How does karma work? Does it exist?

[zaicer]

Some time ago I thought about it and I concluded that there is no karma, destiny or any other external force that gudes you threw life like a child which is held by its hand (you have a spirit guide or whatever you call it but it does not direct you actions it helps you by giving advice which you may or may not use). We have a free will and we do as we wish, if ur wish is to belive in karma you can do so.
But going back to the question. When you do good things for others you become happy becouse you are proud of urself, when you are happy you mostly precive good things becouse of that positive mood (and if bad thing happen it doesnt phase you becouse you are strenghtend by ur positive mood and the extra energy that it brings). Then other people are happy becouse you did somthing good for them. They smile at you and in the future they might even repay the favor. That is why the saying "what goes around comes around" is true becouse if you are a unplesent to people they stop likeing you and they becouse negative toword you.
Pain also sometimes seen as a resuld of bad deeds or karma but it is simply a worning signal that something needs to be changed. Just like when you feel pain in ur leg you know you have to stop, when you are unhappy with what you have in ur life you know you have to start doing something else.
Another thing that people use to convince you of karma or destiny is prophocys. They say that the future is determined and you are just a puppet which is guided by this higher force. That belief is a result of insuficient information or lack of logical analisis [:O]
Future is a result of all our actions and other factors such as the weather and actions of ther people (which can be predicted if you know enough about a person). In simplistic terms the future is a result of an equasion wchih result YOU could predict if you had ALL the variables. You know that 2+2=4 and the higher self (or whatever spirit gives people the ability to see the future) understands and knows all the factors and so it can preaty acuratly predict the MOST LIKELY way things will be. But becouse the human will is the element of chaos this prediction can never be 100% accurate. The propocys that did not come to pass are not necceceryly something that was made up (althe the posibility is great ) they can be true but since the predictions were made, the future might have changed.

So in conclusion karma does not exist and there is no point in concerning yourself with it. You should commit your time and energy to changing you life and the world for the better.[]

[beavis]

if ur wish is to belive in karma you can do so

I want to believe what is true, regardless of what it is. I dont know if karma exists, so I made this thread.



I'm not talking about things that happen as a direct result of what I just did or being in a positive mood. I would only consider things as evidence that could not have affected each other using the logic of non-paranormal science.

[zaicer]

I dont know what you are trying to find out becouse the way I see it everything affects our lives and what some consider karma others cosider a direct result of their actions that can be logicly explaind using non-paranormal science!! Karma to many (me included) is simply a hindu word for couse and affect.

So plese explain what you think karma is !!

[Nagual]

I don't know if karma exists or not, but one side effect is that people who believes in it will more or less try to behave and do good things...  Nice same crowd control as the christian "behave or you will go to hell"...  But isn't karma mostly related to reincarnation; saying that if you have bad karma, you will go for another round...?

[Michael_E]

i like the idea of there being some kind of governing force that tallies all our good deeds and then rewards us with reciprocation. Its not always that simple though. bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people. This is where karma says "the bad things that happen to good people are a result of things done in a past life". the part i dont like about this is, how can i learn from a mistake i cant even remember or know that i have made? id rather think that the "bad" things that are happening are a result of a lack of imagination and understanding in my life now, a reflection of the choices i have made now.

[Jonas K strand]

hello

as i understand it karma is not merely something that makes us live for one round more if we dont live up to certain things. and it should not be seen as something that force us to perform good deeds out of fear. thats what its not. "now is the moment of power" is a good way to put it i think. if we keep reacting in the same manner the same things will happen. and truely the same things have happend to mankind over and over again... for a quite long time. at least thats my opinion. its when we break that chain of behaviour that is built upon habit and lazyness that the "real" world gradually comes to us. or the other worlds. we understand more and more about things and eventually we understand that there is no me to be, and that this something (me) have the power to just stop and that the only way to stop is to stop. and after that we will never be reborn again. there is nothing to be reborn anymore. and when you are in this state of meditation you maby telepatically tell your teacher that you have found out the meaning and that you now understand that there really are nothing! suddenly you hear a big bang and starts to feel a great pain in the area of your face. you look up at your teacher sitting in front of you. smilingly with a baseballbat in his hand. "what was that then?" he says. "start again, start again!"

i heard that story some days ago and just wanted to share it.

[spiral]

I think that we are all responsible for our own 'karma'. I don't really like the idea that we are governed by an external force, that makes it too easy. I see the universe as inter-connected, and I do believe that there are universal laws that we exist by, but we are all responsible for our own part in that connection.
My take on how karma works is through our own subconscious emotions. If we do something, which we know deep down is wrong, there will be an element of guilt or regret. To balance these negative emotions we attract experiences that we can learn from so as not to repeat the 'wrong action'. So long as we continue to learn from our experience we should never be stuck in a karmic cycle.  

By this, however, you could also theorize that if we can rid ourselves of all emotion we would stop influencing our own karma.
Hmmm, just a thought..

[Tayesin]

Hi All,
Another excellent question Beavis.

Karma is just mechanics, nothing more or less.  From our cause, be it thought, word or action, we set off a string of events that the Universe is bound to respond to under the flow of energy/creation.  This has to be the case because we are powerful creative beings in our own right, and as such we are part and parcel of the Universe, so we tell the universe what to provide by setting our example with our causes.

There is no such thing as good or bad karma.  The good and bad are only our judgements as humans.  With Karma being the mechanics of bringing forth our creations it can only be what it is and does not have relevance to our value judgements.

The mechanics are constantly at work, so Karma applies at all times and not for forcing us to return to another life.  It is us who choose to return to Earth, there is no-one there telling us that we were bad in our last life so we have to experience a crappy one next.  It simply does not work that way.

Consider that we are powerful and great spirits in our own right.....we choose what we want to experience, learn and remember about our real Selves.  If we did not succeed in one task we had set ourselves, then it is us who then choose to have the same or similar events, possibly under more difficult circumstances for added affect and meaning, in the next life.  Nobody forces us, we choose it because we are so great.

As for having to come back to Earth life....we also allow ourselves other existences in other places in between our Earth ones, if that is what we as great Spirits choose to provide the Universe with.  So every life we have here is chosen by us, to provide all that we feel we wish to learn and remember, and , in so doing we provide the Creative Awareness/Universe with experience of itself.  We choose all the thousands of options that we want to be able to choose from in our life, and again, we do so because we are great spirits, not just little insignificant souls on a blink and you might miss it tour of Earth.

Love Always.[]

[Nick]

Nice thread, and Tayesin wrote a nice description too. There is a great little book called The Kybalion which sets forth principles of Hermetic Philosophy.

One of the principles is The Principle of Cause and Effect. This book is a nice read and I would recommend it to anyone who hasn't read it. To quote it in part: "Every Cause has its Effect; every Effect has its Cause..."

Another little quote from the book, which is also thought-provoking, is the following: "We are all on The Path - and the road leads upward ever, with frequent resting places."  


Very best,

[Dark Knight]

Even though while under attack for close to 6 years I have seen higher entities intervene when pushed too far, I don't believe Karma is a "Oooh you broke this rule, so now this is your punishment?" Getting punished for breaking a law doesn't teach anything.

Karma, in my mind, works because this is an interdependent universe, we need each other to build, create, live, eat, etc. You are not separate from the universe existing in your own little bubble, you are part of it, and being part of it, your actions have consequences, some good, some bad, some neutral, but there is always a cause and effect.

As a negative, unpleasant example, if you decide the people living across the ocean have resources you want, but you don't want to initiate communication or trade and just decide to take it, and kill anyone that gets in your way...chances are good there is going to be retaliation of some form, probably very violent and very bloody. But that doesn't happen because someone with a book is tallying score and causes the invaded group to retaliate. The invaded group has a sense of value and a sense of being part of creation, something the Creator imparted in all of us at the begining. Like a pain receptor, it warns us when we feel we are being severed from Creation and departing from the Creator (although we do not always listen).

On a more positive note, little acts of kindness that cascade out and encourage others to reciprocate and do the same in kind. We choose this.

Think of karma as the mirror to your soul. Your actions have consequences and the consequences show who and what you really are. It's not something you can cover up (well, you might try, but even the covering up has consequences...it'll all catch up to you in the end). Do unto others and all that...if you treat others without compassion, would you like to be treated that way in turn? The consequences of your actions may provide that opportunity for you.

[shedt]

when I practiced Falun Dafa my understanding from Chinese teachings was that Karma was a black negative substance, and Di was white. it was interchanged from doing good things. Depending on the level though, because something on our current level may be acceptable but on a higher level could be wrong. if someone punched you, you would exchange part of your Karma for thier Di. but if you hit them back then the same thing would happen again. I believe in Karma too a extent. I believe in cultivation for sure. I trey my hardest too cultivate my mind body and soul

[mustard]

quote:Originally posted by beavis



"Post your experiences that imply the existance or nonexistance of karma."

Karma, it happends when you least expect. A month ago I was opening
my fathers old car radio, to get the small electric motor out so I
could use it for my science project. It was jus sitting there, getting dusty by the garage door, so I taught nobody would care.
My dad's friend came by the next week to get the used car radio
because his car radio got stolen and my dad was nice so he offered to
give to him his . Whoa! Why? I got grounded and my cable was cut off.
This is just one of many eperiences with karma I had to suffer.

[The AlphaOmega]

Well, I guess it all really depends on your view of Karma.  Some would believe that when you do something negative to a person, then that negativity will come back to you in a similar or worse manner by some natural force.  I don't think this is the case.  I believe that Karma can exist on a level coinciding with the world we live in.  The actions that we take have concequences.  Take smoking pot for example.  Many people believe that it's alright, even natural, to smoke pot, and that any punishments that one recieves for doing so are completely illogical.  As this may be true on some level, it is simply not the case when our laws are concerned.  You can either decide to smoke it and live a paranoid life worrying about cops or getting pulled over for some stupid reason only to be arrested for a larger one sitting on your dashboard... or you can choose to not smoke pot, not because it is wrong, but because by doing so you no longer put yourself in such a risk to get in trouble for it.  Now right or wrong, if you smoke pot and get caught there will be natural punishments for you actions because of our laws, whereas if you do not smoke it then the risk of getting in trouble for it is gone.  So Karma or not, the choices you make will carry negative and positive consequences, regardless of personal belief, because of the world we live in.  The same goes for everything, smoking pot is just one example.

[beavis]

Karma (if it exists) is not about physical causes and effects. Its paranormal.

According to physical karma, a jew should be killed by Hitler because he didnt change his religion, and women should be raped because they walk at night alone.

[The AlphaOmega]

Out of all the posts I've read I've never seen something taken out of context so extremely as your response to my response.  Good luck with that.

[beavis]

I dont see how its out of context except you might think police and murderers are in a different category, but they are similar because both will do evil things to you if you dont act a certain way. BTW I didnt give my permission to either of them to give me orders.

[Dark Knight]

quote:According to physical karma, a jew should be killed by Hitler because he didnt change his religion, and women should be raped because they walk at night alone.

No it doesn't and it's due to values and it's order of arrangement in a thing called priorities. What religion you are is not more important than human life, religion is an expression of human life and God. Expressing free will and making a choice is not worthy of being "raped" of everything you are.

Beavis, there's a difference between God making you in His image and you making God in your image.

Do you really think the physical and spiritual don't interact with each other? Do you really think all four bodies for that matter are separate in their own little worlds?

You share this universe, and you can be forced to change if need be. That doesn't make you a victim, it's called growing up and learning how to respect others.

Karma is put here for your growth and learning.

If you're going to keep your boundaries at a generalized level, then forget about personal growth and learning. You're just going to apply the same stupid, circular arguments. You have to set them and negotiate them with others out of respect. You're attitude toward them and their application is your choice and your responsiblity.

[oreo_renegade]

quote:Originally posted by beavis

if ur wish is to belive in karma you can do so

I want to believe what is true, regardless of what it is. I dont know if karma exists, so I made this thread.

What's true for you may not be true for me.[]

Create your own reality.

[boydster]

Especially for people in the western hemisphere, the issues of karma and reincarnation are a real hot potato. It boils down to the fact that it represents *personal accountability for ones actions*. And this is something for which a lot of people resort to denial.

All of Christendom, for example, prefers to think that "Jesus died for my sins..." and leave it at that. And within the new age people, there are lots of different weasely variations on the original correct occult understanding of karma. The important part of the above phrase is *accountable*, which implies that there is a system of accounting. And it implies that every "jot and tittle" of energy is subject to that system of accounting. My finding is that many people don't like that idea of debts or accountability for decisions, so they just ignore the whole thing or spin it in some way.

I like the metaphor of karma as a wound up ball of yarn inside of us. It has substance, and it implies that the yarn follows a reverse timeline. Another that I've heard is karma as layers like onion skin, the oldest and most egregious "stuff" (dark sticky, like tar...) gravitating to the core. According to timetables that we've agreed to before any given incarnation, this "stuff" comes up in a measured way (the unwinding of the yarn) in our daily life and causes excrement to happen which requires decisions. The tenor of these situations and decisions usually mimic in some way the original situation and subsequent errant decision which caused the karma in the first place. It's a chance to "make it right". If you blow it (again) it's more ashes through the grate so to speak (the energy continues to be enslaved and more is added). If your decision and actions are for the right and in love, then the energy is released from its imprisoned state and ascends to our causal body as a permanent asset.

So, I agree with Tayesin; it's just mechanics. Kind of like the impersonal laws of gravity or something like that.

[SpectralDragon]

I think of Karma, and some other things like Lucifer and archangels, the same way.

It is my belief an archangel (or a fallen archangel like lucifer), though they do have a personal aspect, are also part of the way things work as well. Michael, for example, would be the very soul of the fighting spirit called bravery (among other things) that is present in all of us. However, he is also not part of that bravery as he is simply the basis of it. It's like seeing one person suddenly starting to do something completely different and then seeing other's do the same. (though that is a bad example, close enough though to give the general idea.) Basically this is saying that higher level angels and spirits are the workings of the universe as well as the upholders.

Karma, then, would be a working of the universe that is higher even then the archangels, and possibly even higher than the galaxy (I believe that these spirits have physical forms manifested as planets and stars, meaning there are 7 archangels with 2 planets just being dead waste. Pluto IS just a big Ice ball.) When an action is taken, This working is triggered. From the intent of the action you can expect the same reaction. Just a working of the universe as some of you said, but also something more when looked at from a different perspective.

Hopefully that was easy enough to understand....[?]when I explained it to a friend he had a bit of trouble. Don't know why.

[beavis]

Dark Knight No it doesn't and it's due to values and it's order of arrangement in a thing called priorities. What religion you are is not more important than human life, religion is an expression of human life and God. Expressing free will and making a choice is not worthy of being "raped" of everything you are.

You choose with your will (if it is free or not). The result, whatever it is, but only what science understands, is your reward, according to physical karma. I dont agree with physical karma. Its nothing but cause and effect. I was asking about paranormal karma.

Do you really think the physical and spiritual don't interact with each other? Do you really think all four bodies for that matter are separate in their own little worlds?

I'm sure they do interact.

I dont know of any separate bodies, but I have had some experiences that might be misinterpreted as that. Just my opinion.

You share this universe, and you can be forced to change if need be. That doesn't make you a victim, it's called growing up and learning how to respect others.

Do you deny the existance of evil?

[Tony M.]

I see karma as an energyfield we create around us with our thoughts. Thoughts consist of energy. If the field is filled with positive thoughts, the field will attract positive circumstances for you. If the field is filled with negative thoughts (and feelings maybe) this will attract negative circumstances. In some literature this is described as higher-astral (positive, deeper) and lower-astral (negative, more superficial).

I believe in this concept.

[Dark Knight]

Beavis,

I have been evil, studied evil, and been on the receiving end of it.

Yes it is real.

You don't beleive the "paranormal karma" overlaps and interacts with "physical karma?"

[beavis]

I agree with Tony M. Maybe the answer is so simple I overlooked it, but I am still looking for a more complex description of what causes paranormal things to affect physical things.

Dark Knight, I agree that paranormal things influence physical events, so yes I believe that. I'll sometimes go through 10 traffic lights, all green, when I have a lot of ki.

I want to know how paranormal things work. Maybe its so different from our ideas that it shouldnt be called karma. Is it based on some objective rules of good and bad (doubtful) or subjective (more likely)? Who makes the rules (if there are any)? I dont mean there would be paranormal police that punish you if you disobey. If I tinkle somebody off, and never again physically interact with them or anybody they know, what power do their thoughts have over events around me, to make me have a bad day?

[Dark Knight]

quote:I want to know how paranormal things work. Maybe its so different from our ideas that it shouldnt be called karma. Is it based on some objective rules of good and bad (doubtful) or subjective (more likely)? Who makes the rules (if there are any)? I dont mean there would be paranormal police that punish you if you disobey. If I tinkle somebody off, and never again physically interact with them or anybody they know, what power do their thoughts have over events around me, to make me have a bad day?

You're making this way, Way, WAY too complex. You're reducing everything to an energy exchange in a science kind of way and grasping at the external instead of recognizing the internal.

Despite what people think, EVERYTHING is subjective, objectiveness is simply deafening your own subjectiveness to hear someone else's subjectiveness.

What is true on one level is true on all levels (how it works in the physical is how it works in the paranormal, internally)...don't read more into that statement than necessary and overanalyze. You're turning the recognizable into an alien then wondering why you can't see it.

I can tell you now, there are a set of rules, or boundaries which are in place. You start out recognizing them in generalities then they become more intricate, multidimensional and complex as you grow. But there is something in place to nundge you in a certain direction. If there wasn't, anyone could make up anything, negs could create and successfully implement their own philosophy and structure without challenge...the Universe would have been overwhelmed a long time ago.

We learn by challenging and being challenged.

You seem more worried about getting caught than seeing the boundary or challenge as an expression of love to the individual you may offend, and see the mirror reflected back to you that you are also that valuable.