how close am i?

[jilola]

I've had the same experience. When I couldn't make anything happen OBEwise I started playing with the beep. After a while I was able to change the pitch of the sound to about an octave lower.

It bugs me to no end when I try to exit only to have the vibrations etc. fade away leaving me where I started.


Jouni

[rodentmouse]

ive been speaking to some people online and they say they can project in an instant by simply thinking about somewhere else.....
this just really frustrates me.

[jilola]

Ok, now this I didn't need to hear!! http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/images/icon_Smile_wink.gif" border=0>
Actually I've been thinking about the vibes and what Robert refers to as interference between the physical and the energy body at thhe time of exit.
It seems to me that if the energy in the non-physical body has a different freq. than the physical one there would be a similar interfence effect to what you get when you play two different notes at the same time. The resulting sound can be pretty awful like when you get really bad vibrations.
So is the answer to projecting with ease (though I'll take any old way) tuning the freqs of the real-time body conveniently with respect to the physical?
This would be consistent with the energy work and the view of the astral planes (real-time included) as distinct planes with different energy levels and possible frequencies.


Jouni

[Patty]

Don't you think that it depends how 'asleep' your body is?

Sometimes I can just 'walk away' (and I think I am awake at the time) but afterwards I feel like the experience wasn't really from an awake state.  (I guess I don't know, ultimately, if I am awake or asleep when I project.) At the time it seems one way, in retrospect it seems another way.  I am guessing the people who can just blip away when they are vibrating are either very experienced projectors, or are saying that they did this while awake but that if you experienced it yourself, you might not consider it a conscious exit.  (but I can only hazard a guess based on my limited personal experiences, which vary widely in terms of degree of consciousness, the 'state' at which I experience them, the amount of dream content,  and so on.)

Like you, I also get frustrated when I get some sort of vibration (more like a warm buzz for me) only to have it fade away.  I think that the more relaxed I am when I get the vibrations, the more I can just walk away. but then I run into the problem of .... Was I really just 'relaxed' or was I actually asleep? (and was it just a dream?)  (This is why I am so hung up on verification.)

My wings seem completely clipped lately, anmd I am very frustrated about it!

Patty

[jilola]

Does it matter if you are asleep or awake as long as you a) get out, b) have control and c) remember it afterwards?

I have this nagging feeling that the whole thing is way more simple than we allow ourselves to believe. I mean, if eeveryone does it when they sleep it would mean that it really doesn't take much of an effort and knowledge but rather simple acceptance of the fact hat OBE happens.  It's a matter of unlearning what we've been conditioned to see as impossible.

I tried an experiment sort of thing today. I just sat in a chair and started to faze myself out trying to see how relaxed I could get without any special method. I was an education trying to spot the tensed parts and then relaxing them consciously. I ended up so relaxed that if I so much as breathed unevenly I started to fall over. Quite the feeling.
I felt some buzz while relaxing but alas, no cigar.

The good thing about this renewed iinterest in OBE is te dreams I've been having recently. Hugely entertaining. I try to write them down but in two instances I can't bring myself to write the words. I can remember the dreams byut I can't write them.


Jouni

[Frank]

quote:Originally posted by jilola:

I have this nagging feeling that the whole thing is way more simple than we allow ourselves to believe. I mean, if eeveryone does it when they sleep it would mean that it really doesn't take much of an effort and knowledge but rather simple acceptance of the fact hat OBE happens.  It's a matter of unlearning what we've been conditioned to see as impossible.

Jouni

That last sentence is ever so true. Well done for putting it so well.

Yours,
Frank

[Patty]

In terms of the 'fun' and 'mind-expanding' qualities that accompany astral travel, I don't think it matters much if we are awake or asleep when the experience happens - provided we remember the experience.

But in terms of understanding the underlying reason for the human experience of OBE, yes it matters if we are awake or asleep when we have the experience.  Because it matters if it is (a) a dream, or  (b) an objective state of being separate from a physical vehicle for consciousness.  (One could likewise ask whether it matters if dreams are 'real' or not - and obviously with some dreams, like the ones where I am strangling my children, it does.)

If it is a dream (even if it does not feel like a dream) then OBEs say nothing about consciousness surviving bodily death.

If it is not a dream, but is truly an objective state where we are conscious and without a body, then that is a strong piece of evidence that we survive bodily death.

Finally, it matters whether we are awake or asleep from an experiential point of view because when approached from a sleeping state there tends (for me) to be more dream elements, and less-than-complete consciousness.  I personally prefer more completely conscious episodes wherein I recognize inconsistencies between the experience and physical reality, and the more 'concrete' the experience -  the better. (that is, the more it reflects physical reality, the better.)  Again, this gets to my search for verification, and the question of whether we survive bodily death. I have had some very nicely verified experiences, but I am far from 100% convinced that OBE's reflect an objective state of being separate from the body.

(I'm a hard case, due to losing to a child.)

Patty

[jilola]

Patty: My condolances on your loss. I trust this is not too recent?
You made a point though. There is more to researching OBE than just the entertainment side that is the obvious application.
The serious side indeed requires an objective and fully consciious experience to be valid.

I firmly believe that this physical realm is not all there is, I just don't have anything to prove it with.  The notioin that we are nothing but a bunch of chemical that just happen to be in the right proportions to each other is just downright ridiculous to me.
As  much as I tend to shun away from quoting film dialogue I submit this:
"Luminous beings are we. Not this crude matter" - Yoda
If we aren't where is the point? If we aren't why are we conscious of our individuality?
And I for one refuse to be just a heap of elements.


jouni

[Patty]

Hi Jouni,

My loss was close to seven years ago.  Thank you for your condolences.

I suspect we agree on far more than we disagree on.  That being said, I believe it is entirely possible that there is no point to existence - that we are no more than this crude stuff.

It's a depressing thought.

I console myself with the idea that even if "this" is all there is - this is still my moment of consciousness. It is truly awe-inspiring to look at the cosmos and realize that we have a conscious awareness of it, and that we are part of it. Sometimes it doesn't matter to me if the show ends when I die.

But often I would prefer there to be more - so you know, the search for meaning.

By the way, I agree that a big block is to unlearn conditions that have been programmed into us.

Hey Rodentmouse. I wanted to say something else in regards to your original question.

You know, Robert's book is well titled. "Astral dynamics." Kind of gives the feel of the energetic mechanics behind the experience.  But there is more to it than mechanics, and although I love and value RB's book - I also love and value the books that deal with how our beliefs shape (or limit) our experience. In particular, check out Rick Stack's very easy, inexpensive book " Out of Body Adventures" (http://www.addall.com/Browse/Detail/0809245604.html) which contains exercises that complement Mr Bruce's exercises very well. They are designed to help you identify subconscious beliefs that might be keeping you grounded.

It seems like gruntwork while you are doing it (lots of essay writing and affirmations and so on) but it is really helpful in getting in touch with some blocks you may not be aware you have.

You seem result-oriented, which is why I recommend this book in particular. If you are interested in more philosophically-based books on beliefs and how they shape experience, then go for any of the Seth books(author Jane Roberts). Also, author Bruce Moen frames his thinking on nonphysicality in terms of belief structure.

Patty

[jilola]

Patty:
Hee, I do believe the folks on these forums have a great deal in common even if there sometimes is a difference in opinion.

Just to take the positive point of view: If there is more to us than meets the eye we only have something to gain, if not we won't have anything to lose trying. And just by searching for the answers to the mysteries we become better people in some small way. Win-win situation.

I know what you mean, it's just awe inspiring to just realize that I can think about the universe and myself as separate but still one. (it's late, can't sleep)
I used to entertain myself (and still do on occasion) by thinking about what the color blue looks like to someone else. Being human is amazing.


Rodentmouse:
I tried the rope tonigh (or rather last night) and didn't get any results. It may just be that it isn't the way for everyone. For me the waterskiing image gets something going though.

jouni

[Frank]

RM: Any thoughts of ROPE or any other "technique" will scupper the projection process at the point where you are at. From what you say, it seems you are beginning to form a focal point of awareness towards the top of your head. So keep practising and it will all come to you in time.

Progress is made in tiny steps, normally, and the biggest potential spoke in the works, is fear. Even though you might not feel fearful, there is a part of consciousness that I call my "protective sense of awareness" which is constantly looking out for potential danger.

It does this by remembering every circumstance that you ever experienced with your senses, and catalogues them in order of danger potential. It continuously compares what you are currently experiencing with this list of potential hazards and tries to sort "knows from "unknowns".

For example, I live in a road that has a dead-end. So there is no through traffic. What I've found is, over the years, my protective sense of awareness has learnt the sounds of all the resident's cars and the times when they are most expected. The moment it hears a car it's not sure about it causes me to be aware of it.

"The Unknown" is a major threat, so this area of consciousness tries all it can to make an "unknown" into a "known". Which is all very well on the Physical but, within the Astral, it can present a *major* stumbling block... as I am sure you are about to experience over the coming weeks.

Oh, and could you let me know, please, the web-address of the online forum where you were speaking to the people who said they could project at will. Seems like I could learn a lot from these folks.

Yours,
Frank    

[rodentmouse]

thanks for the feedback people

Frank it was a spiritual chatroom under religion on msn.com  but these chatrooms come and go so it might be gone now....  I also met a few projectors in the wicca rooms to.

Jilola  tell me more about this waterskiing it sounds like its more visualisation based which im a lot better at than i am with tactile imaging...

[rodentmouse]

hello to the people

last night i could hear a  soft  continuos beep in my head  (like the noise when a tv station is down and  theres just that dot on the screen with the beeeeeepppp)   and i had mellow vibrations for about 10 minuites, like i was floating  in the dead  sea....   where do i go from here?  i tried the rope but  it didnt work and seemed to numben the vibrations...