The Eternal Now

[Kenshi]

"Deja vu" .

[LogoRat]

Well, our present moment is our past's future.
So, our present moment IS our future.
The present is everything packed together.

Whatever we thought about in the past got us to this present moment.
Whatever we think about now creates our future.

The future is not fixed, because we have a free will to change our minds, so the future is harder to predict the more range you put to it.

Tho alot of people live like robots so its pretty easy to see where they are heading.

Your past will change if you change the now, so as for the future.
You can only change the now point,. the past and future are only mirrors of the now.

The memories you have, feels like sculptured memories that are fixed and solid and are only there to be looked at.
But the future feels like a river of thoughts only.
Ill say that the future you think about is as much real thoughts as the past, its the belief that makes you think its not as real as the past.

If you for example think: "ohhh i dont feel good about my life"
Then you are reflecting your present thoughts into the past and future.
So, if you look back you focus most of the time only on the negative aspect of yourself. Same goes for the future thoughts.
You only see sadness in your future.

It doesnt matter where you focus your thoughts.. its still in the now you experiencing it while you look at it.
And the more you focus on those thoughts, the stronger they get.
After sometime you experience a realty that matches your everyday thoughts.

If you think negative all the time, you experience negativity until you change your now by thinking differently.

Thoughts are a good tool, you can analyze things and simulate events, and you can brainstorm about things alot too.

BUT, it is also the source to the creation of you reality.
What you think about affects everything you do, it affects the things you see around you aswell.

We use our thoughts in the wrong way most of the time.
If we knew that the thoughts we use now, reflects itself to the outside, inside, past and future.Then we would focus more on the now and take control over our lives, instead of walking around thinking about stuff that you dont want to experience.

So, the now is everything.
What you do now affects everything about yourself.

[EonianZephyr]

thats very colorfull logo.. but not quiet what i was asking about.
i was asking about the eternal now, and how they are all connected as one. If past Lives Affect the present life. then whouldent Future life times also effect the present? And past as well?
so, something we do in 3000 years could give us problems all throughout our exsistance.
im looking for a little more then a simple explanation of time.
its not my intention to eat holes in mr. bruces artical, but perhapes a "not so simple" explanation could have been a little longer.. i understood most everything, but parts seemed to be missing in his theories. (no offence entended)

[LogoRat]

Are you looking for a Yes or No answer?

Its what you do/think NOW that forms your life.

Your past and future doesnt affect your nowpoint(they are only memories), the only thing that can change you now is the present moment.

You grow in all directions, but it is from the source that everything grows from, the NOW.
The nowpoint can never be a past or a future.

Your future self is only a reflection of your Now.
Same with your outer world(what you see around you).
It is a reflection of your inner self.

So my answer to you is NO.

[Tony M.]

Well, here is my point of view:

I do think that future lives can affect us now. In the future we will be one again, we will be whole again, we will return to where we came from, call it God. Only this time the whole will be more conscious of itself. We know this right now, we know that this is right, that this is our goal because of an inner knowledge. Where does this inner knowledge come from? Future lives maybe?

[EonianZephyr]

logo.. yes or no?? please read the question more carefully and read Tony's responce. thats a little closer to what am asking.. but i guess i should admit.. itll prly take an Essay a few paragraphs long to find the anwser im seeking. if there is anyone out there who fully understands my question, and has some theories to share.. by all means. .ur paragraphs wont be wasted by my eyes, and, provided they make sence. ill understaned them..... anyone?

[LogoRat]

Question1: if our past lives are affecting this one, do to the eternal now, shouldent we also feel the effects of Future lives as well?

Answer1: First, your past lives dont affect your present now, it did affect you when you where there.

Secondly, You might feel the effect of future lives because its just a mirror of your present life.
Take a flashlight and aim it at your face in a mirror, you feel the effect.

But its not the future self that fires off the event, its your nowpoint that is doing it.

Question2: if they are all part of the eternal now, why do we tend to be aware of past lives more then future?

Answer2: Because we believe that it is more real than the future.
We keep the past alive because we focus on it more.
But it is as much fluid as the future.

[Kenshi]

quote:Originally posted by EonianZephyr

i recently read roberts artical on the Eternal Now, and it matched my theories quiet well, but one thing in particular Realy has me thinking. "The Eternal Now" is Very perplexing... he added a new view point with that. one question to make this short:
if our past lives are affecting this one, do to the eternal now, shouldent we also feel the effects of Future lives as well? if they are all part of the eternal now, why do we tend to be aware of past lives more then future? im not doubting anything, just trying to sort it all out.. the eternal now Definatly has me thinking. more then usual..hehe if anyone has any input, please express your thoughts.

Time is circel . Yet, our physical consciousness think of time as linair. When you become more spiritualy conscious you'll notice that sometimes you take a little look outside the linair time view. Some like to call it "deja vu" .

[LogoRat]

its not even a circle.
Its a sphere with 4D depth.

[Kenshi]

4D, is that not a state of consciousness?

[LogoRat]

Everything is a state of consciousness, but that was not the topic.

[Targa]

I think for most people the concept of "eternal now" is too difficult to comprehend.  I've asked people to test themselves by doing the following:

Relax a little.  Imagine outer space.  Starting at the earth, imagine going outward beyond our solar system, then beyond the galaxy, then keep going to infinity.  Can your mind grasp infinity, or does it keep telling you "There must be an end to space somewhere"?  It's almost impossible to comprehend infinity.

2nd exercise:
Relax a little.  Think back through time.  Keep going.  Keep going.  Imagine that there is no beginning and is no end to time.  How far back in time can you go?  (note that I'm not referring to the history of the planet, but the nature of time itself).  Does your mind keep telling you that time must have a beginning and end?  It should.

If you seriously try the above exercises, and are honest with yourself, you will begin to see the limitations of the human mind with regard to understanding time and the concept of "neverending-neverbeginning-infinity".  Then ask yourself this: If your mind refuses to comprehend infinity, then how can you hope to comprehend the "eternal now" of God-consciouness?

The other problem I have with this concept is what might be called the "relativity" of it.  If, in the Eternal Now, everything is happening at the same time, how can anything be happening?  Nothing can be happening, because it's already finished happening.  Look at it in another light:  Some say that all of existence is "God getting to know itself".  ie:  God had awareness.  God said, "I am, but what am I?"  So God created everything in order to explore and understand itself, until eventually we merge again with the light, bringing back our knowledge to the "God-pool of consciousness".  If there is no such thing as time (the linear OR non-linear progression of events), then the multiverse would have ended the instant that it came into being.  God-consciouness cannot "get to know itself", because the instant it decides to do so, it's already finished doing so.  For that matter, thought is not possible, because it would require a pre-thought "time", thought "instant", and post-thought "time".  See what I'm getting at?

I do think that time is not what we imagine it to be, but I think it's much more complicated than most people imagine, and indeed, I think our minds are unable to comprehend what lies outside of our "time reference".

Writing this, it made me think about something I'd read somewhere.  We are taught as humans to "think with language".  So your thoughts are something like: "Hmm...maybe I'll go see a movie" (you used WORDS in a linear sentence, with a beginning and an end).  However, if you can learn to stop thinking with words (like an infant who has not learned language yet), you find yourself in the non-linear creative realm of non-time.  (I think it was an R.B. article that mentioned this).

As for the specific question, I believe it's more like this:  Your past lives were lived in the same linear time-reference as your present life.  Your future lives are yet to be lived.  Therefore you are affected (through karma and other things) only by your past lives.  Your future lives will be determined (in part) by how you live this life.  Although the Eternal Now plane of existance may be out there, 3-dimensional lives are lived within the linear time reference, and therefore can only be linear in nature.

If events are not allowed to progress in a linear or non-linear fashion, then nothing can occur, because time is "frozen" in the NOW.  Past and future are impossibilities if you're stuck in NOW.  Nothing has ever happened, and nothing will happen, because those are references to past and future events.  This is somewhat like a "chaos theory".  Chaos = the inky black nothingess from which everything sprang (including God-consciouness).  Chaos is unchanged and unchangable, immutable, stagnant, frozen in an eternity of nothingess where no past or future exists.  Since nothing EVER changes in Chaos, time is irrelevant.  Nothing happened, and nothing will happen...it just sits there.  From this, somehow, sprang the "light" of consciousness.  In the instant that "something" said "I am", it separated itself from immutable Chaos (the Void) and became God-consciousness.  I've read stories of OBE's where people claim to have actually gone past God to get a glimpse of the Void.  This is the essence of Creation.  Yin-Yang, the duality of nature, Void + God, Dark + Light, and is why it's reflected in everything, everywhere (male/female, night/day, light/dark, sun/moon, etc..)

Here's something that might give you a headache as you try to comprehend Eternal Now:
Indeed, time can seem an illusion, and we're never really where we think we are.  Think about this:  Try to pinpoint an "instant" in time.  What are you doing/thinking this exact moment?  Aha!  But you're wrong!  Everything in your brain is a memory of past events.  Even what happened only a split-second ago.  You're never in the "now".  The closest you can get to Now is the amount of time it takes for your sensory organs to send information to your brain, and your brain to sort it into usable information.  Another way to think of this is "reaction time".  Event>input>processing>KNOWING. []

[Gwathren]

Everything returns as before and everything that has happened before is happening now and will happen in the future. I'm not sure if I agree with the many lives part, although I do agree that there are souls that change bodies after the last body dies. Past has already happened, actually there is quite no difference since past and future are the same. They are the same, they are only painted with another color, but inside, they are the same. The "deja vu" is just too real and it's everywhere around us. But you have already lived through your past lives, for the future you have to still wait. The connection ought to be stronger when you have been through that time (I mean through the past)
Hope you understood what I meant[]

[EonianZephyr]

ok.. id like all who replied to my mail, to read robert bruces artical: (reincarnation.) 'not so simple'
thats what araised all my questions.. in fact.. i dont realy incroporate the "eternal now" into my beliefs. at least not in the way robert sees it.. and just for the record. i have a rather high level of spiritual awareness. to reply to that person who sugegsted otherwise... im just asking questions to others.. trying to raise Everyones spiritual awareness.. after reading his artical. i dident feel that all the ends met up. and quesing from ur replies.. seems some of u dident get it either.

[LogoRat]

Targa:
I agree with you on most of what you are saying, but i must disagree with you on the last thing you said about the NOW( Event>input>processing>KNOWING )
On a thinking level, on a 'acting out events' in physical reality that equation is true.
But the NOW is really not the thinking, its the beeing itself.
Timespace is what you experience here, but the now is the nonthinking reality, its the knowing reality.

By thinking means really to process data to comeup with a result.
By nonthinking, by beeing in the NOW, you dont have to think because you allready know the result in a way.

The best ideas, results comes when you are not thinking so much.
Meditation for example is a great tool to experience the NOW.

EonianZephyr: Are you really open minded?
It seems from my point of view that you are just asking a question to see if people agree with you so you can feel good about yourself.

Most of us has answered your question several times, but you are not even seeing it as an answer to your question. You are seeing it as if we dont understand what you are asking.

Expand your viewpoint friend!
Embraze all the answers instead of just rejecting them, there might be some info that you might have use for.

I posted here to give you answers to your questions, but it seems you obiously dont need any answers, looks to me like you allready have your view and wan to stick to it.. fine by me..just trying to help.

I might have hurt your ego alittlebit, bit i think you need it.

Cya

[Kenshi]

quote:Originally posted by LogoRat

Everything is a state of consciousness, but that was not the topic.

Why not? Consciousness is all about how you precieve "time". To me, when I meditated on the 4th level is felt as  time is "circel" instead of our physical linair awareness.

[LogoRat]

I was just giving a picture that time is not just a straight line.
I could have said 5D also.
see, now i say 5D.

[LogoRat]

When i meditate, i dont experience time at all.

[EonianZephyr]

(doesnt quiet know how to explain this one)
i belive that souls experiances past, present and future.
so therefore, they do experiance time, but not as we do here on earth. i think the concept of "The Eternal Now" has some ideas that are viable, but it doesnt provide a complete working model. i think "god" or the "source" whatever you wish to call it. May know all.. Or perhaps it must Also experiance time as we do. but i dont belive that All the events from alpha to omega are happened/happening Now. i think the idea of "Now" might also imply that the sorce is already complete, but if thats true. then it would be complete at the same moment of its initial birth, or initial Awareness. (whatever u wish to call That) does anyone get what im saying? arg.. its difficult. too many paradoxes.
in closing: i belive that consciouness Evolved, hence the creation of souls and how each individual Evolves.. but how can something Evolve without past present and future? isnt the concept, and Perseption of Time (past-present-future) nessisary to evolution? Even if its on an ultimate level of consciousness?

[LogoRat]

Growing is for me, not the same thing as time.

Time is looked at in one direction and you grow in another.
Just because time seez to exist doesnt mean you cant grow more and more and more.

We can't grasp so much beyond time and space with our brains, because time and space are the walls that are covering this physical reality.

But its not impossible to understand how it really works.. tho i don't think you can input any information here that will explain stuff that are outside of this reality, you will just have a knowing.

Have you tried out Remote Viewing btw ?
It made me understand the fluid reality about time and space.
You can check some media about it on www.psitech.net
I learned alot from it.

[Targa]

LogoRat:  I agree with you that in order to experience NOW, you need to meditate (or whatever) in order to stop internal dialogue.  I just tagged that last paragraph on there to show people that they're normally living in the past, even if it's just an instant in the past, because of the time it takes for our brains to process things.

EonianZephyr:  I also read that article about "Reincarnation: not so simple".  You should keep in mind that we all need to do the same thing that Robert Bruce did, which is to come up with our own belief systems.  I disagree with some of R.B.'s viewpoints, and not only on the subject of reincarnation.  It's no crime to disagree with someone or to hold your own beliefs. []

Here's an example:  I read an article by Robert Bruce where he disputes the fact that everyone has "guardian angels" or something similar, citing the fact that he's helped infants under attack by Negs, and these infants apparently didn't have any "spirit(s)" watching over them.  This is Robert Bruce's experience, opnion, and belief.

I have read many accounts of people with psychic abilities (many having appeared after a near-death experience), where people clearly state that not only are their guardian angels among us and watching over us all the time, but that they can actually see them at times.  So who to believe?

I find it paradoxical that R.B. argues a point stating, "Where's the justice in that?" (in order to support his own viewpoints), yet makes a complete about-face when talking about this particular subject.  Where's the justice in allowing infants to be tormented by Negs?  I don't recall which article he was using the "Justice" argument in, but if you read his articles you will find it.

To sum up:  I have great respect for Robert Bruce, but I also admit that he does not know everything, and just like the rest of us, is capable of being mistaken.  We all must, by nature, have belief systems that make sense to us.  That's part of what makes each of us unique. []

[Reason]

LogoRat, did you read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle?

If you haven't you should.

[LogoRat]

I have yes.

[EonianZephyr]

logo, your right in a sence and wrong in a sence, im not wanting people to agree with me. but a lot of the first replies wernt totaly touching on the question i was trying to convey. however, ur last reply seemed touch much more on my inquery.
i know a lot but i dont know everything. (hence why i asked the question to begain with) i just wanted to see if anyone realy got what i was asking, perhaps you took that the wrong way.
to sugest im not open to Growth is blowing things a little out of proportion. and "to make you feel better about yourself" thats an insult, and theres no need for it. debates are one thing, Personal attacks are another. and it seems to me that people often accuse Others of sharing their own aflictions.

[Phong]

Targa you're a genius. You helped me to comprehend the infinity and timlessness of time when I told myself to imagine whatever it was you weren't describing.

I will live in peace forever. And I always have!