FORUM INTRUSION

no_leaf_clover · December 30, 2003, 01:56:25

How did you come to this conclusion? I remember a while back someone linked to counter stats for these forums and there were hits from government computers, and then I was listening to Coast to Coast AM one night a while later and the guest was a former government insider (he's retired now) that worked with the air force that held world records for hours flown or something or other and he had lots of inside information, and he said the government was keeping tabs on thousands and thousands of people who say (or post) about UFOs or government intelligence, etc. I'd be talking out of my butt to start preaching that we're being watched because I don't have any evidence and really no reason to even believe it, but if it was true I wouldn't really be that surprised. I don't trust the government at all.

mattrox · December 30, 2003, 02:05:46

nor do i

SolsticeOfAdonis · December 30, 2003, 02:39:56

Hey, I would not doubt it if the government were keeping tabs on everything that we are posting on here. If you would like to read a very interesting book on our government that is really kind of freaky. go out and Buy the book by William Cooper titled "Behold A Pale Horse." It has some great insight but can be kind of frightening at some points. Hope you all check it out and enjoy it!

Brightest Blessings,
Adonis

Euphoric Sunrise · December 30, 2003, 04:47:25

It wouldn't surprise me at all, especially with what i've been reading of other member's encounters with the government.
What evidence do you have of this though? What are you basing this post on?

holy reality · December 30, 2003, 11:06:12

why would the govt monitor US though?

We mystic new age hippies tend to not be very violent, despite our general hatred of the government.

Everyone hates the government on the internet though, so why monitor these particular forums?

If they are, it means there is something really substantial about being able to OBE and/or remote read.

Or maybe they want to see what kinds of crazy predictions we make and make sure we don't uncover some nefarious government plot.

At any rate, you aren't safe from being monitored without warrant anywhere, via the Patriot Act.

I'm trying to refrain from profanity here so...

It makes me sick that they can destroy the constitution under the guise of protecting us, and that the average american is too damn stupid to realize it.

I'd applaud them for successfully manipulating the masses but... they (the masses) are so stupid in general that just about anyone could do so.

at any rate just be careful in what you say, I think it's okay to constantly bash the government, buf refrain from speaking of wishing for the government to collapse or bombs or terror or things like that.

Basically, don't excercise freedom of speech.

And don't vote Bush.... and if your state has electronic voting machines, don't vote at all, and make sure to get as many people to not vote as possible... or write your senators and tell them to remove those things.

I want a regime change..... :/ a peaceful one though.

Hephaestus · December 30, 2003, 11:29:43

It wouldnt surprise me if they monitored us, we're all gifted in here, some of us are clairvoyant etc, the government would be very interested on what some of us might say, for example what visions we have had or what guides have told us of things to come etc

This website is a valuable resource for the US goverment.

Ceriel N · December 30, 2003, 11:37:37

It's about intelligence.
What good are walls if you can walk straight through them, eh?

Other ares of interest that I know your government has is keeping tabs on skilled hackers (Not crakers nor skriptkiddiots[ = kids who download a program abusing pre-canned exploits.], but people who know what they're doing.) and a few political activists. The reason for doing this would be their _potential_ to dig up something nasty that makes a lot of old men lose their pension / go to jail.

Personally I'm not very interested in conspiracy theories, but concidering the fact that Echelon does exist, it makes it kinda hard to simply ignore them. Echelon stands to show that a lot of time, money and attention is put into obtaining information about private individuals.

More info on Echelon:
http://archive.aclu.org/echelonwatch/faq.html

Risu no Kairu · December 30, 2003, 11:39:38

Damn. You people know too much now. Not for long, though.

Ceriel N · December 30, 2003, 11:51:51

Why do you think I have a pair of sneakers next to my bed? [

]

lullabi · December 30, 2003, 12:07:07

Aahhh. Like I wasn't paranoid enough already.

Risu no Kairu · December 30, 2003, 12:07:12

I just realized something.

This post is in the wrong forum.

It belongs more in Astral Chat, than Astral Experiences.

Jeff_Mash · December 30, 2003, 12:35:52

quote:
Originally posted by Risu no Kairu

I just realized something.

This post is in the wrong forum.

It belongs more in Astral Chat, than Astral Experiences.

I didn't even notice that Risu. Good call. I just moved it.

bluelite · December 30, 2003, 13:03:51

Hi folks did not mean to cause such a stir but it is well known in the esoteric community that there are certain secret government groups that monitor websites and telephone communications of both individuls and groups that they believe may pose a "threat" to national security or the existing rules of social order within society . It is also no secret that certain esoteric schools and practises are banned in many foreign countries by there governments because of fear that these groups may pose a threat to there very existance.

Tolvor · December 30, 2003, 14:01:43

Let me start out by saying that I really don't put it past the US govt, or any govt, to illegally tap private or semi-private communications.

BUT a lot of what is being said here is physically impossible for any government, regardless of available resources, to accomplish. The problem is *information theory*. If they were to listen to a 100 million phone calls a day via computers, the computers would have to intercept, analyze, convert into machine text, parse into linguistic meaning, catalog it, archive it, and flag it for relavance in a database whose size would be beyond imaging. The computer would have to understand the speech of everything from intoxicated people calling home, to a southerner with a heavy accent, to a foriegn student who doesn't know his english well. At it gets worse, if you attempt to cross correlate the messages to find patterns, the problem grows not exponentially, but hyper-geometrically (n * t)^(x*n*t)). Add to that internet intercepts, physical mail peeking, personal movement (joe went to chicago and met with jack), and banking transaction monitoring and the problem goes from impossible to loony. Since there are less computers and people that the government has compared to the rest of the population, a *total* intercept is impossible.

You can do the math on it. Even a 1% intercept would overload any system, even the systems of the NSA, whose famous quote is 'We don't measure computer power by the gigahertz, we measure it by the acre.' The only way intelligence gathering can work is for it to be targeted to a limited population. The limitation would be up to them, and I can't imagine what the criteria would be. I'm quite sure that whatever it is (and I'm sure that they have one for info intercept) would make headline news on all news organizations. Almost certainly all foriegn exchange students in the US. Beyond that it would be pointless speculation.

So with a limited intercept, why would they waste their resources here where the probability of gaining useful intelligence or interesting data correlations would be low to non-existant?

As to why the web logs show government agencies, who knows? Maybe we have a few OBE/AP fans within the govt, who are lurking.

Or maybe the NSA psi-ops program needs new candidates.

Ceriel N · December 30, 2003, 14:25:54

You're working from the perspective that there is no pre-filtering of the information to be processed.
A certain phone number could be, as they used the term, 'tagged' and then the conversations on that number would be processed. - Then the workload falls to the amount of individuals who are tagged.

As for email, a great deal of it is spam and fairly easily filtered with freely availible software.
Some assembler code comparing incoming data with a given list of keywords is extremely effective.
Commercially availible routers process several gigabytes of data per second, analyzing TCP headers, deconstructing and reconstructing packets etc. and have capacity for more.
RISC processors come cheap and can be clustered.

The amount of data that the detectors at for instance CERN produce far outweights that of the the entire internet.

So in short, it is very possible to have a system like Echelon.

Tolvor · December 30, 2003, 14:55:39

As I said, I'm certain that there is filtering (I used the term targeting) being used, and that Echelon either exists, or shortly will - in either case being possible. The point I was trying to make is that the more you monitor, the harder it is to extract data. Most people don't take this into consideration and become paranoid that the government is listening. I've had relatives call me (me being the tech wizard of the family, not saying much) asking how to get off the governments 'black list'. A few years ago people were sending emails with supposedly hot keywords the government watches, under the theory of flooding the system. Me, I try to stay sane about what the government can and can't do, and not worry excessively about it.

If a significant number of people here were 'high risk' (I'll leave it to you to define that term) to the government, then the NSA probably would monitor this forum. But somehow I don't think that's the case.

Forums that would be monitored by the NSA would be more like the http://www.cyberarmy.com (which had endless discussion about Echelon) (it appears to be down), the various phreaking groups, and the anarchists clubs.

Ceriel N · December 30, 2003, 15:10:51

I've posted for a few years at alt.hacking on usenet.
Got an account on a forum mostly dedicated to things that go "boom" and anarchy.
I'm an anarchist.

Here's a satellite pic the Echelon base at Menwith Hill:
http://www.hackhull.com/ontour/menwith/images/menwith-31b.jpg

Sorry about dragging the feds here with me. [

]

bluelite · December 31, 2003, 00:00:20

Just wanted to say that my investigation was done exclusivly on the psychic planes.

Although it may seem that monitoring sites and persons is complicated just examing the number of folks who are on this site and other similar ones and you will realize that there are only a couple of thousand.

Now if you further subtract the ones that are not really participating from the ones that are leaving relevant feedback it would be less than maybe 80 persons per site this is not only true at this site but all others that dicuss similar topics. This makes it very easy to monitor certain individuals and there point of view on things.

xander · December 31, 2003, 00:14:58

Independent Order of Owls......Bohemian Grove..
..Bilderbergs....Freemasons...do a little research.

Xander

P.S. I shall soon get a scrying mirror to keep tabs on those who are keeping tabs.

Kerrblur · December 31, 2003, 00:39:15

They want to keep taps on the people who know information that they know like, 12th Planet, Awakening, pole shift, knowledge on who has gifts, and who to take care of when they re inforce this frquency deal over the nations radios and Television. but that may just be rumor. . .

no_leaf_clover · December 31, 2003, 03:27:34

Speaking of the government and how it's been slowly taking away our rights and limiting the Constitution..

http://www.the-shadow-government.com/main.htm

That shows you how much power the legislative and judicial branches have to balance the executive. Not much at all. All the president has to do is issue an executive order, and he doesn't need any approval of Congress, the courts can't do anything, etc. The position of Secretary of Homeland Security was created from an executive order issued by Bush, just as an example, but obviously this power can also be easily misused, and have been.

In the case of Washington being nuked, and all leadership in the US being destroyed, some eerie things are set up to take place. The Constitution and Bill of Rights are to be "suspended" using executive order, and this is all explicitly stated on official US documents, though not much else has been declassified as to what else this 'Shadow Government' will or can do. Makes me feel uneasy.

Just thought I'd add that Washington doesn't have to be nuked for the Shadow Government to take control. Anything that destroys our current government as we know it will do.

Aries · December 31, 2003, 08:03:26

This will be a long topic... the US Government is probly the worst one there is.
Since it has been formed it has abused its power, and treated the World like sheep.
The Government uses human guinea pigs to test for psychic talent, and all matter of other kinds of tests.
The US Government is crazy, and I personally do not want to cross pathes with them.
Afew things you may want to check out is:
project artichoke
project blue book
Montauk project
project rainbow
haarp project

Honestly the list is to big to even begin to try and post here, those are just some of the things I personally have found intresting. Also, about echelon, I do believe its real, especially if other Governments are admitting to it.
-Aries

Lighthouse · December 31, 2003, 08:15:06

When I was home for Christmas, my stepmother was telling me about a former CIA agent (I think it was CIA) who was being held prisoner in a building and was being interrogated for something (he's retired now and on the speaking circuit.) In one of his talks, he tells a story about how he was apparently trying to communicate with someone else in the building by using telepathy when he was being held... I heard the story second hand but here is my point...

People in the government are still people. Perhaps they have similar interestes to people within these forums. Don't you think that if the Government could teach agents and the like to use telepathy and such, it would be a good tool for them? OBE and Telepathy are all inclusive human experiences, not "New Age" or some other type of special exclusionary experience only available to people who post in these forums or who feel free to openly discuss these types of experiences.

--Kerri

Avalon · December 31, 2003, 12:39:28

About the conspiracy theory and government visits, ummm, I visit this site quite often and I do so from a government computer. The FBI, actually.

I'm not here to spy. I'm here because I enjoy the site. Seem kind of strange that some "black suit" would be interested in this stuff without some kind of hidden agenda? Well, I've never been told I'm normal. Eccentric maybe.

holy reality · December 31, 2003, 13:48:58

so what exactly do you do for the FBI? Do they really spy heaviy on various forums that tend to take an anti-government lean on things? Or do you not know that? You probably wouldn't be allowed to say though...

quote:
I'm quite sure that whatever it is (and I'm sure that they have one for info intercept) would make headline news on all news organizations.

Umm... let's ask our friend Mr. Patriot Act about that.... he says no.

Yes it'd be all over the news sites that no one reads but conspiracy theorists and it might make headliens in other countries, but CNN and FOX News and ABC and CBS and NBC won't be posting anything the government doesn't want them to, and I guarantee that.

The PATRIOT Act gives the government the power to force agencies to not air stories that compromise "national security" and of course, who determines what kind of stories would compromise "national security?" You guessed it...

as for echelon... i was hoping to maybe give myself a break and discount it to paranoid nonsense but.... unless archive.aclu.org is not an archive of the aclu.... well.. I don't think they'd just go around making that kind of stuff up....

disturbing, but not surprising.

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FORUM INTRUSION