A key in getting rid of negative entities

[SpectralDragon]

I have to disagree with this. I will list an example to show you why I disagree with this.

Scientist 1: Your theory on the universe is garbage.
Univ. Christian1: I know it is correct. Can you not feel the universe has a conscious?
Scientist 1: Conscious? and how many times has the universe talked to you today?
All: LOL
Scientist 2: Your theory on 2012 being the year of change is completely idiotic as well. Why should we believe we have to Change our ways? Science is the only truth to the universe.
Univ. Christian2: You should at least check it out, even by your thinking there is plenty of evidence that the 10th planet is...
Ccientist 1: tenth planet my @**, you christians just made that up.

That was an example of a caring soul trying to help out people who would not listen. If you think the guy shouldn't care, what if those people were his direct family?

Humans are social animals, there is no denying that. It also does not work with Negs. I have tried that particular theory myself. The only way to get them to not bother you is to keep away from them, and to have knowledge about them. Also knowledge about how to get rid of them. An overbearing presence helps as well.

Much harm has come to people who have done what you are suggesting. They ignore and deny, but the fact is thier energy is still being sucked dry by a psychic vampire or neg. Ignoring just makes thier job easier, same as denial.

People around you like to deny that you are right a lot, and truly believe it. I am sure you can think of a good example of when someone has not listened to your advice and paid for it. They truly believed they were right, but it didn't help them. It's not a healthy way of thinking.

[Dark Knight]

A BIG THANK YOU TO SPECTRAL DRAGON!

Finally!

You can ignore something if you have the freedom to walk away from it. An entity/person/whatever that is persistent, skilled, focused and determined on ruining you isn't going to stop if you ignore them, because being heard is not the objective. If overcoming the individual is objective, they're not gonna give a damn if you're listening or not, both can be used as tactics to crush you. just a matter of being flexible.

Denying a problem exists...like turning someone into a damn alcoholic!

There's no problem, I can handle it, my world is closing in on me, energy is being taken, barely make it, but I can handle it, I have control. HORSESH*T!

The brain takes everything literally, and when you tell someone to ignore it when things are worst, the brain takes a literal association. I'm being treated in a way than ruins my sense of being connected to Creation, I can no longer make positive affirmations or asociations but I can ignore it.

[boydster]

I have to agree that it is useful to be able to control the faculty of ones attention. And in a similar way, it's good to be able to distinguish ones own thoughts from those of a foreign source. And cultivating the ability to instantaneously withhold your energy from pouring into a desire or feeling (your own or a projected one) is great.

That said, I'd have to agree with Spectral Dragon and say that there are classes of very experienced and aggressive demons who will not be stopped by these techniques alone.

I think that our natural auric shields work best when we are in a happy, optimistic mood and that if we put our attention on and brood over negative thoughts and emotions, we become much easier to penetrate. I think this may be what you are commenting on.

I would agree that it's good to practice keeping peace and a positively attenuated demeanor. But you can't wish things away by denying their existence. At least in my experience, there are forces on the astral plane which can eat you for lunch if that's all you have going for you.

You need spiritual warfare knowledge and practice also.

[Dark Knight]

I'll just leave this link here to my reply, no point in repeating every damn thing.

In Robert Bruce's own words...

http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9789

[Aries]

I would have to agree that ignoring things would be a very bad idea...
They would make you weaker and weaker and more and more would attach to you.. (i think..)
by the way child of the forest a person was here looking for you a week or two ago.. they made a topic with your name in the headline. I think it was in the PsychicDefense forum or possibly the astral chat...
-Aries

[Child of the Forest]

No no no...

you all misuderstood what I said, or I misworded what I was trying to say. I do not believe in ignoring thigs either, for that is ignorance. What I said was this, or rather, what I meant was this:

If you believe in what you say, then there is no need to defend your position. If you defend your position, then that means, you too are unsure of it. So if a negative entity tells you that you are racist and every time you see a person of a certain race, a derogatory name enters your mind, but you know that the exact opposite is true about yourself, then why would you bother defending your position? ex. "I am not racist! I did not think that. Would I ever go around calling someone a     ? No, I would never do that!" These are the types of obbsessions I get. If you defend your position on not being racist, then this means that you too are unsure ot it. In the back of your mind perhaps you think you may be. But if you know you are not, you can say something like this, "That was a nice try, neg." Or "That's ridiculous" The neg will give up trying to make you think things that are untrue about yourself; you will no longer be defending. The three biggest spiritual traps afterall are defending, judging, and rationalizing.

So, to make it short, I never suggested one deny anything, denial is something no one should ever practice. Perhaps I misworded what I was trying to say and hopefully this will clear it up and be of some help...

By the way, did anyone check out the Walhour hour? It is a great show. They play new-age, Native American, Classical etc... There is this person who says things every so often that are very spiritually inspiring.

~Child

[SpectralDragon]

Ahh I see what you are saying.

If you truly believe.. Then you should never Question YOURSELF.

[Dark Knight]

Child of the Forest:

quote:It is a very true and wise saying. For instance, if someone told you you were made out of slime, would you even entertain that thought? Of course not, because you know you are not. Why then should it be any different when someone makes fun of you or calls you hurtful names? If someone told you you were made from slime, you would laugh and say, "That's ridiculous," or something similar. You can do the same thing when people say things to hurt you. Just laugh and say, "That's ridiculous."

Because the attacks most of us are going through here are not the monochrome, singular events you describe...if they were, negs wouldn't get past the first step.

Your senses of the physical, your emotional senses, your mental senses, and spiritual senses are all employed in a balanced way to indentify reality and interact with it. You think these b*stards just attack one sense (your thoughts) one at a time in a linear way and that's it?!

They go after ALL of them either instantaneously or in an orchestrated, complex fashion....if they attack one part of one sense then yeah, I think I am pretty confident the other 99% of my senses could handle it. But if 75% of my senses are attacked simultaneously or in an orchestrated fashion, how well do you think the remaining 25% can cope, especially when that 25% has to be divied up for every part of life (work, relationships, etc...what do you think, it can be dedicated entirely to the attacks?).

People talk about the senses being attacked as if you could just dissociate from them and walk away...there is a limit to what you dissociate from. You can't dissociate entirely from yourself.

You can't continuously walk away from everything, tell everybody to "GET OVER IT" every time,...you won't be able to create that positive life, feel that love...it won't exist anymore because YOU WALKED AWAY FROM IT ALL! WHY?! Because you didn't want to deal with it. You can't walk away forever unless you plan on compromising everything including Creation and the Creator.

What does it take for people to see how multi-dimensional, multi-lateral this experience is? People are watching a 3D movie without the red/green plastic glasses and you're missing a huge piece.

[kiauma]

Negativity is passed by hooking the attention.  This is why it is bad to argue.  By repeatedly presenting your rationale against the negativity, it only gives an opening to work against.  Are your morals just a rationale?  True morality is natural, and does not need to be argued.

Education is the strongest recourse.  Wisdom is knowledge of what cannot be directly known.  Through habitual meditation we come to realize this, and center ourselves in our strength, without rationalizing.

Much damage is done by hooking the attention and overwriting a person's own thoughts, telling someone what they think and say, over their own thoughts and words.  It is because of our own feelings of lack of control that we try to control others thoughts, others actions.  We try to deny them, using devices like calling them 'Negs' or worse.  This is a judgement, and a trap.  We call it 'spiritual warfare' and project aggression onto the other, but by putting it into those terms we have revealed ourselves.  It can no more be avoided than seeing our own face in the mirror.

We do not need to judge others, only show discrimination and have faith in ourselves.  If someone is harmful to us, then we should defend ourselves by resolving the situation or leaving.  This does not mean the other person is 'bad', it means we have conflicting agendas.  If someone wants to murder me then we have conflicting agendas, and the situation must be rectified - but that person may have very real reasons for wanting to murder me.  On the other hand, I may want to murder someone, but again I have the choice to rectify the situation, or leave.  If someone is just calling me names then that is about him, not me.  Even if I propogated the situation, I have the power to resolve it or leave, and have it end there.  One can never be aware of the larger karmik situation.  We can only take care of ourselves the best we can, through true peace and compassion.

[Dark Knight]

quote:If someone wants to murder me then we have conflicting agendas, and the situation must be rectified -

And that's how most of us here are...we didn't seek this crap out. I attracted my attackers because I wanted to teach people how to love and respect one another, and someone didn't like that. We can't walk away from this and most of our attackers/negs/entities are not "devices," except for the ones in me at the moment.

Everybody keeps telling us about our lessons, what about yours? And the one thing I have learned through this experience is that life is not judgment free, especially when boundaries are concerned and conflicting agendas arise. I keep hearing about the lessons we're supposed to be learning, but I still don't see the love and light loonies making an effort to learn a thing.

You have too much freedom and can walk away from too damn much,...maybe that needs to change.

I can direct you to the link in one of my replies above for two direct quotes from Robert Bruce's book.

The boundaries that allow morality to exist and enable the freedom of all need to be enforced, and they can disappear in a sec, ask any Jew, Cambodian, Rwandan, or Croat. Your value is ordained by God, it doesn't mean it's owed to you while your here on this plane.

[kiauma]

"And that's how most of us here are...we didn't seek this crap out. I attracted my attackers because I wanted to teach people how to love and respect one another, and someone didn't like that. We can't walk away from this and most of our attackers/negs/entities are not "devices," except for the ones in me at the moment."

I really couldn't say.  I find I am always ignorant of the larger karmik picture, often even in my own case.

"You have too much freedom and can walk away from too damn much,...maybe that needs to change."

That depends.  If I value peace then I will live in a fashion conducive to peace, including detachment, compassion, and non-judgementalism to the best of my ability.  This is not to say it is the right way or the only way, only that I live by my value of peace.

If I value posessions, control, vanity, or any other number of things over peace, then yes obviously my outlook and options would be very different.

I quite agree with your quotes from Robert Bruce, we simply look at it differently.  I see in it the conviction to maintain discrimination and self-centeredness - our self, after all, is our most precious posession.  We need not give away our peace even in conflict.  I feel no need to subdue 'negative' forces, only be myself.

What I am speaking of really just boils down to temperance.

[Dark Knight]

Saving your skin is not more valuable than another human being...which is what you have to compromise when you stay entirely unto yourself.

[kiauma]

I am not sure what your point is.  Are you saying staying 'unto myself' is a compromise of my skin, or the other human life?  Are you trying to trap me in an ethical error of some kind?  What ever for?

I am not your enemy.

[Dark Knight]

You trapped yourself,...I'm ending this argument here, it's not going anywhere.

[kiauma]

[SpectralDragon]

Ki, I am going to put this very simply. If you ignore others, where is the learning?

[kiauma]

Where have I ignored anyone?

In rereading the topic, it appears I must have offended some of Dark Knight's beliefs.  If so, I apologise.  They are only my opinion - my beliefs.  I expected a discussion, but instead when I questioned DK on her meaning I was told that I had 'trapped myself', and that she was ending the "argument", no explanation, no clarification.

How is it that I am seen as 'ignoring others' when it is my comments that are left unanswered?

Very curious.

[SpectralDragon]

You are saying to ignore other's in another post...true morality is natural, and does not need to be questioned, remember?

you are saying we should ignore some things when it comes to morality.

Now i read your whole post and later you say that we should either deal with something or run away? I don't agree with running away. The world is round, so if you keep running then you will eventually come back to the problem.

Like I said it is bad NOT to argue. You cannot learn that way. MAnkind is not in a spritual state where there can be no arguing.

Also, you imply negs aren't real. Have you ever astral projected, or have you not astral projected longer than 3 months? If not then it is easy to see where you are getting this from. Negs are very real. They are not the source of all problems, and they are rare, but they are there. This forum is used for dealing with them among other things.

quote:but by putting it into those terms we have revealed ourselves. It can no more be avoided than seeing our own face in the mirror.

In my opinion this is a good thing. If we face our problems then we can go on with things.

[SpectralDragon]

srry for double posting but something else came up.

Ki, what DK is trying to say is you are looking at things from a very materialistic veiwpoint. Is saving yourself more valuable than any other life? that is one of the things she was getting at. Your value and another's value are not the same in the eyes of man, but they are by god.

Another important point she is making "you trapped yourself" It is not wise to choose one way without taking a look at the other possibilites first. It is also not wise to think of everything in terms of yourself, or trying to put something's place in the world by comparing it to yourself. I believe that is what she is getting at here.

I hope DK comes back to this she was making interesting points. []

If you are still confused I will try to put this in a different light.

[kiauma]

Why thank you SD, by replying with critical discussion you are truly forwarding this topic.

Perhaps Dark Knight will see fit to explain herself at some future time, and perhaps not.  She has my apology, in any case.

You are saying to ignore other's in another post...true morality is natural, and does not need to be questioned, remember?  you are saying we should ignore some things when it comes to morality.


How in the world did you pull that meaning out of that?  Yes, it is my belief that true morality is natural.  While that in itself is rather off-topic, if you wish to discuss it further we could probably find a suitable place somewhere.   As to 'ignoring everyone', I assure you that is hardly what I was getting at, as I hope my behaviour has shown.

Now i read your whole post and later you say that we should either deal with something or run away? I don't agree with running away. The world is round, so if you keep running then you will eventually come back to the problem.

Where do I say one should run away?  though it is wise in the presence of crazed gunmen, and futile in a nuclear explosion.

I listed that as a possible choice, along with resolving the issue.  Yes, in the rather dramatic example of running completely around the earth running away would be no resolution, so I have to agree it would not be a good choice then.

Like I said it is bad NOT to argue. You cannot learn that way. MAnkind is not in a spritual state where there can be no arguing.

Well, I am not going to argue with you.  Instead I'll say that I agree the future of mankind is in interaction.

Also, you imply negs aren't real. Have you ever astral projected, or have you not astral projected longer than 3 months? If not then it is easy to see where you are getting this from. Negs are very real. They are not the source of all problems, and they are rare, but they are there. This forum is used for dealing with them among other things.

Yes, I have APed.  I am also aware of how our fears and aggressions create our own negative thoughtforms.  Are you?

Yes, threats can happen and need to be dealt with - but the more one thinks of them, the more a person aligns their opinions and strategies with their existance, the more powerful they become.

That would make this topic a veritable restaurant for any lurking negative entities, wouldn't it?

[James S]

I have already been recently criticised for my insistence on the effects positive thinking, and although I consider mindless optimism with no sense of caution to be a danger, the principles of positive thinking do work.

quote:Yes, I have APed. I am also aware of how our fears and aggressions create our own negative thoughtforms. Are you?

Yes, threats can happen and need to be dealt with - but the more one thinks of them, the more a person aligns their opinions and strategies with their existance, the more powerful they become.

Kiauma has shown a point here that many who regularly experience AP have discovered, and something Robert Bruce has commented on in Astral Dynamics. The astral planes can turn the metaphorical into the literal. If your thoughts are negative or fearful, you will find yourself in regions of fear and negativity. Turn your thoughts to the positive, and you will rise out of these areas into brighter regions.

Some years ago I suffered from depression for a number of years. My outlook was very negative and pessimistic. Negative feeds negative. Our dark emotions grow the more we dwell on them. Only a positive attitude can assist us in releasing our thoughts from this cycle.

This aspect also relates to what Child of the Forest is saying. If you are set upon by negs, negativity or a bad situation, the way you view the situation will go a long way towards shaping your outcome. A negative view will just bury you deeper into the problem.

No matter what our physical situation, no matter what karmic laws or destinies apply to us, we always retain the ability to choose how we are going to deal with what we are given in life. That's called free will.

James.

[SpectralDragon]

quote:Yes, I have APed. I am also aware of how our fears and aggressions create our own negative thoughtforms. Are you?

I am well aware of thought forms that form from our own fears. I am not talking about those. I am talking about NEGS. I am not talking aboyut our own fears. I have encountered things in my astral travel that cannot be explained through my own thoughts and fears.

quote:Kiauma has shown a point here that many who regularly experience AP have discovered, and something Robert Bruce has commented on in Astral Dynamics. The astral planes can turn the metaphorical into the literal. If your thoughts are negative or fearful, you will find yourself in regions of fear and negativity. Turn your thoughts to the positive, and you will rise out of these areas into brighter regions.

Some years ago I suffered from depression for a number of years. My outlook was very negative and pessimistic. Negative feeds negative. Our dark emotions grow the more we dwell on them. Only a positive attitude can assist us in releasing our thoughts from this cycle.

I experienced something similair, and I completely agree with this outlook. That's why I liked what child of the forest was TRYING to say. You should not question yourself if you know you are right, however it would be foolish to not question yourself when what you thought was right becomes questionable again. That is how we learn. Being stubborn only leads to the problem getting worse.

quote:The principles of mindless thinking do work

I partly agree with this. In certain situations like when your house has been blown away and your family is alive you should be thankfull that you and your family is alive. However when dealing with some problems like you are suddenly getting delirious for no reason you cannot do this or it will lead to more problems. Thinking positive in a critical situation could lead you to become less aware of what is going on and thus lead to disaster. I am not saying you should be Mr. Negative, but you should approach the situation with as little emotion as possible.

Kiauma: Let's look at the whole paragraph and I will show you where I thought that is what you were implying:

quote: Negativity is passed by hooking the attention. This is why it is bad to argue. By repeatedly presenting your rationale against the negativity, it only gives an opening to work against. Are your morals just a rationale? True morality is natural, and does not need to be argued

You say that negs are hooking attention, sometimes this is true. Some like to work covertly and get some things out of you without you noticing. Mostly these negs are not taking enough for you to notice, which doesn't cause problems until it goes too long. By saying it is bad to argue you are implying that such actions should be ignored.

quote:Yes, threats can happen and need to be dealt with - but the more one thinks of them, the more a person aligns their opinions and strategies with their existance, the more powerful they become.

That would make this topic a veritable restaurant for any lurking negative entities, wouldn't it?

I agree with the first sentence paragraph, but not the last. I think instead of entities, it draws forward negative emotions in people, and we already saw that this is already true, haven't we? negative emotions and negative entities are not the same, as some people believe they are.

[Dark Knight]

quote:I think instead of entities, it draws forward negative emotions in people, and we already saw that this is already true, haven't we? negative emotions and negative entities are not the same, as some people believe they are.

Thank for delineating that boundary for me...I've been quelling over this for weeks trying to figure out what in the hell they were talking about, and you just nailed it on the head. "Negative" has become a generalized boundary encompassing just about everything, and no effort made to categorize according to the appropriate context.

There are no negative emotions! Emotions/thoughts are senses, just like your sense of touch, to help you discern reality. Saying a particular emotion is bad would be akin to saying a particalar sensation of touch is bad because you got burned at the same time the touch sensation was experienced. That does not make a "burning sensation" negative, it exists for a reason, to warn when something is wrong. Same is true for emotions. You keep reacting to how people feel instead of acting and thinking. There are consequences multiple steps ahead, and you're so near sighted you don't even bother to look.

We need help, and we've got people who are over the moon about themselves because they defeat a thought form or a putz, wimpy neg out for food.

I've got to go to work, I'll write more later. I'm not doing the kiauma argument. That is kept a level of boundaries that is too vague, too general and too circular...won on technicalities and not much on substance.

[kiauma]

"I am well aware of thought forms that form from our own fears. I am not talking about those. I am talking about NEGS. I am not talking aboyut our own fears. I have encountered things in my astral travel that cannot be explained through my own thoughts and fears."

Let me ask you this.  What you encountered, did you fear it?

"That's why I liked what child of the forest was TRYING to say."

Then how do you explain your first sentence in this topic;

"I have to disagree with this. I will list an example to show you why I disagree with this."

If you liked what she was trying to say, why did you so adamently disagree with it?

"You say that negs are hooking attention, sometimes this is true. Some like to work covertly and get some things out of you without you noticing. Mostly these negs are not taking enough for you to notice, which doesn't cause problems until it goes too long. By saying it is bad to argue you are implying that such actions should be ignored."

First of all, for a person who knows himself the effects of any type of 'attack' like this will be immediately evident.  Second of all, Astral creatures are simply powerless unless in some way they have been invited.  The victim simply must, in some way, share in the complicity to some degree of such an occurance.

I'm sure DK will strongly object to this, amoung others.  One of my strongest beliefs, however, is of self-responsibility, and our power/helplessness in the face of it.

Lastly, your conclusion that because I say it is bad to argue then I am implying such actions should be ignored is false.  This time, however, I think I can see how you got there from here.  Let me specify what I mean by 'argue'.  I mean mutual confrontational belligerence.  Perhaps when I say 'argue' you are thinking of what I term 'discussion'?

"I think instead of entities, it draws forward negative emotions in people, and we already saw that this is already true, haven't we? negative emotions and negative entities are not the same, as some people believe they are."

I think it is a grave and paranoid error to see ourselves as helpless victims in the face of an evil external force over which we have no control and against which we must be constantly vigilant.

All I am saying is because of the principle that our beliefs manifest on the other side, perhaps the best defense is actually being less defensive.

Amazing how much emotion is sparked when it is suggested that people ARE responsible for themselves, how they look at the world, and what happens to them.

From Dark Knight:
"There are no negative emotions!"

What about fear?  Fear closes us.  Fear shrinks us.  Sounds like the opposite of 'positive' to me.  

"I'm not doing the kiauma argument. That is kept a level of boundaries that is too vague, too general and too circular...won on technicalities and not much on substance."

So where is your substance DK?  "won on technicalities and not much on substance" is completely devoid of any  valid counterpoint, without some demonstrable logic or reasoning explaining why you think my points and examples have no substance.

[Dark Knight]

No one believes stronger than I do that you have to take responsiblity for the consequences of your actions....

Why don't you try assuming yours instead acting like such a lazy a**.