Is There an Astral Plane?

[dkj400]

Concentration doesn't play a major part when projecting. When you do telepathy, you need concentration because you are using your physical body and are limited to your powers (we only use 20% of our brain). When we project, we are no longer limited to what we can do, you can do almost anything just like that with little effort, so hardly any concentration is used to see. Your eyesight is just natural. In fact, if there is something wrong with your eyesight, you just simply go blind which many beginners first experience. No distortions take place.

Why is it, that when you project to the RTZ everything is the same as the physical world but when you project to the Astral Plane things become distorted and out of place? Its because the Astral Plane is a different plane from ours. And the RTZ isn't different from our reality, it is our reality, or rather very close to it. You are just simply out of your body whilst very close to our current world. Where do you think ghosts come from? They are in the RTZ. They can see us but you cant see them.

Yes, you may not have proper eyes, but you only need eyes for the physical body. The Astral Body has no limitations or handicaps. Concentration is only mostly used for the physical body due to its limitations.

[Michael_E]

quote:Originally posted by dkj400

Concentration doesn't play a major part when projecting.

I agree and disagree with this. It depends on how you are projecting. If you are naturally projecting, meaning you allow the natural occurance of the separation to happen and catch it in the process and go along for the ride then yes no concentration is needed at least for the projection itself to occurr.

If you are doing an unnatural projection, meaning one you willfully induce this can take loads of concentration and will, at least at first. Either way at least some concentration is needed otherwise you wouldnt even remember that you wanted to be able to project.

[Meedan]

quote:Originally posted by dkj400

Concentration doesn't play a major part when projecting. When you do telepathy, you need concentration because you are using your physical body and are limited to your powers

[:O] Then what is the point of spiritual development, if we can just do everything when not in our physical bodies? I disagree.

quote:
(we only use 20% of our brain).

I don't know about only using 20% of our brain, maybe 20% at any given time, but I doubt it's 20% in total.

quote:
Why is it, that when you project to the RTZ everything is the same as the physical world but when you project to the Astral Plane things become distorted and out of place?

I answered that question with my 'theory'.

quote:And the RTZ isn't different from our reality, it is our reality, or rather very close to it. You are just simply out of your body whilst very close to our current world.

I proposed in my first post, that I think you are NOT anywhere different, you just have a certain level of concentration. I am also inclined to think that there is only 1 'plane', reality.

quote:Where do you think ghosts come from? They are in the RTZ. They can see us but you cant see them.

I would say 'ghosts' are in physical reality, not anywhere else. I won't go into my opinion on what ghosts are though (off-topic).

[Meedan]

quote:
I agree and disagree with this. It depends on how you are projecting. If you are naturally projecting, meaning you allow the natural occurance of the separation to happen and catch it in the process and go along for the ride then yes no concentration is needed at least for the projection itself to occurr.

If you are doing an unnatural projection, meaning one you willfully induce this can take loads of concentration and will, at least at first. Either way at least some concentration is needed otherwise you wouldnt even remember that you wanted to be able to project.

This is an interesting point. When we die - for example - we would not expect to have to use concentration to 'see' or control our movements too much. Reports of NDE's confirm this. It is as if someone or something is concentrating for us, in these cases. (higher-self maybe?)

This is - however - different to what I am describing. I am specifically talking about willful projections. I am also sure though, that when you go along willingly 'with the ride', on a natural projection, your concentration can still affect things.

[Colin]

I haven't gotten anywhere far-out in my limited journeyings, but I'm confident that many here have been to places that have no physical counterpart, like the city of Paintcrop, Astral Pulse Island, Robert Bruce's Skull Rock, and so on. I find it hard to imagine that these are real (meaning physically) places merely distorted due to lack of concentration.

[Meedan]

Colin, I do not know much about the places you mentioned. The mind is more than capable of creating 'imaginary' worlds, dreams (lucid or otherwise) show this. It is also possible to share (as a form of telepathy) a collective illusion, and from what I've heard, Astral Pulse Island is one of these.

I should have been far more specific in my first post. I was mainly considering projections that are somewhat similar to reality, but with many distortions. I often hear of these described as the Astral Plane.

I am still inclined to think that 'other worlds' are not on other planes, but rather are created by the mind, either in dream fashion, intentionally or received through telepathic projection.

[Michael_E]

quote:Originally posted by Meedan

Colin, I do not know much about the places you mentioned. The mind is more than capable of creating 'imaginary' worlds, dreams (lucid or otherwise) show this.

If your trying to find out what the differece is between an Astral Projection a rtz projection and a lucid dream, i believe the fundamental difference between the three is the state of awareness. Each one has an either more or less refined state of awareness feeling about them. Also what i have heard but havnt been able to confirm is that the RTZ is very similar to the physical and a physical counterpart can be viewed in the RTZ of an object which can later be verified. I think the astral has no physical equivalent in this way, but i really dont have enough experience to back up the assumption.

quote:It is also possible to share (as a form of telepathy) a collective illusion, and from what I've heard, Astral Pulse Island is one of these.

I dont know if i would go so far as to say that Astral pulse island is an illusional location. Lets say for example that thoughts, especially collective thoughts can create locations in the astral where people can meet and repeat things that can be verified later on at the location, in a illusional location this might not be possible so this would be something that needs to be tested out.

quote:I should have been far more specific in my first post. I was mainly considering projections that are somewhat similar to reality, but with many distortions. I often hear of these described as the Astral Plane.

I beleieve the closest thing there is to the physical in which there can be a projectable double used to explore its surroundings is the RTZ. Whether it is created by the mind which is very possible is something im still trying to figure out.

[Logic]

I think its more around 8-15% while awake.

[NeverKnowsEnough]

Look I know i am a beginer at this but has anyone noticed that when you project there are more stars? OR even teh really big one that i think lies of to the south. I mean it is always there  pointing opposite of our north star. Next time i project i will visit this star seeing as how i somehow managed to get to mars (or at least i think it was mars) but untill then.

Just to curious for his own good

[holy reality]

quote:Originally posted by dkj400

 (we only use 20% of our brain).

http://www.snopes.com/science/stats/10percnt.htm
we use all of our brain, every day... more or less... but obviously you don't use the part of it associated with.. how to fish... while you are watching tv.... nor do YOU ever use the part that controls your heartbeat.... but it's still being used.

but yes if we used certain parts of it associated with dreaming, while awake... for example... that would be nifty and could influence paranormal things to a large degree.

I've never been to the RTZ myself, nor have I ever seen my REAL body in my bed... but one time I stumbled out and fell to the floor and my room looked very vividly normal, just that my vision was distorted then I woke back up before I could explore.

I wish it would have lasted longer so I could have verified things.

I'm not sure if I've been to an "astral" either but sometimes I find myself in colorful/colorless voids of trippy images... kind of like being inside inner eye floating colors... only there are usually thousands of intricate eyes.... and sometimes eye spirals.

probably becuase I like Tool.

[BurningAngel]

yes, holy is right we use all of our brain, just not at any given time. The problem with the "telepathic" explanation for projection is that its just as frivolous as the astral plane explanation. You are replacing one unknown thing with another, and without even accounting for the nature of what telepathy is.
 im not suggesting either explanation is rediculous, by any means, but you have yet to account for your "telepathic" explanation. Or what you mean by illusory. This happens allot, people say "oh its telepathy", as if the medium for telepathic communication is something we understand and have sound theories for.

[Frequent Flier]

Hello, Meedan and hello everyone else, this is my first post. I'm looking forward to some interesting discussion on this forum.

Pleased to meet you all (so to speak of course since it's a bit lonely here right now but, eventualy..[]) !


Alright, getting to the heart of the matter.

I don't claim to be an expert on this, but i gather from all the documentation i've consulted on the subject, that there is likely an "Astral Plane" or other such place or realm as, for one thing, evidently some of these places described - by various projectors - do not correspond to the physical environment we are all familliar with.

While the mind might be capable of generating experiences, and powerful experiences at that..one should not fall back on the "easy" hypothesis of hallucinations, for an explanation.

I can hallucinate that i'm driving a car. It doesn't mean that i can't do it in reality!

And, also, trips to the Astral Plane have - according to some projectors- yielded verifiable ("earthly") info in some cases. Like the one you get from meeting someone ("astraly") and it turns out to be exact. Telepathy or psychic perception of some kind might be invoked as an explanation, of course.

But there is an argument in favor of an "Astral Plane": An astral body would probably need such an environment, as the Astral Plane, to exist and function. This world (Earth, etc.) might not be the natural locale nor medium of travel for that particular body. It might be able to travel there but it would be a forced process.
Just like diving and living underwater is, for us.

I don't know what you have read/experienced, but for these and other reasons (too late - 2:30 am! - for me to get into now), i think that the Astral Plane theory isn't such a bad one.

I have my doubts and questions like everyone else but i'd be careful about relegating everything to hallucinations, just because we know that the mind is capable of conjuring up some big ones.

And quickly, concentration doesn't seem to be a significant factor in this, according to the litterature on the subject.

Anyway, it's a start of an answer. Hope you'll get more info to answer your question.

In the meantime, have fun around here!

Perhaps someday we'll get the answers!  If i'm not being too optimistic![]

[Moonburn33]

we use all of our brain- we just aren't conscious of a lot of it.. sometimes..in some people that might be for the best.

[Meedan]

The idea of an 'astral plane' and a different 'RTZ' has never really made sense to me. I can't see why leaving your body would take you anywhere but physical reality.

We know that:

Telepathy is the attempt to communicate without using 'physical' senses/organs like the mouth and ears.

Success of telepathy depends on the level of concentration you have when performing it.

'Fluctuations' or 'inaccuracies' will develop if the level of concentration is not sufficient.


Proposal:

We see things because of our eyes. When out-of-body, you have no eyes. Sight - while out of body - is the attempt to view things without using 'physical' senses/organs like the eyes.

It is a (very difficult) skill and 'fluctuations' or inaccuracies will appear if the level of concentration is not sufficient.

Getting the correct 'image' while out-of-body depends on the level of concentration you happen to have during that OBE.

Therefore, I am inclined to think that there is no 'Astral Plane', where things are 'different' and distorted.


What reasons do you have for thinking there is an Astral Plane?