead of belief, that's very good. Because if you sit down and really think about all aspects of life, it's really quite logical to believe in a creator of it all.

At least one thing we agree on... []  But that does not explain any of the creationist? theories.

Between concrete evidences found and beliefs from old stories/books...  I choose the evidences...

[The AlphaOmega]

Well you know, there is no concrete evidence of humans evolving from monkeys.  Just a few bones and skulls, nothing that proves the evolution of man.  You make some good points, but not many.  As far as the meat thing goes, I wasn't overgeneralizing.  To say that pedophiles are mostly male so most males are pedophiles is an overstatement.  To say that meat eating animals are not all intelligent is not an overstatement.  I guess when you talk about creation it basically comes down to what you believe happened in the very beginning.  The universe was created somehow!  If you believe in God then you believe that He created it.  However, if you believe in the big bang theory, you still have to think outside the box.  Nothing can create itself.  Life springs from life.  To believe that the universe just happened would suggest that the universe created itself.  If it created itself, then it must have had a conciousness to do so.  This would suggest that conciousness and physicality don't have to co-exist.  So one must consider the possibility that there is a world of conciousness beyond the body.  It's not a question of evolution, but a question of creation.  This doesn't prove the existence of God but does further open the idea that there is life beyond life so to speak.  So who created THAT world?  Did it evolve from monkeys?   []Just kidding-

[onefromsomewhereelse]

Nagual,  there is a bumper sticker which says "I'm a fool for Christ.  Who's fool are you?"  Your fool is evidence you can only see and touch.  Interesting position for these cosmic chat rooms, where I betchya most of us are more spiritually oriented.

So the Bible is just old stories and books....what scientific methods did you use to come to that conclusion?  

Yes, I do believe giraffes appeared with their anatomy;  (that's called a creation of the Lord.   Probably a bit simplistic for you, but good enough for some of us)  otherwise, they'd be dead, obviously, after the first generation.  You guys say that rats descended from bats, over millions of years.   If that were true, you'd have more batrats than bats, or rats.  Please show me evidence of one of the millions of years of batrat fossils.  I won't hold my breath.  Maybe they are all in France.

Have you ever been in love?  Oops, I guess you don't believe in that, since you can't prove it with hard evidence.  

[xander]

Originally posted by onefromsomewhereelse[/i]

Nagual,  there is a bumper sticker which says "I'm a fool for Christ.  Who's fool are you?"  

>That's assuming christ is God and not just a prophet, its also assuming your speaking of Parsifal rather than Homer Simpson.

So the Bible is just old stories and books....what scientific methods did you use to come to that conclusion?  

>Through the science of archeaology and the study of history there is great evidence of parts of the bible connecting various points of history.

 You guys say that rats descended from bats, over millions of years.

>Actually it doesnt work that way. various animals diverged from a previous species, thats what causes many similarities in various animals. Betcha ya didnt know that cats and dogs diverged from a common anscestor. So why don't you educate yourself on what evidence there is for evolution. Also, there are many different theories of evolution, just as there are different demonitations within the xian church.
 
Have you ever been in love?  Oops, I guess you don't believe in that, since you can't prove it with hard evidence.  

>What does that have to do with anything?

>Xander





[/quote]

[Nagual]

Thanks Xander, I was begining to feel lonely... []

quote:Well you know, there is no concrete evidence of humans evolving from monkeys.

Just wanted to remind you that the focus was on evolution in general; no need to narrow it to the controversial monkey-humans evolution...

quote:To say that pedophiles are mostly male so most males are pedophiles is an overstatement. To say that meat eating animals are not all intelligent is not an overstatement.

Excuse me but, when you say: "Some say we became intelligent because we introduced meat into our diets" and then "What about strictly carnivorous animals? Those that eat nothing BUT meat? Don't see lions walking around discussing philosphy of life do you?"; it translates to "human are intelligent because they eat meat"  and then wonder why "lions who eat meat are not intelligent"...  I see no difference with my purposefully absurd example...  I don't understand why you used your example on this topic...?  Trying to proove me wrong on the beliefs of other people...?

quote:The universe was created somehow! If you believe in God then you believe that He created it. However, if you believe in the big bang theory

Again, if you read my previous post, I said that I agree "in a creator of it all".  But you cannot extrapolate that I believe in a (christian) god that created Adam and Eve with the Tree and Snake and all...  I just believe there is a cause to an effect; that's all.  Also, believing in a creator does not exclude believing in the big bang... No?

quote:there is a bumper sticker which says "I'm a fool for Christ. Who's fool are you?" Your fool is evidence you can only see and touch. Interesting position for these cosmic chat rooms, where I betchya most of us are more spiritually oriented.

My fool (not sure what you mean by fool) is reason; not talking about skepticism or cartesian or whatever like that; but just thinking a little bit before rushing to a conclusion...

quote:Interesting position for these cosmic chat rooms, where I betchya most of us are more spiritually oriented.

What do you mean by spiritually oriented...?  I have so called lucid dreams.  I have maybe so called OBEs.  To be open minded, does not mean to blindly believe in everything, rush to conclusion...

quote:So the Bible is just old stories and books....what scientific methods did you use to come to that conclusion?

First, I did not name the Bible.  But, since you talk about it, the Bible is indeed an old book full of stories...  Isn't it?   I don't say the Bible stories are not true; as I don't say they are.  I just say that some ink on paper and stories repeated (and purposefuly deformed) from generations to generations will never convince me.  Of course, you can as usual use the St Thomas (correct?) excuse...

quote:Yes, I do believe giraffes appeared with their anatomy... otherwise, they'd be dead

It's funny how your "proof" is based on the the same thing you are tying to prove...  God created giraffes with a valve not to die.  So Giraffes have a valve.  So God created Giraffes.

quote:Maybe they are all in France.

[:O], I did not expect this attack!  Damn, you proved me wrong...   I'm a damn french! []

quote:Have you ever been in love? Oops, I guess you don't believe in that, since you can't prove it with hard evidence.

To be honest, nope, never been in love so far...  Or the closest would be my love for nature and animals...

To summup my "beliefs": When "you" see a shinny white light, "you" see God that loves you etc etc...
When I see a shinny white light, I see a shinny white light. Maybe it will become something else after some analysis of the experience.  But, these are good chances that it will just stay as a shinny white light.