Seth and New Age Fundamentalism

[Ybom]

This is true, but who says what is exactly fundamentalism any more? I think everyone that resides on these boards has some sort of fundamentalistic belief on some level, and even stating this I set myself up in another belief.
Fundamentalism is NOT a bad thing if you are using it wisely. It's what make a lot of logic out there work, but yes, there is a lot of what I consider bad fundamentalism out there.
I see more of a problem in her stubbornness to change rather than her beliefs. If I saw a good friend of mine every single day and then someone suddenly told me that they don't exist or they're a complete loon, I'd become defensive too!
I see your post also makes some assumptions, like that Roberts is ignorant. Could it be possible that you misinterpret what she's writing? Could it be possible that she's the devil? Could it be possible that you'd have a heart attack 1 second from now? Could it be possible that this computer here will magically transform into a time machine and send me back to the big bang? Yep, all of that is possible...

[Mustardseed]

Dear Beserk
Very interesting and plausible., This point has been a matter of many posts here and you explained it so well. I look forward to hearing more from you on this subject and others.
Regards Mustardseed

[Gandalf]

There is another problem, a christian bishop would not have the authority or power to 'order armies north in 300AD'. Emperor Constantine's 'edict of toleration' was only issued in 313AD!

Only after this time did Christianity become officially promoted by the state ,allowing christian bishops any kind of real authority or power. Even in 313AD, Christianity was still a minority religion, with only 1/5th of imperial citizens being members, and even then, most of them were in the east.

So the idea of any kind of Christian bishop, even the bishop of Rome, who was still a nobody even in 313AD, being able to order imperial armies is clearly ridiculous.

Of course, none of this denies the possibility of a genuine spirit being channeled; some people can't seem to handle the idea that spirits can be just as wrong/deluded as the rest of us!

Take what they say with pinches of salt, just as you would (or should!) from people here!

Douglas

[Mustardseed]

Just thought a additional little parentases would be in order Douglas.

Quote:Take what they (we)say with pinches of salt, just as you would (or should!) from people here!

[]

[Gandalf]

Eh?

So Mustardseed, are you supporting the claims made by 'Seth'?

I did'nt think you would agree with the things he is coming out with, especially considering how he appears to be a supporter of gnostic teachings.

Douglas

[kakkarot]

i think he was saying "don't just blindly trust anybody, whether it be seth, mustardseed, me, you, robert, or anyone else." take good advice as good (plausible or possible), but don't trust it as truth until you can confirm it ^_^

~kakkarot

[volcomstone]

nah just take everything as cold hard fact,

the earth is really hollow, and the pleidians gave us peanuts so that we can develop allergies and go extinct,
the world was created in 7 days, solomon cut a baby in half so that both women would be happy,
the american government really is nice and "for the people"
iraq was hoarding weapons of mass destruction

the cure for cancer is urine, atkins diet is good for you
smoking marijuana will make you a crazed deranged killer,
the american constitution says that I MUST HAVE A LOADED GUN IN MY HOUSE
osama bin laden Wasn't trained by the cia, all the past presidents where either knights templar, masons, or  reptiles

the earth is fine, and there isn't a giant hole in the ozone layer,
science has discovered everything there has been to discover
dinosaur bones where placed on the earth to "test our faith of god"

Kill all the cats , because witchcraft is the cause of the plague![8]

witchcrafth is worship of the devil,[}:)]  everyone who doesn't belive in the judeo-christian concept of god is going to a judeo-christian hell, ruled by a judeo-christian deity named lucifer.

[Rob]

quote:science has discovered everything there has been to discover

You know, there was a prominent scientist who said precisely that....about 100 years ago!! Oooh hahah look what I just found - http://www.amasci.com/weird/end.html - I guess he wasn't the the only one!

[James S]

If you look up the word "fundamentalism" in a dictionary, it would say something along the lines of
"the interpretation of every word in the Bible as literal truth"
- hyperdictionary.com

Slightly more accurate I think is from the Yahoo education dictionary that expands it a bit with:
"A usually religious movement or point of view characterized by a return to fundamental principles, by rigid adherence to those principles, and often by intolerance of other views and opposition to secularism."

I would say that it is true of any belief, that if people start to follow a belief blindly and without questioning any aspect of it, the end result will be fundamentalism, be it Christian, Islamic, New Age (if anyone can really define that dreaded term properly), or the believers of the Great Green Arkleseizure.

Regards,
James.

[kakkarot]

lol, i like your post volcomestone [)]

~kakkarot

[Berserk]

Many New Agers have simply succumbed to another form of fundamentalism.  They accept their channeled sources without question and have never subjected them to critical scrutiny.  In my experience such fundamentalists become irate even at the suggestion that their inspired source might just be a figment of a medium's imagination.  Jane Roberts' Seth entity is an important case in point, important because Seth is cited as corroboration for the insights of many astral travelers.  But where Seth's claims can be checked, they do not stand up to closer scrutiny.  Consider these two examples.  

In "Seth Speaks" the Seth entity claims to have once been Protonius Meglemanius III, a corrupt pope around 300 AD.  Seth claims that, as pope, he "sent armies to the north" (pp. 350-351).  But here Jane Roberts has fallen into 3 traps: (1) The Roman bishop in AD 300 was Marcellinus I.  There never was a Roman pope or bishop named Protonius Megelmanius.  Sensing that her ignorance might be exposed, Roberts waffles a little on the exact date.  But Seth's claim is doomed on two other counts as well.   (2) Popes in this era were merely spiritual leaders of a still small church.  Only centuries later could popes head up and send armies.  Protonius had no armies!
(3) Seth the pope could not have existed in this era.  The term "pope" (Latin "papa") was not used as the official title of the bishop of Rome until Leo the Great (AD 446-461) first laid claim to this title.  Prior to Leo, the term "papa" was just used generically as a reference to bishops or priests in the less lofty sense of "father."  

Seth's explanation of Jesus' crucifixion is absurd and highly offensive: "He hd no intention of dying in this manner...There was a conspiracy in which Judas played a role...The man chosen was drugged--hence the necessity of helping him carry the cross (see Luke 23)--and he was told that he was the Christ (p. 366)."  In the Gospels, of course, crucifixion is a self-conscious part of Jesus' mission.  Jesus' is subject to savage torture that weakens him to the point where he needs Simon of Cyrene's help in carrying his cross (Mark 15).

Seth's account is merely an implausible variation of a universally discredited second century Gnostic legend.  Irenaeus expresses the legend thus: "Simon of Cyrene was compelled to carry His cross for Him; and this Simon was transformed by Jesus, so that he was thought to be Jesus Himself; and was crucified through ignorance and error.  jesus, however, took on the form of Simon, and stood by laughing at them since he could not be held and was invisible to all (AH 1.24.4)."
This absurd legend was created to allow the Gnostics to reconcile Christianity with their Middle Platonic belief that God transcended human emotions and could not suffer.  Since they believed Jesus to be God, Jesus could not have been crucified.

Our earliest Gospel, Mark, identfies "Alexander and Rufus" as Simon's two sons because these men were prominent figures in the early church and could verify Mark's account.  In fact, one of these sons, Rufus, shows up in Rome and is celebrated by Paul (Romans 15:13).  Mark wrote his Gospel at Rome where he could verify his account by talking to this son of Simon of Cyrene.  Paul even says that Rufus's mother, Simon's wife, had been like a mother to him as well.