Confusion.

[kiauma]

Wonderful topic, Akensai.

Recently, on another board, we were discussing the matter of proof that astral travel is 'real' or not.  The discussion went to what would constitute proof, and finally what would constitute absolute certainty, because everytime someone would come up with something that would 'prove' AP was real, someone else would say that they had already done it, and was still not sure if it was real!

This tells me that the only %100 sure proof of anything is an omniscient viewpoint - which nobody can have.  Therefore, there is nothing in human experience which is absolutely without doubt.

What this demonstrated to me was the corrosive nature of doubt, and how we must learn how to deal with issues of doubt, because it will always be there if we look for it, ready to pounce upon our carefully cultivated certainties.

Yes, questioning something can be appropriate and beneficial - to a point.  After that, one must simply make up one's mind, and get on with life.  Ultimately, we have to choose to trust, or sit idling behind the roadblock of doubt for eternity.

You have to accept that there is always the possibility that you may be wrong about something, but that you must commit to, and move forward under, your best understanding.

There is a growing spiritual movement to seperate perception and experience into two polar opposites; love and growth, and fear and doubt.  One great place to read more about it is here:  

www.zukav.com

[mazdaaf]

yeah-- also.. if u never tested things out it would mean u never try anything new. We try new things all the time, even without realizing it... so in my opinion you should take the risk unless it was life threatening or something. You never know what'll happen until u do it :p

[kakkarot]

my suggestion is this: don't feel pressed for time. you have decades to learn stuff in, life is not short []. so take a deep breath, relax, let out any anxiety you feel over this.

also, question everything for the purpose of finding truth, and remember that not knowing something is perfectly ok (eventhough society seems to have a problem with it ^_^).

so do not worry, for who can add even a single hour to their life by worrying? ^_^ but do think []

~kakkarot

[Adinaut]

I think spiritual confusion occours when you are focusing
too much on the external (peers, society, channelings, and
so on) and forget to listen to yourself.

[ralphm]

I went through this when I was in my twenties. Seems like I survived by exploring what interested me the most, ignored what I thought was bogus, realized two contradictory dogmas could be true, did some kind of spiritual practice daily, did not let any person, religion, or dogma get between me and my higher self. Two good books along these lines are The Lazy man's Guide to Enlightment, and Cutting through Spiritual Materialism.

[Akensai]

Thanks for the advice guys, I feel better now.

Nothing more to do than move on I guess.

quote:The Lazy man's Guide to Enlightment

Perfect for me! []

[Nagual]

Same with me...  I became a little lost too, as soon as I realised so many so called "truths" out there were just theories.  And most of them  incompatible.  Some say white; others say black; others say green...  Who's right?  Who's wrong?  Who's purposefully lying?  And they ask you to blindly believe.  So, in which "color" should we believe???  White?  Black?  Red?  Blue?

How many of these "truths" have been proven wrong after some months/years/centuries?  How many times did I read "It is like that.  It's proven scientificaly!"; followed later by "In fact, we did not notice this or that and so we changed our mind...  The new truth is blablabla".  Etc...

For me, there are no truths; only theories...  Some seems to work (until maybe proven wrong).  Others don't work.  The problem is in the interpretation of an event.  You can have 10 people witness something and get 10 different "truths"/theories/descriptions.  An example I use often is when people thought that the sun was going around earth.  At that time it was true!  They saw it every day!

So, in the end, you have one truth and hundreds of more or less different interpretations...  Which one to choose?  I personaly decided to choose none.  Or let's say that I pick a few things (mostly technics), test them as much as I can, and I will make up my own theories (only if I can!), while hoping to be right.  It is slow, and I am pretty sure I won't get very far; but it's the price to pay for "freedom" I guess.

And nothing proves that we will ever (be able to) understand what's out there...

[Meedan]

I was also in a state of confusion some years ago. I was (and still am) disappointed that so many 'spiritual' theories had nothing to back them up. I was always reading about theories that our perception/time/the universe/whatever is just an illusion, theories that are largely unverifiable.

This ended when I read this e-book, so I highly recommend: www.thefreedomofchoice.com

On matters as important as these, believing is not enough. No matter what you believe, no matter how many people believe it, it's not going to change the reality of the universe. For this reason, believing is not enough, we should seek to know.

[Akensai]

I think part of my problem is I would want to follow an ultimate teaching and work at that, but it doesn't work that way. That's why I'm going to try to take my life one step at a time, no grant plan, but verify things step by step. Not that easy, because when the next truth of the day comes around I'm always tempted, and think: what if this true, what if it really is like this then I should prepare myself for...... or else ....... This has happened a few times now, but I always begin doubting it and after awhile I get disappointed whit it altogether, because it can't be proven and is conflicting whit the new truth of the day.

Another thing I'm sometimes afraid to try things for myself for the implied dangers something's have, take these changelings for example, I would love to try and get one myself, to see if it is really the way it is portrait, but when I hear it can go really wrong I think never mind, and then I'm still stuck whit believing or not whiteout knowing.

Then what should I do? Who should I trust? My feelings, but how are they right? My "intuition", but where does that come from?      

I know there are always risks and I should really just overcome this fear and have a little courage in life. I'm trying!

[Nay]

This is a great topic Akensai!

Nagual has a great point and I share those feelings.  

I was starting to wonder if I was the only one whom didn't have a daily channeling with someone/something. []

I know I have something that has/is helping me along the way, but I have no desire to give it a name or a title.  For now, I will say it is my higher-self! and personally I like the idea of a boat load of little "Nays" out there helping the Nay that I am now.. who else is better in helping me work out my problems and guide me in the right direction?  ME!! that's who! [] plus I will have no one to blame, except for myself if I do something stupid..hehehe []

Nay

[The AlphaOmega]

I believe that what you are feeling is a natural human response that we all face some day.  It can come on suddenly with no warning and completely change your perspective on the world.  I think it's a test of how much you really believe.  Certain things will come into question that you once believed fully, and with the new mind set you are able to evaluate open mindedly why it is or is not true without something like faith getting in the way.  In doing so you will come out of the experience holding certain values even more precious, and others you will leave behind.

[James S]

Hi Akensai,

Probably one of the best bits of advice I got to help with this kind of confusion is two words - "know yourself"

Sounds simple, but it's rather profound. Get to know yourself, your higher self, your insticts, intuition, feelings, and all of these things can work as a very effective filter for discerning what is right for you.

Regards,
James.

[Jon_88]

Hehe I can belive anything and nothing almost at the same time. If some idea fancy me weather it is portraid as a teory or "god honest truth" Ill just "load my boat" with it test it out until i weary or discover something useble. After ill label it as Piece of bullshitt , "unknown might be something in it ,cant figure out what" , workeble truth (found something usefull,but still not sure of teory is sound)

or lastly the big truth(tm) wich basicly means i can see how it works out from teory and I belive it to be correct .Still i know it is a small chance not be accurate , i belived electrons migrate from + to - and it worked everytime in the most advanced equation. But it was not the case , its opposite. But it is close enough for me atleast.  

Hehe And while i can belive anything(for a while atleast) I am highly sceptical , take the channelers for example , if someone claimed their where channeling god to me , they better back it up with info about me that only god would know(and thats not something i keep in my drawers).

If they claimed to me they where channeling aliens they should easely suply us with basic prosedures to make new alloys etc ? Why would aliens contact us and not suply a far distant planet with last decades inventions? (i took channelings as example also since it was mentioned in the 1rst post, im as sceptical to anything that doesnt fancy my interest for try outs ).

Beavis is another example he delivered a fine proof for TK , am i gonna belive it ? First do i belive tk exist at all? answer :probably. Do i Belive beavis can do it : maybe ,it was a fine video(thought it could be faked as with all things).

So beavis is maybe a Telekinist and have atleast much knowledge about the subject. Thats realy all i need as it doesnt relate to me until i begin fancy telekinese , then i would examine beavis posts in greater detail and ask for tips so i could make a better verdict.
Same for the channellers they COULD be channelig god knows who and i just couldnt care less. They havent tried to make me belive.

[Nagual]

quote:Another thing I'm sometimes afraid to try things for myself for the implied dangers something's have

You have to take more or less calculated risks in life...  You can watch the world through your window/TV, in the safety of your home; or you can take the risk and go outside!  Just crossing a street is risky...  On the other hand, don't run across the street with your eyes closed...
You/everyone will make some errors, will have some kind of accidents...  It's part of the game!

quote:and then I'm still stuck whit believing or not whiteout knowing.

Just put it aside until you will feel strong enough to test it yourself.  And maybe you will decide that these changelings, wether they exist or not, are not worth your time/energy anyway.

Hell, I still don't know wether my OBEs are "real" or just in my mind...  Can't wait to have one in the RTZ!

[Nick]

There is not much to add, as the responses have been exceptional. I agree this is a nice thread. Life for many of us here at the Astral Pulse has a focus on the spiritual, and non-physical realms. That focus is so important because our physical existence being just a tiny part of our entire (non-physical) life.

My belief is that being here in the physical can offer lessons in non-physical growth. So walk and test different spiritual paths if you will, as The Kybalion says: "We are all on The Path - and the road leads upward ever, with frequent resting places."

Very best,

[kiauma]

Many great replies on this thread.  I have read things that made me stop and think, which is good.

One thing that I think is food for thought is that as many have mentioned, people often search for the truth, but something that I rarely see is an examination of the reality of the plethora of truths.  

How could it be that there are so many varied answers, yet so many people swear by them, until they change their mind, as someone told.  

There are many answers out there, and most work on some level for some people.  It is for this reason that looking for the answers that work for you is really a process of discovering yourself.

So, one way or another, we really are on the same path - the discovery of our individual fundamental principles, which is our spirit by definition.  

[Akensai]

Lately I have a feeling I can't trust anything, everything seem to have a catch behind it. Take these channelings (Zeta, God, Cassiopaea) for example, some of them sound very good, almost too good and indeed when you search a little you come across plenty of counter argument. All the popular channeling have enough arguments against them and some of them sound very convincing, the problem is neither site has their argument waterproof, this is making me very confused, because there is a chance it is real and when I leave it alone an opportunity is missed.  

This is not only the case whit channelings, but whit many spiritual paths as well. Many traditional paths just seem to be strict, but many modern paths are just unhelpful or plain bogus. (This can even be dangerous!)

For me it how to lead my life is an important question, like everyone I want a joyful living, learning the things I need to learn. It seems to me this doesn't come whiteout effort, but what is right effort and what is wrong effort?  

Unfortunately it's not easy to find out the truth on how to live. Just testing doesn't always seem to be an option either, because of the (implied) dangers whit many things. At this point it is easier not to belief in anything, but this has its own problems, the truth won't be easily presented at your door whiteout havening to do anything.

The confusion I have, is that I can't see which path I should take in life, to many to choose from, too many people who claim the truth, but how can you be certain you're not wasting your time and bringing misery upon yourself whit any of them?

I wonder how other people deal whit this.

(I hope my thoughts are coherent and understandable)