Non Alex Chiu Immortality

[Hephaestus]

IMHO Immortality does not miraculously make you invulnerable to death, a sword through the heart or even a bullet can kill just about any animal and its ridiculous to assume that it wouldnt - the only way around this would be amazing future technology of nano tech where the nanobots repair the damaged organ significantly fast from perhaps food you ate that day. lol

Now Immortallity to me simply means you dont grow old, now to accomplish this your bodys cells must somehow be capable of replicating themselves forever without the problem of loseing the material required for replication - As of right now I dont think there is any means to accomplish this, but perhaps someday special genetic treatment can continually restock cell dividing material.

[Jon_88]

One would also need a system of getting rid of foreign objects intaken in the lungs espessially , since it will be significant after a few hundred years or 100 even ,if you smoke.

If not one would need an imune system that assimilates foreign organs into your own rather than reject it, to change the lungs every so often.

Assuming no technology is involved , one would need to get new teeth at regular intervalls , the strange thing is , it seems Humans have this capacity now today!! . A portion of Senior citizen get a new set of teeths when their 70-80(i think it was). Thise teeths often come out very wrong and is operated out. But capability seems to be there .

Only why would nature try and renew the chewing capability at the end of life ? a mutation fluke? or perhaps a reminder of unfilled potencial to go way over normal life expectancy?  

Well assuming a close to imortal state was possible (it is myths  over many countries about great age or imortality , elixir of life ,metusla etc), how would it manifest ?

Something you intake ? while dietry is important and can keep you healthy longer something spesial to eat would be severly limiting in your radius of opperation if no technology was had.But feaseble i guess, most myths is concerned with something you consume and you get to be imortal , but it might have been doctered in at a early state in its creation (of the myth) to make it seem obtaineble to all. This is also the way science will atempt imortality.

Some spesial object that will keep you young as long as your the owner ? This is very into the realm of magic and since i know nothing of magic (or very little) its the least feaseble way in my eyes.

Perhaps another science way would be to cast away the flesh and do a mind transplant into a new body or machine (or the inter/cybernett of the future for that matter), Is this imortality ? Science would say yes . All religions would most likely say no ,as science would most likely give no gueranti for the spirit or souls to be copied with the mind.

The last way i can think of is that we got a system availeble right now .But is for some reason turned off , and its not enough to want to live longer to turn it on (since one would assume there is great many that want it ) . We know if the cells are resuplied with a enzym(or was it hormon) they will continue to divide and assuming that they will make fresh cells and not cancer , then perhaps the answer is literally locked away in the brain.

The brain aswell as the body is a HIGHLY andvanced chemical factory makeing all kinds of strange substances out of water and whatever ells you put in . So it realy is not far fetched to think that body could resuply the cells with the wonderdrug if it realy wanted. Unless off course it is bloody good reasons not to!

One might be cancer may occur if cells are copied to many times (science reason as to this is not happening). Another might be perhaps about 100 years is enough of a try to acomplish something .And if beliving in afterlife the body dies while the spirit/soul gets to try again.

I think if such an imortality is possible it realy would show an amazing synergy between the body and spirit , Perhaps one would need an exelent developed spirit that can output a so strong aura that it would work as a refference line as how the body should be. Then the body would have no reason to withold imortality if it has the capability as the imune system and aura then would make short process of anything deviating from the sence of self(viruses and hostile bacteria would stand no chance ,thought poisening would be a hazard still).

Today it is documented cases that people suddenly CAN get well of even the most malign tumor. Some of them when asked say they IMAGINED they would get well ,others prayed or recieved healing. So assuming no one went out their way in making modern myths. The imune system CAN be used in such a way ,killing off things that is totally disassioated with the "sence of self". Atleast i belive in this.

[:I]So why werent thise people turned imortal assuming this was what happend ? I dunno , perhaps they went on with their life loosing that precius sence that they apperantly had gone trough great length to build up ,the job was done was is not? Perhaps they were imortal for a little while and the brain was beginning to resuply the cells when as mentioned before the sence was lost and the brain shut down this opperation in fear of cancer.

With the result some of thise ex cancerpatients will look somewhat better for their age but nothing spectacular. Imortality is not something spotted in the mirror the next day after it is achieved , it is the true test of time . The body as wonderfull as it apperantly CAN be still needs time to work its magic.

Finnally they had perhaps no belief in imortality and thats why it didnt happen after , why would the body suply imortality if the mind cant take it? thats torture.[:I]

Wich brings up how would an imortal behave after realizing he wouldnt die? Well guess the variance in personality would be as much as in normal persons but they would have some diffrences just as rich people dont worry much about their personal spendings .

An imortal wouldnt care much for the normal "live the life to max and earn enough to afford decent life after 65 years"(or whenever people do retire). He would have an ocean of time. And could easely put off things he be meaning to do a decade or so , atleast after he had lived 100-200 years allready.

Money ? Put a smallish amount in toiletpaper stocks(people of the future still needs to take a dump) or other safe investments. And let interest/dividend and time itself make money. Or retirement funds for that matter ,thinking about the face of the director when he realizes he would pay a kickass sum every month forever !

I wouldnt think such a person would need a mirror much exept for coaming their hair , Since they pretty much would have a pretty good feeling of what they look like.      

OKOK this extended speculation of mine is getting mumbo long so i stop now , to my defence i find it an exiting subject.[]

[Akensai]

I don't think your definition of immortality is possible, we are from flesh and blood and if the body is wounded to the point it can no longer sub stain life, I find it hard to belief you can focus so much energy to heal it almost instantly without losing the bond between you soul (astral body, spirit etc, the part of you that incarnates) and body.

I do however believe you MIGHT be able to stop the aging process, to do this you would have to keep the body in prime health were the body regenerates fast enough to stop the aging process.

The question is how you can accomplish this. We know that there are techniques for longevity, so that would be a good starting point.  

A few thoughts on how to accomplish immortality.

If every cell in the body is somehow kept in life because of energy (what I suspect) is it possible to manipulate energy on such a deep level? If so do you need to instruct the flow precisely to every cell, can someone even accomplish such focus? And would you have to keep this focus up the continuously, would this be possible?

The body has many chemicals working to keep it healthy, would it be needed to control these and which ones? Could herbal alchemy help whit this?

And most important question is, is there anything known on how to accomplish immortality?

(Be aware I'm working on  a lot of assumptions!)  

[Ybom]

Akensai, that was the purpose of this thread, to discuss how (and to make it known to all of us) immortality COULD BE possible, to answer your "most important" question. As to actual documentation of immortality, you have strange myths, the spirit immortality theory, alex chiu, future scientific advancement, and personal beliefs on top of all that.

Firstly, from what I see based on the other 2 posts are assumptions that immortality can never be possible, but I want to know how you, Jon_88 and Hephaestus, know this? Are you 100% sure that physical immortality as I have described is impossible? Can you also prove that I will never be psychic or be able to tk based on the fact that I haven't up until this point? Yes, immortality, based on MY definitions and statistics of the human race up until now, say it is completely impossible. However, belief causes a lot of change to happen. Could it be that we aren't immortal because we're afraid of it, or that we just don't believe in it?

So I ask for people to present factual info they can find on the subject, be it good or bad (or maybe an ability to predict the future). I'm not looking for acceptance or denial, just knowledge.

[Jon_88]

Hmm you cant have read more than the 3 first lines of my post. Where i explore diffrent types of imortality and states how likely i think they are based on what myths ive heard over the years regarding the subject. And finnally i piece thogheater a theory of my own of from varius news/science articles ive read and wich content both amazed and puzzled me.  
The questions in my last post is retorical and is meant for the reader to think and find hes answer while i give mine(beliefs)!

Now to your questions :

quote:Are you 100% sure that physical immortality as I have described is impossible?

It is a saying "those whos is inteligent is mostly not sure of anything , but fools are Cocksure every time!"
No im not even 50% sure of it , I am not sure of a great many things ,since i do NOT dismiss existance of things based on lack of proof of their existance. However I think my vision of imortality is more LIKELY since it has less requirements.

quote:Can you also prove that I will never be psychic or be able to tk based on the fact that I haven't up until this point?

How on earth could i prove that? To do so would mean I know both exactly was is required to achive such skills AND be able to test that you do not have what is required. I cannot even remember making such claims as the last post was STRICTLY on imortality![]

quote:However, belief causes a lot of change to happen. Could it be that we aren't immortal because we're afraid of it, or that we just don't believe in it?

Ahh my points exactly , if you actualy read my post you would see my "imortallity theory" has BELIEF as a requirement for achiving imortality . If you wont read my entire post i shall edit it so you can easely spot the paragraph where i state so ! scroll up and look for thise smileys [:I] [:I] .

quote:So I ask for people to present factual info they can find on the subject, be it good or bad (or maybe an ability to predict the future). I'm not looking for acceptance or denial, just knowledge.

I tried to do so ,to the best of my abilitys but as for documented FACTS about the subject I have Not one . Have a nice day.

[Ybom]

Ack hehe, I got confuddled, sorry about that Jon_88. Your name was accidentally put in place of Hephaestus, because of this confuddlement. I actually liked your post and because of this contentment I forgot it was in the same thread! Gah, stupid memory! Just bonk me over the head a few times for payback and maybe things will be ok? Do you forgive me? (edit* hehe no problem)

Anypoop, despite that, I'll go back over what you said now, and redo my whole ummm, thing (I have a little more time now so I'll work on it as I can):

"One would also need a system of getting rid of foreign objects intaken in the lungs espessially , since it will be significant after a few hundred years or 100 even ,if you smoke." -Jon_88
You do have a good point here, but shouldn't we strive towards being able to do as we wish, and more importantly be able to survive things that we may be forced to endure (well just a stupid example is second hand smoke)?

"If not one would need an imune system that assimilates foreign organs into your own rather than reject it, to change the lungs every so often." -Jon_88
A more complete solution would be to self-modify your own lungs as they got bad. In essense, will them to get better. If this is too much stress, then we'll have to evolve a little bit I guess

"Assuming no technology is involved , one would need to get new teeth at regular intervalls , the strange thing is , it seems Humans have this capacity now today!! . A portion of Senior citizen get a new set of teeths when their 70-80(i think it was). Thise teeths often come out very wrong and is operated out. But capability seems to be there ." -Jon_88
I didn't know about this other set of teeth (thanks for that bit of knowledge), but as you said with smoking, to not do it, did you know that people in Africa that do not have any sugars in their diet at all have perfect teeth until they die quite a bit of the time? However, if an immortal person learns how to consume spirit energy to live from, as some people have developed a knack for, then there will be no need for all of this dental work later on in life.

"Well assuming a close to imortal state was possible (it is myths over many countries about great age or imortality , elixir of life ,metusla etc), how would it manifest ?" -Jon_88
It may not need to manifest, but maybe we just have to learn how to tap into it, and once that happens, manifestation wouldn't be a big powerful show, it would just be.

"Something you intake ? while dietry is important and can keep you healthy longer something spesial to eat would be severly limiting in your radius of opperation if no technology was had.But feaseble i guess, most myths is concerned with something you consume and you get to be imortal , but it might have been doctered in at a early state in its creation (of the myth) to make it seem obtaineble to all. This is also the way science will atempt imortality." -Jon_88
Ingestion of a simple substance seems like oversimplification of the process. Maybe such an item could render you invulnerable in certain ways for a time, but I doubt that any results could be lasting forever. Usually something like this makes for a good story, but I would not persue this route if I personally were on this quest.

"Some spesial object that will keep you young as long as your the owner ? This is very into the realm of magic and since i know nothing of magic (or very little) its the least feaseble way in my eyes." -Jon_88
This is sort of like the last thing to me, and a really good example would be The Lord of the Rings here. I don't have the heart or desire to believe that some wierd random object has any power over my soul to this level, therefore such a path would not work for me.

"Perhaps another science way would be to cast away the flesh and do a mind transplant into a new body or machine (or the inter/cybernett of the future for that matter), Is this imortality ? Science would say yes . All religions would most likely say no ,as science would most likely give no gueranti for the spirit or souls to be copied with the mind." -Jon_88
Simple...I'd rather die. Make a robot companion for me though, that would be fine.

"The last way i can think of is that we got a system availeble right now .But is for some reason turned off , and its not enough to want to live longer to turn it on (since one would assume there is great many that want it ) . We know if the cells are resuplied with a enzym(or was it hormon) they will continue to divide and assuming that they will make fresh cells and not cancer , then perhaps the answer is literally locked away in the brain.
The brain aswell as the body is a HIGHLY andvanced chemical factory makeing all kinds of strange substances out of water and whatever ells you put in . So it realy is not far fetched to think that body could resuply the cells with the wonderdrug if it realy wanted. Unless off course it is bloody good reasons not to!
One might be cancer may occur if cells are copied to many times (science reason as to this is not happening). Another might be perhaps about 100 years is enough of a try to acomplish something .And if beliving in afterlife the body dies while the spirit/soul gets to try again...
...Today it is documented cases that people suddenly CAN get well of even the most malign tumor. Some of them when asked say they IMAGINED they would get well ,others prayed or recieved healing. So assuming no one went out their way in making modern myths. The imune system CAN be used in such a way ,killing off things that is totally disassioated with the "sence of self". Atleast i belive in this.
So why werent thise people turned imortal assuming this was what happend ? I dunno , perhaps they went on with their life loosing that precius sence that they apperantly had gone trough great length to build up ,the job was done was is not? Perhaps they were imortal for a little while and the brain was beginning to resuply the cells when as mentioned before the sence was lost and the brain shut down this opperation in fear of cancer." -Jon_88
I went ahead and put these in the same category. They seemed to relate to the same thing, using sheer willpower to cure yourself of anything. I like this concept, but it needs to be further looked into because this part of the brain process is very vague. I think it might have something to do with Kundalini though.

"I think if such an imortality is possible it realy would show an amazing synergy between the body and spirit , Perhaps one would need an exelent developed spirit that can output a so strong aura that it would work as a refference line as how the body should be. Then the body would have no reason to withold imortality if it has the capability as the imune system and aura then would make short process of anything deviating from the sence of self(viruses and hostile bacteria would stand no chance ,thought poisening would be a hazard still)." -Jon_88
I put this separate for the "synergy between the body and spirit" part. It shows another side of the issue that relates to the Astral world, in essense maybe it is in fact something of another world that would allow such a state. Would it go as far as involving necromancy in some ways? Scary...

"With the result some of thise ex cancerpatients will look somewhat better for their age but nothing spectacular. Imortality is not something spotted in the mirror the next day after it is achieved , it is the true test of time . The body as wonderfull as it apperantly CAN be still needs time to work its magic." -Jon_88
I sense that you're saying that most cancer patients look better for their age. This could mostly be attributed to the cleansing their entire body goes through with the radiation treatments, or even the drugs. I think a big issue is that we all reside in the now timeframe rather than 70 years from now, but that may change in upcoming generations, who knows?

"Finnally they had perhaps no belief in imortality and thats why it didnt happen after , why would the body suply imortality if the mind cant take it? thats torture." -Jon_88
Good Highlander example. They became outcasts, but over centuries of time, they learned to love and take advantage of their gifts, most of the time. Torture is a possible outcome, but a lot of people would also say life on Earth as it is is also torture in many ways.

"Wich brings up how would an imortal behave after realizing he wouldnt die? Well guess the variance in personality would be as much as in normal persons but they would have some diffrences just as rich people dont worry much about their personal spendings .
An imortal wouldnt care much for the normal "live the life to max and earn enough to afford decent life after 65 years"(or whenever people do retire). He would have an ocean of time. And could easely put off things he be meaning to do a decade or so , atleast after he had lived 100-200 years allready.
Money ? Put a smallish amount in toiletpaper stocks(people of the future still needs to take a dump) or other safe investments. And let interest/dividend and time itself make money. Or retirement funds for that matter ,thinking about the face of the director when he realizes he would pay a kickass sum every month forever !
I wouldnt think such a person would need a mirror much exept for coaming their hair , Since they pretty much would have a pretty good feeling of what they look like." -Jon_88
I'm not sure if being immortal would make me more concerned about the way I look or how much money I have. Out of habit, though, I would probably keep grooming myself and live somewhat of a similar life that I currently have. I'd be afraid of being outcast by my family because of my gift, but I'm not so sure that that's a problem anymore. I think we need to focus on actually becoming immortal before we decide how we'd act after we become immortal.

[Jon_88]

Ahh a mix up. Now all is forgiven ,thought i didnt take it very hard. I was merly puzzled over being given claims i clearly didnt state[]. Happy that you actually liked my post after all.

[volcomstone]

immortality is not the ability to evade death, but to embrace it to full understanding, learn deaths name and you can control it,

if you relize death is not an ending, then ,there is no reason not to die, or no reason to die.

[pod3]

I know this much from personal experience, that the force of will can keep the soul in an awfully mangled body indefinitely, but that is not the same as healing it. However, gathering great amounts of energy causes my scars to blister, and they get smaller every time.

Forgive the apparent approximation of this story. I wasn't there, and everyone recites it differently. There are photos of a chinaman named Li Chen Hiuen? (pronounced Lee Chun Hoe), who went through something like 30 wives by the age of around 256. Supposedly, he retained the vitality of his semen, just before emitting it once daily. Also, he ate weeds along his hiking grounds when he was out which people use for the purposes of external alchemy, but it is my belief that the internal alchemy of Daoism is like Tantra.

Some of the weeds he is reputed to have eaten are ginseng and fo-ti. I suppose that you would want to keep the undying body in a good state of health.

By (nonsexual) means of willed visualization I tried to reclaim my spent energy. On a black field, I saw threads which had depth. Some were like cracks colored light shining through, and others were foggier. I saw them coming into me without trying to retain or recirculate them. This bunch of psychic garbage was like my life flashing before my eyes. I deprogrammed the shards to a state of whiteness and continued until they diminished minutes later, but I was wide awake for the whole night. My stamina was high throughout the following day of manual labor, and my eyes did not even feel tired. But, as I did not reintegrate it into my bodies, I became dizzy later the next evening and made myself go to bed.

[Ybom]

pod3, I heard about this man as well. However, no one else seems to have. I'd like to hear more about what you try or find out

volcomstone, I think you're on the right track with something too. Is there a chance that there's more to it than just tantra and herbs? Hopefully we can figure that out.

[pod3]

The retention of semen is mentioned in the Help With Kundalini thread on this site's Energy Body Developement Forum. Apparently, extra energy in the lower chakras starts to erode a sort of shell that contains it. Kundalini, which is said to combine the higher and lower fires, is said to confer abilities such as immortality.

The same energy used to erode the shell of the lower chakras may be also be generated in excess by the use of herbs?

[Silver Incubus]

Well, just a tidbit of info, genetics have found that ageing is the process of the x chromosone to be depleting after ever replication.

So the process of that stopping couold aid in physical immortality

[pod3]

It is my belief that the markers of aging might just be coincidental, not built in. You are referring to telomerase, a chain of sugar which gets shorter with every replication until you reach about 48 divisions? If you can fix magnetic media or sharpen razorblades telekinetically, I don't see why this couldn't be helped.

But I would like to see some before and after photos. If Chiu's like every other "special" person I've ever seen, just five years would show a major difference toward the worse.

[Ybom]

I am creating this post to discuss the ideas of immortality with people, beyond the simple concept of magnets doing this job for you (especially Alex Chiu's rings). Do you really want to become dependant on something like a stupid ring to keep you alive? Anyways, what I'm really proposing is for a discussion that goes into detail as to what might work and things we still need to work on as to build a good foundation for this concept.

First, I will make some points, in a rough and unorganized manner as to what I see in immortality so far. I think by giving y'all (aka whoever feels like reading this) my views, you can at minimum see where I currently stand, and then you have the options to build upon those points or to counter them.

Now to my definitions:
1. Immortality is the act of not dying, and being unable to die ever, no matter what anyone or anything does to you. We also apply the concept of an unlimited timeline to this (this means that without the timeline, a specific point in time can be rendered immortal by the previous definition). Immortality can only be applied to something/one if there is no doubt, and no question, within limit of the human mind that such thing contains the quality (this basically states that this is a human concept and there would be in fact no way to prove something is immortal based on the current posting time).

2. There are subsections to the concept of immortality, to include: Pure, Potential, Partial, Limited, Ordered, and Random. Pure Immortality is the concept that something/one has and always will be immortal, no matter what. Potential Immortality is the concept that something/one is not immortal at a given point of time, but at a future time has the ability to become immortal on some paths (only if they make the right choice). Partial Immortality is the concept that something/one will become immortal at a given point of time no matter what path they choose. Limited Immortality is the concept that something/one that has been immortal for a time (possibly forever) but is able to die given certain circumstances [ex highlander]. Ordered Immortality is the concept that something/one has an ability to turn immortality on and off at will. Random Immortality is the concept that something/one becomes chaotically immortal at random points along their lifeline. These can be further subcategorized, but that is not the purpose of having them here; it should also be obvious as to how and where some of them can be combined into a single lifeline [example - if a person chooses a particular path they gain mortality, however if they choose a different path they gain potential immortality, or if they choose another path they will gain chaotic immortality].

Now on to my points:
1. We should realize that the concept of immortality is tantalizing, but it started from somewhere. With a little insight, you should see that this word has the roots of mort, or death. Mortality is the quality of death, which only a select few people from the 1800s at the greatest, the earliest that we know, of still live today. Based on this, many people have accepted the view that everyone on earth is mortal.
2. There are a potential few that believe that there is possible for one or more people to have a quality of immortality on their lifeline. There are also many more that it is possible to have a future where science/medical research has advanced to a point to which no one will ever be mortal again, however science and medical research is not a requirement for belief in immortality, in my opinion.
3. From here, it is up to humanity to prove or disprove the fact of the theory of immortality. Robert Bruce is in process of uncovering some of the latent secrets of being a human, and immortality is on his checklist. However I think it would be wise to further scrutinize such a topic as this here.

Based on what I posted, would anyone like to add anything?