The Awakening

[SmileySpirit14]

wow, how long did it take for you to write that? cuz it took forever for me to read it!!! nah juss kidding. what you said makes a lot of sense...and thanks for the wish of good luck on my journey to my true self[)]

[Nick]

Thanks for taking the time to write that nice post Kenshi. What I would like to add is a little quote from a great book called The Kybalion (a book on Hermetic philosophy by Three Initiates): "All are on the Path, whose end is THE ALL. All progress is a Returning Home. All is Upward and Onward, in spite of all seemingly contradictory appearances."


Very best,

[Jon_88]

Got some mixed feelings about this beeing state , while its pretty nice to discover its more to you than the maker of though  , the observer is pretty helpless with out it (can only experience being) . And if totally rejecting your ego and though(trains) as yourself will off course be a traumatic experience (as you said yourself).

I rather advocate securing better control of the brain and existing more in harmony with "the other parts of yourself" ,in time the brain will change to the "new" person you are/want to be.
Observing thoughs is still nessecery , but to reject them flat out. It can be asking for truble . So no need to slay the ego , just realize its more to you than it.

"Being"(wich seems to be all the rage in alternative magasine thise days) is as far as i can tell. Very much like being totally engrossed in watching a exiting movie or sitting in hypnosis/meditation with eyes open. Being totally attentive and either dont have or dont care about passing thoughts/worries ,and everyone is having it atleast sometimes in a week without realizing it (just as you wake up ,before you begin pondering what to do this day, or seeing a movie you know you will enjoy , and therefore wont JUDGE it until finnished atleast.)  

So i guess that will make the awakening simply the realization of "the observer"part of you or spirit as many call it . I guess one just have to choose how hard an awakening one wants [].

[Tony M.]

Nice post Kenshi, and by the way it is nice to see a fellow Dutchman on this board.

Did you by any chance read "The power of Now"? (De kracht van het Nu)

And what Jon said is also something I'm trying to figure out. How to let the ego coexist in a peaceful way with your trueself? I know it can be done, but it is hard. Is it just a matter of carefully looking at your thoughts? Will the thoughts generated by the ego eventually fade away and is it possible to let the ego only generate thoughts that come from within, from your true self? What are your experiences in this area?

Greets,

Tony

[Kenshi]

Eckhart Tolle is a great man, thanks to him I was able to put more trust in my views and experiences .

About having the mind as your friend. For months I was just conscious as spirit, total oneness, no thougths came (unfortunatley I'm quite unbalanced right now). I figured the mind was indeed a tool for survival, a tool for interprenting information and physical interaction, from how I see it, this is what the true mind is about.Yet, there is this "second mind", the maker of thougth and doubt. You have probably experienced it before, in a test of example. "Choose answer A or B" first mind says: "A", second says "no, it's probably B!", later when you look back, you say to your self "man! I knew that one!" I bet all of us have experienced an alike thing.

This "first mind" is the consciousness which connects our physical being to our spiritual being, a bridge from spiritual to physical, atleast, that's how I've experienced it. The second mind seems to be the producer of thougth, doubt, emotion, etc.


When you observe the second mind, feel that the content of the thougths are already made before they where even expressed in words or emotion, a funny thing to experience .

[halfphased]

you are no mind.  if there are any limits to what you are experiencing then that is not it.  and even that is an incomplete statement.  forget about knowing and not knowin and knwoing the not knowing and not knowing the knowing and blah blah blah.

[halfphased]

if you are blah blah blah then blah blah blah.  blah balh bla bla blah bla blah.  forget it.  put in in words and forget it.  try to expalin it and lbah blah blah bla blah.  do you blah what I blah?  Can you blah blah booo ba blah be blu ba blah my blah?  even that is too much.  and definately that is too much.  or not enough or too little.  and I don't even know what I know. blah.  you'll see.  you'll bee you'll decreee you'll be sucked under the sea and then you'll...  I don't know tell me and try to not lie and describe in 100% acurately and if you can't then only know that you are leading people astray like I am and that you'll forever be doing this but also trying not to and that is blah blah blah and i hope.... well nevermind you'll get it eventually and I'll get it neverly and that is how it goes and goes and toses and froes and you'll know when you know that you know that you know that don't is the know the way that yu go and boy ohhh!  help me. envelp me throw me and know me and go through me and show me and blow the top of me chimmy britches with plater and sandman and I'm drunk as a land man.   I had to throw that in so you know from where I spin but hopefully...   whatever.  I'm lost in my endeveour.   you seeking gold and splendour will switch back to last november when you knew what you know and thought you could go but then in december you gave out to remember that this wasn't that and twitch wasn't a twat but that twat came to be in the bee in the sea that eventualy stung you in the sight of the sun.  yes, so now that you know I have thrown myself away to the the torment of last nights whore mongering you can feel safe and alone in you space that belongs to the whole.  I could go on forever but I'll stop here end my poor rhyme. mispell and let you be.  forget what you saw and rest peacfully.  your friend.  I love you.  I hope you all the best.  Just remember I'm drunk if that helps you.  I've forged my own signature.  because I am...  that thou...  that twam... netti netti.   humble bumble bees us three come a rumbling...
vodka is a dangerous animal

-Love is all we need
-nathan

[halfphased]

whew, I'm sober now.  I'm not sure I agree with any of the things that I wrote.  I am leaving the posts as they are an enertaining read.  

All the best
-nathan

[Tony M.]

I liked your post, whehehe!

[Moonburn33]

There is a concept in Zen called false emptiness- in which the person thinks that they do not exist- that they are an illusion.  What my experiences have told me that when the mind is strong enough to be unbiased- it realizes that a personality is a Quantum unit.  It is a particle and a wave.  It is nothing and it is everything.  When you become enlightened you become one with god, but god also becomes one with you.

To say that we ought to ignore or supress our own impulses from our "false selves" as you implied is to invite dissassociative tendencies to develop.  We say "i'm hungry" because WE are hungry.  it doesn't matter if the concept of WE is real- we think it is, so we have to go with it.  no amount of changing the final output of thought will change that initial impulse.
 Yes, all religions and spiritual practices are going toward the same goal- (sort of uncreative in my mind) all roads lead to the one "city", rivers to the ocean and all that.  What you have to remember though is that every road, every river is the same length.  THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS.

So learn to breathe and balance yourself out.  find out what your body/self really wants and go with that- because you can't do anymore than that.

always remember to spiral out- but don't stop, don't become comfortable with your opinions and conceptions of reality- because they're wrong, no matter what they are.  Listen to Tool.

[Targa]

quote:Originally posted by Tony M.

And what Jon said is also something I'm trying to figure out. How to let the ego coexist in a peaceful way with your trueself? I know it can be done, but it is hard. Is it just a matter of carefully looking at your thoughts? Will the thoughts generated by the ego eventually fade away and is it possible to let the ego only generate thoughts that come from within, from your true self? What are your experiences in this area

First, I'd like to introduce a term here for the Mind, Ego and Body.  I call it the "3D Interface".  These aspects of ourselves allow us to interface with the 3D environment.

My experience has been that the vast majority of us have had our Interface brainwashed from birth to falsely believe that the 3D world is real, and all-important.  We're also brainwashed to think that "Pleasures of the Interface" are the best we can ever hope for.  Therefore, the Interface dislikes the idea of playing "second-best" or "sidekick" to the Soul.  It has temper tantrums and attempts to force us to keep our focus on it, rather than our true nature.  And it always likes to indulge in "earthly pleasures".  However, with gentle prodding along the spiritual path, the Interface begins to have an amazing transformation and revelation... this new way is even more pleasant and trouble-free than the old way!  The Interface may even realize true happiness for the first time in its existence.  

I sometimes use the analogy that my life is a ship, and my Will is the rudder of the ship.  I set the rudder on a course, and the rest of the ship eventually falls in line with the rudder's direction.  As for the earlier comments regarding is it good or not good to be in "observer-mode", I think that misses the point.  The point is not to always be in observer mode only, but rather to acknowledge "the Observer" in us, and make contact with that "still, small voice".  Once we become familiar with this aspect of ourselves, we can eventually achieve a harmoniuos balance with the different aspects of ourselves, and have all aspects active simultaneously in our everyday lives.  Always with the awareness that the "chain of command" is Spirit>Soul>Mind>Ego>Body.

Also with regard to living in harmony with your Interface when on a Spiritual Path, one must realize that loving the Interface more than the Creator of the Interface is the main thing that keeps us from being enlightened and fulfilling our destiny.  The Interface is ultimately a Tool, and will eventually be discarded when we leave this lifetime.  Should we then treat the Tool as if it were the most important thing in the world?  No, we must bend the Tool to the work at hand, regardless of whether or not that Tool whines and complains about it.  Eventually it will learn to become compliant to our Will, and the Path is not without its rewards.

[beavis]

Targa: the "chain of command" is Spirit>Soul>Mind>Ego>Body

I thought it was
spirit=soul <---- mind ----> ego/body
Mind is the sum of those.

What are those 5 and where are they all located?

[Moonburn33]

why do you accept on blind faith that your personality is not "ultimately" important and that it should be bent according to some imposing will.

the idea of will comes from the personality.  it is a individual action- not a divine one.

[rodentmouse]

Kenshi, i feel  that way too, that the fundamental essence of who we are is pure awareness,  the mind/identity  is like a survival tool, it should be used in conjuction with  the spirit,  not to shadow it completely.
The most important universal truth in this day is that we are all identicle in every way.  Beyond our ego we are all units of awareness, thats *most likely*  our truer  nature.
Problem is that people are swamped in all the random, irrational and out of control thoughts which they believe is all that there is to them.
Knowing this is one thing but following it is another- learning to meditate is like a transition from one state to another,  it reveals a lot of mess  which  you never knew was there,  but had control over your thoughts and actions.  Trying to filter the good states from the bad are a difficult job-  you have to abandon all the negative behavoural patterns which govern how aware you  were/are in any situation.

SOMEWHERE INSIDE US KNOWS.

we think we know but we dont
we think we see but we're blind
we think we feel but we're numb
we dont  think we are but we are
we are it, and of it.
we wish we knew our wishes came true.
we fear the signs -yet they are light,
we know not spirit, wrong or right
we know our fate but have no memory
as it was, is and will be
freedom will be liberated
and all truths unite
life is clarified
as it was, is and will be.
As day turns to night as light fades away
as night turns to day, theres more in-sight,
to see itself how far it can go
knowing it is limeted by itself, realising
a circle has no beggining or end
but can alter in size.
When we know everything
we become part of the blueprint
intimatly knowing  WHY.

[Targa]

Beavis:  Spirit>Soul>Mind>Ego>Body goes like so:  Spirit is the pure essence of what we are.  Call it "god-consciousness", "creative awareness", or whatever...it is the "pure divinity within".  Soul is the sum total of accumulated knowledge, wisdom, experience, etc... ie:  Every thing we have experienced from the time of our initial creation, including human incarnations and time spent in other planes, etc.  Or, to put it another way, Spirit + Evolution = Soul.  Sorta like saying everyone is the same in "fetus stage", but the older they get and the more they experience, the more they differ from each other and develop uniqueness.  Mind is pretty much a synonym for "brain power".  Mind = pure thought-power.  Ego is a mixture of a part of Mind/Body, and is specifically that part that thinks "I" or "my" in terms of ownership.  Like "my feelings", "my car", "I like icecream", etc.  Ego is completely selfish, and is only concerned with its own survival, comfort, and pleasure.  Body is of course just the physical sheathe and has no will of its own.  It can be said to be ruled by its nervous system and basic survival instinct.  It can communicate such things as "I'm tired, let me rest" and other basic messages, such as pain and pleasure.  The Ego is tied into the body in that while the body will enjoy a pleasant sensation, the Ego will want to indulge in it.  These, of course, are just my own personal classifications, and are not meant to be authoritative or the only possible explanation.

The above must also be amended with regard to your thoughts on Mind.  As humans we tend to use our Minds for everything from the mundane to the metaphysical, but are almost always limited by our own knowledge and experience.  This is what I mean by "Mind".  When we die and leave the Body, Ego, and "human Mind" behind, this does not mean that we can no longer have thoughts as a Soul.  It may be better to think of Mind in terms of conscious, subconscious, and superconscious.

Moonburn33:  Personality is not "ultimately important" because our souls formulate new personalities for every different incarnation, choosing attributes that are best suited for accomplishing the task(s) at hand for that lifetime.  Our personality traits are just a handful of the total traits of our Soul, which is ultimately hermaphroditic in the sense that it has a blend of masculine and feminine qualities and traits that it has accumulated and that it uses in the appropriate circumstances.  For example, if someone was a female in a previous lifetime, and was considered a seductress, that would hardly be a suitable personality trait to carry over to a modern man who is say...a brick mason.  Many people fear death for this reason, or, as I have done, argued fervently that I would "remain myself" even after death.  Mostly because I fantasized about doing lots of cool things after I die, which I wouldn't be able to do if I was "absorbed" into an Oversoul.  I have come to realize that it's more of an "expansion" of who you are rather than "absorption".  Nevertheless, many personalities still assert their independence by sheer willpower even after death.  Eventually they must return to their source, however.  Again, this is just my opinion/conjecture since I'm not dead yet. []

[Moonburn33]

my argument is that absorption into the oversoul is sort of like the universe cleaning up after itself.  i believe that the ultimate goal of existence is to become microuniverses ourselves.  to turn all of the aspects of our personalities and our souls into a unified organism (not any more personality than soul... something completely different).  This organism would not be able to be broken down into parts- it would be an Individual.

every man and every woman is a star- Aleister Crowley

[LogoRat]

Very good post!

[Moonburn33]

somebody post something.  i WILL resort to talking to myself on here.

[galacticsurfer]

I find this topic relevant to me right now as I got interested in Lucid dreaming and OBEs a few weeks ago while at a kundalini chat group.

On a lucid dreaming web site I found through the links the guy mentioned being observer or mindful during the day to have more success at lucid dreaming. For me I found that to be quite a cool way of going into meditation during the day. I sort of gave my head a bath of energy to chill it out when my thoughts got too loud and got mellowed out immediately. I found however after awhile that the existence of the thoughts alone is not the problem. I mean when I just stop really thinking this does not makee happy or enlightened on a permanent basis. I gradually noticed as I observed my dreams and used mindfulness that I got into deeper territory of the cause of my thoughts, my deeper subconscious motivations, not just the superficial everyday thoughts themselves, but who I am or who I think I am in a deeper sense of my self concept drifting up in my dreams and becoming really obvious so that I stopped believing mindfulness in and of itself was the answer but instead just a stepping stone to quieting the mind so I could dig up all the deeper psychological garbage/ belief systems , etc. stopping me from becoming happy and successful and enlightened. Awareness of these bad and self destructive attitudes stopping spiritual development is really the key. Developing a positive mind set and not letting the feelings which exist (if the thought takes on a concrete form or not) go by without getting noticed. So one does not just observe thoughts but also feelings and deeper neuroses until one finds one's true self under all the protective layers built up over the years( and reincarnations?).

Anyway, I left an e-book in word format "the power of mindfulness" copied over from a buddhist site for reference on the e-book downloads here and also as attachment to this e-mail( I hope that that works out as I never tried uploading before). As I knew nothing about buddhism before seeing this text and myself having come along on the "yoga path" I found it new and interesting to read (30 pages) and practical without much jargon.


Document: The Power of Mindfulness.doc 113920 bytes

[galacticsurfer]

I have just been rereading this mindfulness text for the first time in 3 weeks. A thought occurred to me that, similarly to the NEW method of RB, mindfulness is an idiot proof, very thorough and simple method to enlightenment which once its usefulness is discovered everyone says autmatically "why didn't I think of that?". Am I comparing RB to Buddha as a genius in discovering the obvious? Well, maybe just in packaging it for the masses without a big Guru trip.

[wendi]

Dear Kenshi:

May your path lead you to your highest Good.

If you feel unbalanced you can try some Bach Flower Scleranthus.  Please PM me if you need help figuring out how to use it.

Mutual Welfare and Benefit

[Kenshi]

The Awakening...

We all had this question at least once in our minds. What and who are we? Many children ask their parents this, many parents offer the child's name as a doubtful answer. Is this true? Are we merely a name, a title, born to be a label, a label to be forgotton as soon as you die? The answer to that is clear and simple... NO.

The reason I have written these words is because so many people are denying their selves. Denying our spiritual capabilities, our true consciousness. I am a fellow equal human being, showing you the part of you your ego-mask/mind has denied for such a long time. I'm merely here to write helping words.

Yet, what about multiple truths? Isn't it true that different truths apply to every unique person? Yes, that is indeed true. Yet there are truths we all share. You can see life as a tree, it's twigs are our life situations and the leafs are our truths. But still, we all share that truth, the truth that we all come down to the tree and it's roots. A truth we all share. A good every-day example is progress. We all learn everyday, we learn, we teach, consciously or not. We all do it. I'm here to share such a truth with you, a truth we have been denying and blinding our selves from, our spirit selves.

"René Descartes... I think, there for I am."
Descartes sure succeeded well in expressing the biggest illusion ever into words. What you truely are is beyond that of thinking, words, titles, labels. One is not the thinker, one is the spirit. Let us now focus on identifying with one's true self.

As I stated before, one is the spirit, not the thinker, mind nor the ego-mask. One might wonder " yet why are we able to think? Why do we have minds then?" This is a good question. I will refer to the thinker and ego-mask as mind from now on. We have the mind to express our selves into this world, to interact with it, to import information from it. The mind gives us a sense of fear and pain, this is merely for the protection of our physical bodies. Yet it's lust for protecting it self went so far that it blinded us from the truth, it blinded us from our true Selves, to stay in total control, the mind is focused on the destruction of others. Competition is a threat, even others their existence and opinions. Just look at the world today, people at war, people fighting over religionary believes, people fighting over their truths, fighting over total control and domination, for fame and material wealth. Those who have a more peaceful mind don't necessarily fight physical but express their confusions in a verbal way. You've probably noticed it, even when it comes down to a discussion the mind becomes enraged, it becomes enraged because the discussion partner is trying to prove that person's mind wrong on a subject. Being wrong for the mind is like being defeated from a bloody battle. Not many are able to admit that they are wrong, less experienced or weaker on a subject.

Do you want to get out of this continuous struggle? Then let us now continue to the path to your spiritual consciousness. Observe your thoughts, observe what they say and what they want. Yet, don't comply with them nor interfere with them. Just observe them. Incase you're still skeptical, and still believe you're the thinker, producer of thought, then ask your self, who is the one observing the thoughts? It is you. Feel the center of concentration coming from within your belly, feel that that feeling is observing the thoughts. Identify with that feeling, you are that feeling, you are the spirit, the spirit which is observing the thoughts made by the mind. Breathe deeply trough your belly, let the air given by nature bring your consciousness back to your true self. Feel the warmth taking place within your belly, feel it's love. Feel the true passion of Being. Are you still having trouble with all this? No worries, do not expect great results on the first few attempts. Do not expect at all. Expectations are coming from the mind, a lust for what is want to be gained in the near future. Learn to live Here and Now. Live on the moment. Practice from time to time, meditation is a great way to make the realizations about the true Self. Meditation is to focus, without any thoughts bothering you, it is to be totally calm and relaxed. Focus on your true Self, the spirit, focus on that warm feeling within your belly, focus it spreading all over your body. Keep on breathing well, deep inhales, deep exhales. Feel you being in your body. Meditate like this for several times a week for like 15 to 30 minutes or more if you can (practice makes it possible to spend days in meditative state.) When you open your eyes, feel that you are looking trough them as you are looking trough a window. Notice that you feel all refreshed, energized and calm. To support the awakening simple things can be applied in daily life. Like saying when in need of food; "my body needs food" instead of "I am hungry" or when the body needs sleep say "my body is tired, it needs to rest" instead of "I'm tired". As you are looking trough your eyes, see the world from the spirit self. Observe it like you haven't done before.

The mind will completely dislike the realizations you have made, for it will lose control. It will try to hurt you. It will try to make you depressed, to make you hate your self. It shall try to influence you with negative thoughts and emotions. Do not comply with these thoughts, it is just the mind trying to strike back. Observe your thoughts with a smile, do not interfere. Interference with the mind is like providing fire with wood. This fase is actually the hardest part. The mind will create all types of negative emotions, always keep observing. See the mind as a young spoiled child. It is unknowledgeable and mortal. You have lived many lives, the mind not even one. Smile upon the mind, for it is a child which knows nothing but lust for control. To fight the mind is like fighting fire with fire, the result is merely a bigger fire, this goes for everything in life. Learn to answer all negativity with positivity, even in daily life.

It is very important that you will learn to forgive. To forgive your self and other people. Having wrath is merely an expression of the mind. Having wrath will continue making one feel bad, no one will grow from it. Acceptance too is a very important element. Accept the fact that the mind is there, do not fight it. Learn to accept what and who you are, learn to accept how the world is, accept how people are, if you like them or not. Not accepting them will only bring frustration and a form of struggle, it shall help no one, it is not an answer merely a denial. Accept the fact that other people experience life in different unique way.

Always remember, negativity is not to be answered with negativity. It is like painting, having black paint as a complete cover, and wanting to achieve a white color, painting black on black won't result as the desired color, merely black.

I wish you the best of luck with the journey to your true self.

Greetings, love and peace!
- k'shi Jop (Kenshi)
3-1-2004
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