Jesus - Result of Alien Abduction?

[beavis]

Jesus claimed to be "god". "God" is not from earth (because he claimed to create it). Jesus claimed he was an alien.

[The AlphaOmega]

Don't remember Jesus ever claiming He was an alien.  If He was in fact an alien, what reason would the aliens have for doing this?  Wouldn't it be more likely that an enlightened Jesus would have revealed that his powers came from his alien heritage, and not from the creator of ALL life?  Why would He call himself the son of man if He wasn't human?  As for the star, it's hard to say, but astronomers have revealed that during the time Jesus was born Jupiter was the closest to earth that it's ever been since.  Recently Mars was in a similar situation, and if you saw it you know how bright that was in the sky.  Jupiter is the largest planet in our solar system, so it's brightness would have been much more intense then mars' was, and would have been noticably MUCH brighter then any other star.  You may say it's stupid that the star in the sky was actually Jupiter that the wise men were following, but why not?  If that is the way that God chose to lead them then why couldn't it be possible?  Nothing is beyond His will... and it's been said that He works in mysterious ways.  I guess in the end it all comes down to whether or not you chose to have faith in God, or try and find the scientific (though aliens isn't that logical either) earthly approach to everything beyond our understanding.

[lifebreath]

Jesus claimed to be "the son of man" ("ho huios tou anthropou") no fewer than eighty-one times in the New Testament. "Man" is from earth. Jesus claimed he was a man.

Hmmm, seems we can force the bible to support whatever what wish ...

That being said, "I know that my Redeemer lives," as I have walked and talked with Him daily for 15 years, and have known His presence with me from before my birth. (That, by the way, was a tad over 40 years ago ...)

[exothen]

Something against this theory is the likelihood that there is no other life in the universe.

[beavis]

AlphaOmega, according to the bible, god created earth, therefore god is not from earth. Jesus claimed to be god, therefore jesus claimed to not be from earth. If he is not from earth, he is an alien. A simple and often overlooked bit of info from the bible.

[lullabi]

How can Jesus be the son of man, if he is God and God created man?

[lifebreath]

lullabi,

THAT is a very good question, and the one that cuts to the chase in regard to Christian belief - namely, the Incarnation. It speaks to the mystery of our existance, which involves an intimate connection with the God who is beyond all knowlege, names and images, yet Who is at the same time, completely present at the core of all that exists, including each of us.

The Gospel of John, for example, starts by referring to the Logos and saying that this Logos became flesh (incarnated) in the person of Jesus. The Logos, at the time of the writing of the Gospels, would have been a well-understood Greek philosophical concept that referred to the power, pattern, order and intelligence that pervades and underlies the universe,through which created things came to be and by which they are sustained in their existence. Logos, for example, is where our word "logic" is derived from. Logos, in the Gospels is usually translated as "Word," implying the Creative Word continually issuing forth from God, creating and sustaining all things.

John, then, takes this concept and says it is embodied, enfleshed and revealed to us in the person of Jesus - that Jesus is the "Word" or manifestation of the unseen, unknoweable God. It is indeed a paradox, in that one the one hand, we say (just as the Cabalist does) that God is beyond all knowlege and names (thus the Jews' prosciption against pronouncing God's "name" or making "graven images" in that all names and images are incomplete with respect to who or what God is), yet God is known through his Word, which reveals that which is hidden.

Now John goes on to say that this Logos is the very thing that gives light to every person, i.e., that while the Logos is incarnated in a unique revealatory way in Jesus, that same reality of union of God and Man is present in every person - a universal or "catholic" truth. So, in some way, we are all part of this eternally dynamic Word that continually issues forth from God.

Of course, attempting to define this exactly has been the core of thousands, probably millions of debates! How can we say on the one hand that God has always existed and is totally "apart from," yet totally "united to" what He has created?!? (Simultaneously transcendant and immanant.)

One the one hand, we can take the pantheistic (or closely related monistic) approach where God and the Universe are equated - all is ONE. Pantheism, then, is reductionist in that there is no room for God as anything other than the sum of the parts. Pantheism is really abstracted atheism where "god" is impersonal force. Pantheism is the attempt to bring unity into the diversity of things, but at the cost of reducing God to fit into our limited minds.

On the other hand, we can go the dualistic route - a sharp division between spirit and matter, God and Man. Never shall the twain meet! This gives us some obvious difficulties, like "if matter and mind are completely seperate, how does the mind apprehend the material world?"

Both systems of thought give rise to difficulties and in the end, I believe that this is where words simply break down in their ability to transmit an accurate picture of reality. Thus, we come to symbols. In this regard, I think that math can give some clues as to how things can be both separate and unified simultaneously!

Take, for example, the "Golgen Ratio" Phi, or more generally, irrationaly numbers. First, natural numbers are so name because they denote the material world and it's plurality - things can be enumerated, counted. 1, 2, 3, 4, and so on. Rational numbers are defined as ratios of natural numbers. Again, these are directly related to enumeration - 1/2, 2/3, 5/8, etc.

Irrational numbers, however, present an intriguing phenomenon - they are not "rational" in that they cannot be expressed in terms of natural numbers, thus they in some way related to a higher realm than that which can be counted (the material world). They are defined in terms of intrinsic characteristics and relationships of one thing to another. They hint at non-enumerated unity.

So, pi is defined by the inner relationships of the aspects of the circle. Phi is defined by a recursive relationship. These "numbers" bridge the gap between mind and matter, hence the reverence bestowed them throughout the ages. Phi, for example, while being an irrational number, is integral to the forms of growth and reproduction. For me, it speaks then of how that which is above enumeration (unity) can unfold into diverse forms. It gives rise, by the way of analogy, to an understanding, at least to some degree, of the paradox of how God could be both transcendent or "apart" and apprehendable or immanent.

I think my post also addresses the "alien" issue.

[Jeff_Mash]

Didn't Jesus say, "I am of this world but I am not from this world?"

In other words, while coming from a non-earthly plane, he took on an earthly form to interact with us.

Much like each one of us have done in being born here.

He also said that the works that he did on this earth (water to wine, walking on water, healing the sick, raising the dead, etc), that we could do these works as well, and greater.

So if He was an alien, then that would make all of us aliens, IMO.  However, I'm of the belief that he wasn't alien in the extra-terresrial sense of the word.  He was spirit, incarnated into flesh....like you and I.

[The AlphaOmega]

I would have to agree with Jeff's percpective.  Being alien to a world means that the laws of the world are not necissarily similar to your own.  Christ was not of this world not because He was not man, but because He was spiritual.  Spiritual abilities lie in the power of something other then our dimension.  Christ is not of Earth because He is of a spiritual heritage, not because He was from another planet.  Beavis, you state that what is overlooked is that Christ said He is God and not from Earth.  This is only true because He (like us all) were not born of Earth, but merely dwell on it for a short time.  What is overlooked in Christ is that He teaches us that if we have faith in God, we have His power.  There is not one of us on this planet that does not hold the potential to do exactly as Christ has done, because God created us in the very same likeness that He created Christ.  "He created man in His own likeness".  Christ was born of this earth for no other reason then to reveal the true light of humanity.  We are all spiritual beings, as He was, and our potential is no less, because God created us all as equals.  You say that Christ is an alien because He stated that He was not of this Earth.  In reality that would make us all aliens because none of us are of this earth.  We are created spiritually first, and temporally second.  This Earth is NO ONES home, only our classroom.  So, you would be correct in saying that Christ is God and that God is not of this Earth.  And that same is true of every human that has ever and will ever exist!

[exothen]

Jeff,

quote:Didn't Jesus say, "I am of this world but I am not from this world?"

Not exactly. He said, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world" (John 8:23).

quote:He also said that the works that he did on this earth (water to wine, walking on water, healing the sick, raising the dead, etc), that we could do these works as well, and greater.

John 14:12, "I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father."

A couple things. Taking this verse in context, which is one of the basic principles of biblical interpretation, only those who have faith in him will do these things. This is further strengthened by the fact that he was speaking to his disciples at the time and most certainly wasn't making a blanket statement about all people.

AlphaOmega,

quote:So, you would be correct in saying that Christ is God and that God is not of this Earth. And that same is true of every human that has ever and will ever exist!

The same cannot be said of every human. Christ is God in the fullest sense - eternal. He's always existed and always will. Jesus, the pre-incarnate Word, entered time and our world as a means of reconciling the world to God. No human has existed for eternity past and probably doesn't exist until born from womb, maybe at conception.

Christ is alien only in the sense that he truely was not of this world. But he is not an alien as in a being from another planet since we are likely the only intelligent beings in the universe, besides God, of course.

[hypnotist]

Something else to think about?

One of the outstanding aspects of Jesus' life was the miracles he worked. According to the Bible, Jesus walked on water, fed five thousand people with five loaves of bread and two fishes, changed water to wine and raised people from the dead. However, the most meaningful of his miracles were the healings he performed. These healings include: paralysis, lameness, fever, catalepsy, hemorrhage, skin disease, mental disorders, spirit possession, deafness and blindness. Many of these healings were accomplished by the laying on of hands. This is indicated frequently in the New Testament, Luke 4:40 states: "When the Sun was setting, the people brought to Jesus all who had various kinds of sickness, and laying his hand on each one, he healed them."

In Matthew 8:14-15, Jesus uses touch to heal Peter's mother-in-law of a fever. In Mark 1:40-42 Jesus uses his hands to heal a man with leprosy. This is also mentioned in Luke 5:12-13. Matthew 20:29-34 describes how Jesus healed two blind men by touching their eyes and in Mark 8:22-25 Jesus uses his hands to heal another blind man. In Mark 7:32 35 he uses touch to heal a man who is deaf and can't speak. In Luke 7:12-15, Jesus raises a dead man by touching his coffin and in Luke 8:49-55 Jesus uses touch to return a dead girl to life.

There are many similarities between the laying on of hands healing Jesus did and the practice of Reiki. One important similarity is the fact that Jesus could pass the power to heal on to others which is similar to the Reiki attunement process. We read in Luke 9:1-2 that Jesus gave his twelve disciples power to drive out all demons and to cure diseases. We do not know by what process Jesus gave healing power to his disciples, but the fact that he was able to pass it on to them indicates an important similarity with Reiki.

Another aspect of Jesus' healing practice that is similar to Reiki relates to faith. While faith was required for many of the healings he performed, it appears that the healings Jesus did with his hands did not require faith. Mark 6:5-6 states: "He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. And he was amazed at their lack of faith." So, in spite of the fact that they did not believe, Jesus was still able to use laying on of hands to heal. This is one of the important aspects of Reiki: It does not require faith on the part of those receiving a treatment in order for the Reiki to work.

The fact that Jesus had secret teachings he gave only to those who he had given healing power is clearly indicated in Matthew 13:10-11 and Mark 4:10-12 & 34. Secret knowledge is also part of the Reiki teachings in that the symbols as well as the process of doing attunements are traditionally kept secret and only made available to those who take a Reiki class.

It is not known whether Jesus was born with the ability to heal through touch or if this was something he acquired. His activities between age twelve and thirty are not mentioned in the Bible. It has been suggested by several researchers that during this time Jesus traveled to the East and was schooled in many of the mystical teachings of India, Tibet and China. If this is so, it is possible that Jesus was initiated into a healing technique, during this time.

On the other hand, it is possible that Jesus was taught directly by God or the Holy Spirit or simply had these abilities from birth. There is some good information indicating that the healing methods of Jesus were preserved by the Church of the East and passed on by it's missionaries who traveled along the Silk Road and other trade routes to India, Tibet and China. It is possible that this information on healing could have been incorporated into the religious teachings of the East and therefore could have been the original source of the Reiki techniques that were used by Dr. Usui.

The early followers of Jesus' teachings were made up of several groups. One such group was the Gnostics. They practiced laying on of hands and professed to have a secret knowledge that had been passed on to them by Jesus and his disciples. The Gnostics were made up of many smaller groups some of which were known as the Docetists, the Marcionites, and the Carpocratians. They were united by their core beliefs which included: a personal experience of Jesus or the "kingdom of heaven within," their freedom and lack of rules, guidelines or creeds and their reliance on inspiration and inner guidance. Their existence is attested to by the Gnostic gospels which are part of the Nag Hamadi Library which was discovered in Egypt in 1959. The fact that Jesus had additional teachings not recorded in the Bible is attested to in a letter written in the second century AD by the early Church father, Clement of Alexandria. In Clement's letter, he spoke of a secret gospel of Mark which was based on the normal canonical one but with additions for special followers of Jesus, referred to as "those who were being perfected" and "those who are being initiated into the great mysteries."

When Christianity became organized after the second century, its teachings were centered around faith and the official teachings of the church, rather than healing or "good works" and inner guidance as practiced by the Gnostics. At this time, those promoting the organization of the church began subduing and banishing those Gnostics who would not conform to the authority of the newly developing Church. In addition they tried to destroy the Gnostic gospels. With the elimination of the Gnostics and the establishment of the Official Christian Church, the practice of laying on hands by lay Christians was strongly discouraged.

Jesus possessed great confidence in his ability and was able to heal in an instantaneous way with spectacular results. It is clear that he had perfected many skills and used them in conjunction to get the results he created. Clearly the Bible indicates that he did healing by laying on hands and also indicated that we could do the same. The teachings of Jesus, as well as the example he set are a great inspiration for us.

Frank (hypnotist)

[Gandalf]

In the earliest recordings of his teachings he only ever refered to himself as 'Son of Man', never 'son of god'.

Furthermore, he described himself only as a 'herald of the kingdom of god', which can be interpreted in several ways but a 'prophet' is certainly one possibility.

He also preached *only* to Jews and actually forbade his diciples to teach to non-jews. Only jews were to be part of the coming 'heavenly kingdom'. Jesus Was a jew and his teachings were for jews..only. It was only after Jesus' death that Paul later pioneered the 'new way'.

Also, rather than annulling the 'old law' and the 10 comandments etc, he actually demanded a stricter policy of adhering to the old laws. Much of the new testemant teachings about the old laws being fulfilled and no longer valid is simply untrue and later addition. Jesus believed it was his mission to further enforce the *old laws* which he felt some jews were slacking off from. He tought that only by leaving their old lives behind and by living in strict accordance with the jewish teachings could one enter the 'heavenly kingdom'(which was imminent apparantly).

it was only later after Jesus' death that a some of his diciples, like Paul pioneered 'the new way' which was geared towards teaching non jews, but this new policy was quite against Jesus' original teachings, drawing resentment from many of Jesus's original Jewish followers.

As time wore on, jewish followers of Jersus' original teachings saw how the teachings were being increasingly transformed into a genteel religion and was moving rapidly away from their original form, ending up with the new testement writings, written variously from around 60AD to 80-100AD.

Christianity eventially became a genteel religion in its own right and especially during the 3rd century, when the concepts of Incarnation, Redemption and the Trinity were first formulated.
Later after the sack of Rome in 410, Augustine proposed the idea of 'original sin', although this concept has never been accepted by the eastern (orthodox) church.


I know that many of you will say that I am simply wrong here and that these things are difficult to accept for some christians, but the above data on the origins of christianity has *long been known* in scholarly circles but it is only recently that such research has moved out of academic circles to become more well known in general, however, I think it is the right of every christian to know about the origins of their religion (if they wish to).

I advise checking out your local divinity and ancient history department at university for more info on this interesting topic.

Douglas

[lullabi]

Somebody has maybe posted about this before, but anyway ... It's just something I was thinking about. This isn't what I believe, by the way. I don't really know what I believe about God, Jesus etc.

Some things that support this theory:

1 - Mary, his mother, was visited by a "messenger from Heaven" in the middle of the night, who told her she would bear a child. This is a common alien abduction scenario, and often abductees have stated that the abductors appear as "glowing". There is also that other fact about how supposedly alien abductions involve, err ... Procedures ... to form alien hybrids, and in some cases, women are actually impregnated and give birth to the half-alien child. Thus, Jesus. How else could a "virgin" get pregnant?

2 - The "three wise men" apparently follow a "big star" in the sky that leads them to the Baby Jesus when he's born. Here's an obvious one. This was, of course, back in the days before there was air travel. Three men see a bright light in the sky. Could be a UFO.

3 - Jesus had an amazing array of powers - He could heal, walk on water, and so on. According to alien abduction lore, some abductees have actually reported positive experiences they've had with the visitors, such as how they "healed" their cancer or other ailments.

4 - After Jesus died and came back to life, he went up to Heaven in a beam of light.


Thoughts?