Please somebody shed some light, WILD or OOBE?

RandomName · July 01, 2002, 01:31:53

Hey man, nice to meet you. First thing

quote:
Once outside my window, the world that I know seems to be ok, but many things are either in the wrong place, or seem to not make sense.

This is perfectly normal around the real time zone because of the fact that reality fluctuates with what is true and what you beleive is true. It was annoying to me the first time around, especially when i entered a neighbors house down the road that i know ACTUALLY lives about a mile from home. i actually thought about going to see him and I was instantly in his house. its all normal.

quote:
When I first started this method, the vibrations were like a freight train rushing through my head, but now they are merely a hum or a buzz or just a feeling

The main reason that you barely hear or feel these vibrations anymore is that they have become common and second-nature to you. Your subconcious no longer is startled by these sensations so you don't tune into them much anymore. Experience does this to all of your problems, including skill and fear. Im not a veteran projector and I have only experienced it twice, but I have used these skills and this knowledge in dreams all my life.

quote:
It always starts off as an astral projection, because I am totally aware of what is going on, but then things alway seem to get weird. Am I just lucid dreaming, or am I projecting or a combination of both

Since your not staying 100% aware throughout the experience on some occasions, you may possibly be Out of Body but then fade into a dream world because you lose your focus even for a second. I had this happen on my first induced OBE and I damned myself for it. Keep your focus or you will fade into dream worlds or the projection will fail.

Good Luck to you.

Spencer · July 01, 2002, 01:43:47

Dear Psi,
It is great to meet you as well. Thanks for the reply. You have helped to shed some light on a puzzling problem that I have had for some time. I have had a lot of problems with energy work. I started off doing the Monroe CD's for a while and hit the trance easy, but that was always as far as I got. Then I stumbled on to the alarm clock one night, and since then I have been using that method. When using the CD's, Monroe has you do a series of humming or singing exercises know as "Resonate Tunning." And then he has you take that energy and has you make an imaginary energy balloon in which the energy continues to flow into you, out of you and all around you. I am wondering if these exercises are used to open one's chakras. I don't know if you are familar with the Monroe CD's or not. I really enjoyed the humming or sining exercises that Monroe uses. Any ideas?

Mobius · July 01, 2002, 04:51:51

G,day Spencer & welcome

From what you say you are doing nicely on your adventures with OBE's. If you havn't allready I suggest you get hold of ASTRAL DYNAMICS by Robert Bruce here, as it covers many things Monroe doesn't, also it expands on concepts Monroe only delved into briefly. The resonate tuning humming that Monroe uses is a "Mantra". "Om" & "Ah" sounds have been used for centuries & do seem to play some sort of part, well they do on the cd's anyway.

As to the lack of vibrations, I agree with Psi's comments, you are probably used to them & not anticipating their arrival as a sign post that you are about to have an OBE. The things being in the wrong place or not making sense is talked about in depth in Astral Dynamics, p 460.

Such an obvious thing & it really cleared a lot of things up for me, it's called
"Vision-Reversal" & makes complete sense. In the physical form we have about 220 degrees of vision, but while in an OBE, we are a point of consciousness with a 360 degree viewing potential, so we can change our viewpoints without changing direction of our body, the problem is the way we see things in the physical is so ingrained into the subconscious it doesn't know another way of being, so is confused by what Bruce terms "Spherical vision".

All the best & good journeys mate

Mobius

quant · July 02, 2002, 18:52:58

Spencer, would you mind taking a minute to tell me more about this alarm thing you were talking about?

Tell me how you did it etc so i could try it?

Thanks.

Spencer · July 02, 2002, 23:05:01

Dear Quant,

I would be very happy to help you. My usual wake up time is about 7:00 in the morning. I usually set my alarm clock for about 4:00 a.m. When it goes off, I wake up, go to the bath room, get something to drink, reset my alarm clock for the normal waking time and do something for about thirty minutes, usually read or play video games. Then at around 4:30 I try and go back to sleep. Usually my sleep pattern is disrupted and it takes about an hour to an hour and a half to fall back to sleep. When I fall back to sleep, the vibrations hit and almost startle me. From then I just either roll over, stand up and fly out my window.

I stumbled on to this method one night after going to the bathroom and not being able to go back to sleep. The vibrations hit me like a freight train and I felt energy running throughout my body. I tried the trance method many times but never got any further than the trance. The alarm clock method has been most effective for me. When I first started using it, I did it for about three nights in a row, and then my body got used to change in sleep pattern and the vibrations stopped coming. I layed off for a couple of weeks and allowed my normal sleep patterns to come back. Lately I have been using the alarm clock method again, and everything is fine.
I hope that this information helps you. If you try it, please let me know how it went.

Cheers,
Spencer

Spencer · July 02, 2002, 23:07:37

Dear Quant,

I would be very happy to help you. My usual wake up time is about 7:00 in the morning. I usually set my alarm clock for about 4:00 a.m. When it goes off, I wake up, go to the bath room, get something to drink, reset my alarm clock for the normal waking time and do something for about thirty minutes, usually read or play video games. Then at around 4:30 I try and go back to sleep. Usually my sleep pattern is disrupted and it takes about an hour to an hour and a half to fall back to sleep. When I fall back to sleep, the vibrations hit and almost startle me. From then I just either roll over, stand up and fly out my window.

I stumbled on to this method one night after going to the bathroom and not being able to go back to sleep. The vibrations hit me like a freight train and I felt energy running throughout my body. I tried the trance method many times but never got any further than the trance. The alarm clock method has been most effective for me. When I first started using it, I did it for about three nights in a row, and then my body got used to change in sleep pattern and the vibrations stopped coming. I layed off for a couple of weeks and allowed my normal sleep patterns to come back. Lately I have been using the alarm clock method again, and everything is fine.
I hope that this information helps you. If you try it, please let me know how it went.

Cheers,
Spencer

Spencer · July 02, 2002, 23:09:13

Dear Quant,

I would be very happy to help you. My usual wake up time is about 7:00 in the morning. I usually set my alarm clock for about 4:00 a.m. When it goes off, I wake up, go to the bath room, get something to drink, reset my alarm clock for the normal waking time and do something for about thirty minutes, usually read or play video games. Then at around 4:30 I try and go back to sleep. Usually my sleep pattern is disrupted and it takes about an hour to an hour and a half to fall back to sleep. When I fall back to sleep, the vibrations hit and almost startle me. From then I just either roll over, stand up and fly out my window.

I stumbled on to this method one night after going to the bathroom and not being able to go back to sleep. The vibrations hit me like a freight train and I felt energy running throughout my body. I tried the trance method many times but never got any further than the trance. The alarm clock method has been most effective for me. When I first started using it, I did it for about three nights in a row, and then my body got used to change in sleep pattern and the vibrations stopped coming. I layed off for a couple of weeks and allowed my normal sleep patterns to come back. Lately I have been using the alarm clock method again, and everything is fine.
I hope that this information helps you. If you try it, please let me know how it went.

Cheers,
Spencer

DG · July 04, 2002, 06:51:42

Dear Spencer,

I also used this method. It worked the very first time I tried it. I woke up at about 5 a.m., went to the bathroom, and came back to bed. Then I did about 10 deep breaths, and after seemed to fall asleep. Soon I felt mild vibrations, and realized that I can "walk out" of body. I made a short trip around the house.
Now, my problem is that I can't repeat this experience! I tried the next day, but it didn't work, and never worked since (it was few months ago). I wonder if I maybe trying too hard...
Could you say what do you do when you go back to bed: do you just lay there till you fall asleep, do you do relaxation exercises, or AP techniques?

Thanks,

DG.

Frank · July 05, 2002, 04:44:02

That's the time I project always, early morning. Got into it quite by accident, as I have never been a "night person". Hence it's rare for me to be up beyond 9.30 - 10pm. As such, I naturally awaken around 4am.

Years ago I'd spend 2 or 3 hours studying then leave for college. When I first came across the concept of obe, I naturally used this time for my new-found obe studies.

From my own research, I found there are distinct projection processes.

For years I would experience heavy vibrations, before shooting off like I'd been blown from a cannon. Then I worked on modulating these vibrations, and found doing this caused varying projection effects.

Nowadays, I hardly ever feel any vibrations at all. Ever since I became fascinated by Monroe's concept of "phasing in" to the Astral.

You see, Monroe was one of the most experienced Astral travellers there has ever been (to date) yet he mentions not one word about chakras; energy-raising; devils; negs; et al. No lying there for hours doing body-circuits and the like. Nope, just a simple "phasing in" and there you are.

So I began trying to work it all out; on the basis that if he could do it, then it must surely be within my capacity to do also.

Now I found that if you allow your focal point of awareness to drift to a certain area of the brain, you place yourself in a state that Monroe describes as, "mind awake, body asleep".

While there are several interpretations as to what Monroe actually meant by this, and there are commercial factors that come into play, I found (from teaching myself to achieve Focus 10, from using the Gateway Wave-1 CD) there is a point where you can leave the physical behind completely, yet you are not yet projecting within the Astral.

From this stage, all you need is a little mental "push" and the Astral will come into view. From which point, you just mentally "step into" that view and you become within the Astral proper: with no vibrations, no falling sensations and/or feelings of shooting upwards.

All of which is ever so easy to say, but I find it's a darned *tricky* mental balancing act to perform.

Yours,
Frank

quebec · July 05, 2002, 07:37:49

Hello Frank,

quote:
........"Now I found that if you allow your focal point of awareness to drift to a certain area of the brain, you place yourself in a state that Monroe describes as, "mind awake, body asleep"......

I read many of the topic on which you wrote about this, but many and myself are still trying to find the exact location of that: """certain area of the brain""" that you are talking about.

We have an expression in french that goes like this: ""you're tripping on the flowers of the carpet "". This aspect is one good exemple. Although you wrote many time on this, there are still question on the "location" in the brain where you allow your awareness to drift.

quote:
""".....All of which is ever so easy to say, but I find it's a darned *tricky* mental balancing act to perform....."""

Could you spare the time to go a little further on this ? After focussing for a week or more, the "mental" comes in and you start to question if you are at the righ location or not.

Exemples: Do you focus on the inside of the forehead ? At eye level ? Higher or lower ? Near the top of your head ? Inside the middle of the brain ?

Trifles, but it would be more reassuring to stick with it if we knew more precisely the "area in the brain"

Thanks!

Mobius · July 05, 2002, 19:34:47

G,day guys

Hey Frank, while Monroe is amongst my favourite authors & have quite a few of the cd's & tapes now, he seems to borrow ideas & concepts from earlier OBE writers like Muldoon, Carrington & Fox, he was also fairly familiar with eastern metaphysical concepts, why he chose not to reference them is strange.

Although his more science based explanations stay away from religous sources, he certainly knew about them, maybe this is why he has attracted so many, by trying not to drop any religous terms like "Chakra's".

In doing this he appeals to those dubious of religion, people looking for more scientific explanations like you & I & even appealed to the U.S military.

While he doesn't mention energy raising in his books, on the cd's you would have found he talks first about drawing fresh vibrant energy into your body & then breath out & expel the negative energy or stale energy, drawing the energy into your head. Then using that energy to set up what he calls "REBAL" or the resonant energy balloon, by surrounding yourself in the energy that was stored by the energy raising technique.

Monroe doesn't mention "negs" directly, but in "Journeys out of the body" (pg260) he talks about an experience where an energy probe entered his forhead (or third eye, or brow chakra or pineal gland?) & began exploring his mind for something he couldn't comprehend. Quote from J.O.B :

"It had an intelligence of a form far beyond my comprehension & it came directly into my head & seemed to be searching every memory in my mind. I
was truly frightened because I was powerless to do anything about this intrusion"

He didn't exactly mention "negs" but if that happened to any of us, we would count that as a negative experience.

Another thing Monroe constantly refers to is converting your beliefs into "KNOWNS" & often writes it in upper caps. This is the crux of "Gnosis" or "Agnostics". GNOSIS literally means "Knowing" or only believing in things you "know". Strange that he constantly refers to this but never references it, as if it's something he alone brought into existence.

I'm not having a go at you Frank, these are just things I've uncovered lately through a little digging & I also get a bit perplexed at the overuse of Chakras, which could generalize a whole heap of separate activities that have nothing to do with your metaphysical body.

Quebec, maybe I could expand on what works for me using the technique Frank refers to.

Imagine or visualise all your brain activity or thoughts moving to the front of your skull into the frontal lobes of both sides of the brain & all that energy or information stored wants to get out the front of your skull, approximately centre of your forehead, through your pineal gland, which sits in the centre of both sides of the brain, shaped like a pine cone & about the size of a large pea. By rolling your eyes up as Frank mentioned you can focus on this area, about 15mm or 1/2 an inch inside your forehead.

This is just one of the many methods of drawing focus to that area & I don't need to raise energy, meditate or listen to hemi-sync to do it. Although lately I've been realizing the more time I spend on energy raising, the better chance I have at recall, going to higher astral levels & general control while I'm on the astral, but is not necessary for me to get out in the first place.

Sorry to butt in, hope I could be of some help & all the best on everyones journeys, cya's.

Mobius

Patty · July 05, 2002, 23:42:07

Thanks all,

this is a good thread. Gonna try that focus - moving the energy to the pineal area. Can't comfortably roll my eyes; I assume it is not necessary as long as focus is on the spot?

Patty

Mobius · July 06, 2002, 04:17:07

Hi Patty

I find it a bit tough also to roll the eyes up & I don't understand why, as most of the people I have observed sleeping tend to roll there eyes back naturally once that unconscious state has been reached.

Two nights ago I was doing this & while I thought I was in the right state to have an OBE, nothing seemed to happen. I felt like I had lay there all night just trying to get to sleep & felt totally aware of the room around me & the sounds outside. I went to get up in the middle of the night to take a wiz, but my projectable double was allready out.

I never noticed the mind split for some reason & my double was off on the astral while my physical body experienced part "astral sight" & part "remote eye", until I went to move. I just caught the tail end of shadow memories coming in from the projected double & BAM memories of 5 different places & encounters came flooding back, leaving me thinking, how could I have missed that?.

The moral of the story I guess is, even though you think nothing at all happened, it did & there is a very good chance it's happened every time you have tried, it's just remembering our other life is a tough thing & anything you can do to record the events like a diary or note book is essential for getting you in the habit of remembering & gaining control of the OBE.

One of the OBE's I remembered was with my deceased grandfather at a place near the sea, big grassy area's around & hundreds of people just hanging around waiting for something, you guys sure ya's weren't there?

Good journeys all

Mobius

Frank · July 06, 2002, 04:39:29

Quebec, I'm making developments on this technique almost daily as it is something I only got into the past 6 months, or so. If you read my earlier posts you will see I basically began using the ROPE trick and tried to simplify the process from then on.

My early work involved letting (what I called) my sense of conscious awareness drift upwards. But doing that can still take a while. What I am working on is trying to get a concrete process that can simply be enacted, in the same way Monroe did.

You see, basically, all I want to do is project within the Astral with the absolute *minimum* of preparation and effort.

Pursuits such as meditation, energy-raising, igniting chakras, and so forth, are all very well. And I am in no way against anyone going that. All I am simply saying is: it's not my thing, and none of it is necessary for projection. Which is the main reason why I only recommend the Gateway Wave-1 CD; as the rest goes off on a tangent (in my opinion) where commercial factors start coming into play.

Anyhow, I came to realise that, in addition to the general sense of conscious awareness that resides within my brain, I also have what I now call a Focal Point of Awareness (or Focal Point of Consciousness) that normally resides within my physical body.

If I have been using my hands a lot the previous day, for example, I often find my focal point of awareness residing in my hands. But, generally, I find it resides around the area of my chest when relaxing with my eyes closed.

Where your focal point of awareness is, can sometimes be obvious. Like, if you are male and have an erection.

I had this idea of my focal point of awareness being like a sensor on the end of a temperature probe. One that had been inserted into a bucket of water in order to take a reading. Like, my focal point of awareness was sitting on the end of an extendable probe that came from the top of the brain. It extended into the physical body, in order that physical-body sensations could be experienced.

I then thought, rather than lying there for an hour, trying to allow this focal point of awareness to rise upwards to the top of my head: what if I could mentally reach down, grasp it, and lift it upwards. Simply lift it up to the top of my brain where I should immediately say goodbye Physical, hello Astral.

That was the theory.

In practice it all remains ever so tricky. But this morning I took a slightly bigger step than yesterday.

I awoke at around 4am and started to listen to the Wave-1 CD (track 2, to Focus-10) as usual. What I do is first listen to track 2 of the CD, once or twice, then mentally run through the process on my own. Which, more often than not, leads to a conscious-exit projection.

However, this morning I only listened to the CD for about 5 minutes as I felt relaxed and confident enough.

So I lay there and mentally tried to reach down to my chest and lift up my focal point of awareness to the top of my head. As I say, I find all this a very tricky mental balancing act to perform. But after about 10 minutes I had a distinct feeling of my focal point of awareness moving upwards. At the same time, the Physical simply switched off.

I found myself in a "mind awake, body asleep state" and it felt like "I" was situated right at the top of my head. Which is a condition I have found myself in before, from using the teachings on the Wave-1 CD. Only this time there was no vision of the Astral at all. Normally, at this point, I'd start seeing stray energy then the Astral would come into focus. Whereupon I would mentally step into it.

It was a little confusing, so I thought I'd just roll along with the sensation to see where it would lead. Next I felt a distinct pulsating all around me, followed by a drifting feeling. Below me I began seeing all kinds of dark shapes with lines of lights between them.

Then I chuckled to myself upon realising that I had inadvertently projected into the RT zone and was flying about 200 feet, or so, above the rooftops around where I live.

Yours,
Frank

Spencer · July 06, 2002, 20:06:22

quote:
Originally posted by DG:
Dear Spencer,

Dear DG,
After i am awake for thirty minutes, I just simply try and fall back to sleep. I don't do anything. when the vibrations hit, they startle me or wake me up, and then from there I just get up like we do everyday of our lives. Maybe you should try setting your alarm clock earlier. I don't try any breathing exercises our AP exercises at all.

Cheers,
Spencer

Spencer · July 01, 2002, 01:14:18

Fellow Travelers,

I have been practicing Astral Projection for about 9 months I guess. I have been using the alarm clock method to project. About 4 in the morning the clock goes off, I read for about 30 minutes and then go back to sleep. About an hour later, the vibrations hit, I roll over and fly out my window. Once outside my window, the world that I know seems to be ok, but many things are either in the wrong place, or seem to not make sense. I have ended up at peoples's houses that I haven't seen for years and sometimes just strange things happen. When I first started this method, the vibrations were like a freight train rushing through my head, but now they are merely a hum or a buzz or just a feeling. I'm wondering if not having enough energy iis causing weak vibrations and therefor weak journeys? It always starts off as an astral projection, because I am totally aware of what is going on, but then things alway seem to get weird. Am I just lucid dreaming, or am I projecting or a combination of both? The age old question.

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated.

Sincerely,

Spencer

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Please somebody shed some light, WILD or OOBE?