Ejaculation and Energy Loss

[shadowdancer]

Namaste,
    As I originally stated, my view is different Silversunset.  My experience has been that it is the ejaculation that, when performed, creates a level of unpreventable energy loss.  My rationalization for this statement is that we live in a universe made up of prakriti, the stuff of maya; or the temporary and relative crystallization of energy into "solid", three dimensional forms.  The natural acknowledgement then would be that as ejaculation is a moving of a substance alchemically created within the microcosm of the body, outside of the body, and splat, on the floor...there it rests.  Then the energy that that form contained is now inaccesable to the bioenergetic matrix of the body.  
    I do need to get a little tangental here....I have heard---Before Enlightenment; a mountain is a mountain.  During Enlightenment; a mountain is not just a mountain.  After enlightenment, a mountain is a mountain.  In the context of ejaculation, energy, orgasm...I have heard people say; "oh, you can just take the energy out of the semen and splurt away and be merry!".  I feel this is not so.  The semen IS the energy.  The semen is semen.  I feel like saying "duh".  And so I have.  []

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Silversunset, I did not mean to be condescending. I am sorry if I came off that way.

Your idea sounds good if the man is going to ejaculate. I have not exactly tried it. But my point is, if two people are going to practice energy exchanges during sex then there is much more that can be aimed for than just exchanging during ejaculation. I am speaking not only from study but from experience when I say that it does appear that there is energy loss when a man ejaculates. I am not so sure that all of that energy can be exchanged. A lot of it can still be retained or exchanged, but there does appear to be some loss. But if a man is going to ejaculate then some kind of energy exchange or cultivating is going to help a lot as opposed to none at all.

[volcomstone]

what about orgasm without ejaculation?

energy gain or loss?

[Kato]

You need to quite jacking off.  Dont bust a nut in your sock.  This don't got nothing to with chi! when you beat off your face is supposed to look like this:[B)] just like you busted release in your own eye!!

[Silversunset]

Fallnangel:
You said:

quote:But my point is, if two people are going to practice energy exchanges during sex then there is much more that can be aimed for than just exchanging during ejaculation.

i understand what you are saying, but the point i was trying to make is that i was commenting on this:

quote:For me, I don't feel so much that I should lose energy if I ejaculate, nor do I feel it neccessary for me to atone for aeons of untold sin and become celibate

In which case what i say should really have nothing to do with taoist techniques or multi-orgasming, although they both have many practical purposes when having sex other than for procreation - however it was my understanding that this topic was about ejaculating and energyloss not orgasming and energyloss.

and Shadowdancer:
you said;

quote:As I originally stated, my view is different Silversunset. My experience has been that it is the ejaculation that, when performed, creates a level of unpreventable energy loss. My rationalization for this statement is that we live in a universe made up of prakriti, the stuff of maya; .....

i'm confused. if you already know the 100% answer then why bother to  ask for opinions??? seems kinda redundant to me.

quote: I feel like saying "duh". And so I have.

ego boost anyone?

[kakkarot]

quote:ego boost anyone?

sure i'll take one [].

and kato, you apparently haven't read anything in the topic, so please do before replying again [].

~kakkarot

[shadowdancer]

Namaste,
    Silversunset; aye, i guess my "duh" comment was a form of ego boost, and in that way, the upside of it would be that it wasn't aimed at anyone in particular.  So i was just expressing mild frustration.  im quite impatient sometimes.  i don't really have the answer to either question...actually, could you repeat for me each question individually?  i see one question only...but i don't have the answer for that question...i do have some experience and theoretical frameworks which seem to "work".  so?

[Silversunset]

alrighty then:
Here are all the questions i find in your post:

1. First, I wonder what age Moonbeam is
2. Any ejaculation is a loss of energy. Which would be the subject of my topic... (lots of explaination) ...What does anyone else think?

now see, that makes it seem like you're asking for other's opinions. and then you go and "duh" everyone. the only problem with the 'duh' statement is that it was included in the paragraph directed at me, and so i took it as being directed at me...which anyone else would have done. you need to learn to seperate paragraphs.

quote: i see one question only...but i don't have the answer for that question

which question IS that exactly? it's obviously not "is semen and ejaculation the dispelling or losing of energy?" becuase you already have that answer, so whatever could you be asking? [/sarcasm]

and i don't see how impatience has anything to do with it.

[blakera]

I'm not sure I read all of this topic, so I hope I'm not sayin' what's been said, but I just have a few things to add.  One is that I find astral sex to be as satisfying as physical sex for those of you who have it available to you... I also find that astral sex is very energizing, it is clear that energy is gained through it, not lost, and brought back to your body as I've had throbbing in my throat chakra as a result of it.  I've found that while it is still satisfying, astral sex usually increases my sex drive.  

A couple things I've noticed is that ejaculation, (not as a result of astral sex), can make energy sensations doing NEW harder to feel, but that it, for some reason, sometimes makes OBES easier to achieve.  Has anyone else noticed these two things.  

My last point I'd like to bring up is that we are all going to ejaculate whether we like it or not, because we are going to have nocturnal emmissions (ejaculation during sleep), should we assume that we would lose more energy if we ejaculate while awake?

[wendi]

The topic discussed in this thread is a particularly low form of sorcery.  What you are doing is not sex, but manipulation.

All paths are not correct. All paths will be corrected.


"Listen to me. Listen. What if--what if the next time he gets drunk--and tells him...." She took a faltering breath and started over.  "What if the next thing he tells is--what we thought about doing."  --A.G. Harmon

Christ covers me.

[holy grail]

With regards to the books of sexual energy cultivation by Mantak Chia, the latest one in the series is Sexual Reflexology: The Tao of Love and Sex (very much for couple though also interesting section for single). www.universal-tao.com is the site to order the book if can't obtain from other more convinent sources. While on the subject of books, one called acupressure for lovers by Michael Reed may of be interest.

Been taught by Mantak Chia instructors (a couple)in the sexual energy cultivation. The male instructor told us that it took a long while before energetic orgasm without the ejaculation to feel complete. That is, individually, we have a lot blockages on the lower back to be resolved. Once those areas are opened up, he no longer feel something is missing without ejaculation. Before that, even though purely energetic orgasm is satisfactory but the feeling of something is missing lingers.

[Eol007]

Hi Blakera,

In addition to the Taoist work already mentioned above - you might find it helpful to read PPSD, or perhaps psychic vampires by Slate, psychic Self-Defense by Dion Fortune. An alternative read worth a thought is Obsessive Love by Liz Hodgkinson (although this is more along a relationships line). Unless you are a teenager you should not really be experiencing nocturnal emissions! It might be worth trying to channel your sex drive into something more creative and in time you will find satisfaction in a more loving way!

quote:The topic discussed in this thread is a particularly low form of sorcery. What you are doing is not sex, but manipulation.

Hi Wendi,

I think to be able in a free society to talk about sex is a blessing. Consider for instance the impact on Western society by say for instance the manipulative control by the Church, and the resulting devastation swathed across generations of people by wages of sin mentality. The repercussions of which are obvious for all to see even today e.g. the massive numbers of children abused by for instance the priesthood across all denominations. The case is no less true across many other religious faiths.

Clearly there is a blinding difference between compassionate and truly loving 'sacred sexuality' and cheap sex magic. Consider the opportunities for personal expression women had in occidental society with the rise of the woman's lib movement. It wasn't just about burning brassieres was it? Rather was it not about the female half of humanity becoming empowered as individuals, and enjoying choice and free will in all aspects of their lives including sexual expression.

I think this thread demonstrates as a good example: the need MEN are now facing in terms of learning about their sexuality, and loving expression and not about how they would return to a male controlled paternalistic way.

I don't think that the strain of this thread is about male sexual obsession per say! Rather could it not be argued that sex like any other aspect of our incarnate human genetic heritage should be something to be truly valued, not only as a force to be used lovingly but also for the creation of good? There is a big difference between Crowleyesque thinking and what we are talking about here is there not?  

Kind wishes,



Stephen

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:Originally posted by blakera

A couple things I've noticed is that ejaculation, (not as a result of astral sex), can make energy sensations doing NEW harder to feel, but that it, for some reason, sometimes makes OBES easier to achieve.  Has anyone else noticed these two things.  

I have not noticed the lack of sensations doing NEW after ejaculation. Sometimes they are even more noticable to me. As for OBEs, the reason I believe they are easier after ejaculation is because you are more relaxed afterwards.

quote:Originally posted by blakera


My last point I'd like to bring up is that we are all going to ejaculate whether we like it or not, because we are going to have nocturnal emmissions (ejaculation during sleep), should we assume that we would lose more energy if we ejaculate while awake?

I do not find nocturnal emmissions to be draining. Ejaculation is not bad or that draining depending on health and age. It can be a good thing. But if you are doing it a lot you will feel the drain.

quote:Originally posted by EOL007

Unless you are a teenager you should not really be experiencing nocturnal emissions!

I still experience it at 26, though not nearly as often as I did as a teen. Something that I have noticed though is that at times I will actually cultivate my sexual energy while dreaming. It freaked me out the first time it happened.

quote:Originally posted by MajorTom

Seems a bit silly to me to associate ejaculation with energy loss.

You mean you have never felt that drained feeling after ejaculation, atleast before you started energy development?

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:Originally posted by MajorTom


It feels like relaxation and a decrease in muscle tone to me. I can see how it can be interpreted as "draining", but generally I feel revitalized after sex, which I would attribute to the relaxation.

Well that is something to ponder. I do notice a difference in the relaxed feeling and the drained feeling. I have noticed that since doing energy work that I do not feel drained after ejaculation like I use to before I started energy work. Though sometimes I do, usually if I am not feeling very well at the time so during those times I try to avoid ejaculating even more so. But you do remind us that the important point is to enjoy the experience. []

[Leyla]

I have met men who are terrified that women will steal their energy and render them neutral. () Yes, a man does lose his sperm. Just as a woman looses an egg every month. A woman will lose an egg whether she has sex or not, and so too will a man lose sperm whether he has sex or not. If not through manual stimulation than through involuntary nocturnal emission. The body will release egg and sperm whether we want it to or not.

If it is orgasm you fear- energy being lost inside a female, could you not retrieve this energy by causing her to orgasm as well? If he is good he could cause her to have several orgasms, therebye taking more energy from her than she did of him. (I knew a woman who swore her boyfriend was a sex-vampire, leaving her exausted and drained of energy. "I feel like he's sucked the life out of me" she said.)

What about Tantra and the Kama-Sutra? The fact is, sex magick is very powerful and very real, the engergy generated can be raised and harnessed.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

quote:Originally posted by Leyla

I have met men who are terrified that women will steal their energy and render them neutral.

What do you mean neutral? One of the main points of the Taoist practice is to balance your Yin and Yang energy, which I guess you would consider yourself then neutral. That is a good thing.

Sex should be about sharing energy, not taking energy. If the goal is to just take energy, that sounds rather selfish and emotionally unhealthy.

quote:Originally posted by Leyla

I knew a woman who swore her boyfriend was a sex-vampire, leaving her exausted and drained of energy. "I feel like he's sucked the life out of me" she said.

Maybe he is just good at what he does. [] lol

[blakera]

quote:The fact is, sex magick is very powerful and very real, the energy generated can be raised and harnessed.

Leyla, could you elaborate on this?  What do you mean?  How so?
Thanks

[BlackBox]

The channeler, Mariniak, brings up an interesting point on how the moon regulates many things, one being the rate of possibly offspring, which means males feel hornier regularly as do females. Not only that, but the possibility of developing a baby becomes highly more frequent than is originally designed.

So males have the subconscious urge to, frankly, hump and release sperm due to frequency controls invisibly triggering chemicals within our microcosmic biology, in order to make the people wish and want to have sex for the purpose of making babies. At this rate, overpopulation and hence disrespect of the earth's natural rate of fruition. In other words, demand is much higher than supply. Kind of puts us on a direct course straight to oblivion...

I think this is relevant because it seems we are innately urged 'nowadays' to not pursue love-making, energy-bonding, but rather humping to have a hundred juniors.

I've been also holding my ejaculations for the past month. Since I'm trying to make this summer as beneficial, spiritually, as possible, I intuitively dislike the idea of releasing my essence for no other reason but chemically induced desire. Damn you moon, damn you to hell!!

[BlackBox]

Does anyone know if any 'good effects' come from keeping yourself away from ejaculating for long periods of time? Like I'm trying to keep my fluids (hence energy) in me right now since the Venus Transit is coming on Tuesday.

BUT! For men, this can be uncomfortable without release and only tension/buildup, so if anyone has any 'mature' [] comments on this, I would be most obliged.

Namaste.

[WalkerInTheWoods]

Depending on your age never ejaculating is probably not a good idea. If I go without ejaculating for awhile, I will usually wind up doing it anyway at night while I sleep. It should be done every now and then, especially if you feel like you really should. In the Taoist book I have, as a general rule it suggests that a man in his 20's should ejaculate once a week, 30's once every two weeks, etc until a man reaches his 60's when he should no longer ejaculate. That may not be exactly what it says but it gives the general idea. The idea is that you do not need to ejaculate every time you have sex or self pleasure. After you have learned a practice, listen to your body as it usually knows what is best.

[BlackBox]

Thank god for Taoism. [:O]

[boydster]

quote:Originally posted by BlackBox

Does anyone know if any 'good effects' come from keeping yourself away from ejaculating for long periods of time? Like I'm trying to keep my fluids (hence energy) in me right now since the Venus Transit is coming on Tuesday.

BUT! For men, this can be uncomfortable without release and only tension/buildup, so if anyone has any 'mature' [] comments on this, I would be most obliged.

Namaste.

I can only comment on my own experiences. I spent about 5 years single and celibate after my first marriage ended. I was in my mid twenties and had been married for 5 years and was very sexually active in that marriage. After the divorce, I entered into a very active, celibate spiritual life which included a lot of daily meditation and energy work.

I wondered at the time about this very question you ask. Since I was meditating a lot and was young at the time, there was a lot of energy racing around in my spine and main chakra system. And of course, if I placed my attention on the form of an attractive woman, the energy would quickly aggregate at my lower chakras and make me feel "ready to go". I realized that this might be a tough road, and so I decided to train myself to be able to reroute that energy up the spine into the heart and higher chakras at will and to hold it there indefinitely. It took a number of months of continuous practice at this but soon I had a strong, continuous momentum of the light going only up, not down the spine. And the effect was of creating a magnet in the upper hemisphere of the chakra system.

Thereafter, I noticed three things:

1. I could carry on an extended conversation with an attractive young woman, and in close proximity, and not once have a thought, visualization or desire regarding sex. Very odd sensation for a young man. I could clearly see it if SHE was having sexual thoughts, but for me it was a curious kind of unaffected, academic point of view.

2. Since I was celibate and did not engage in any self stimulation of any kind, my body settled down into a natural (for me) rhythm of what was REALLY NEEDED as far as healthy release of semen. This amounted to maybe 4 times per year. Mind you, this is not the result of repression of urges, I honestly didn't feel the desire or any physical pressure.

3. With most of this light energy, which would normally be expelled in sex, going into my upper chakras, I realized an amazing increase in pure intellectual ability. The mind becomes capable of far greater complexity and depth of analysis and creative thought.

I eventually got married again, but to a truly divine soul mate this time, and the above mentioned program got kind of shot to hell for a while. But I've continued with building upon the theme of raising this energy up into the crown and brow chakras even though not celibate, and I can say that continuous effort of any amount seems to bring continuous, permanent gain.

As an afterthought, I'll add that the chakra development this kind of activity feeds will also stimulate spiritual sensitivity and a greatly heightened ability to manipulate energy and astral matter.

This was my observations on the topic, specifially of witholding semen...your mileage will undoubtedly vary.

[BlackBox]

boydster, thanks for your thoughts.

Can you provide me with some meditations that you use to rise that energy up? I have only recently began to feel the spinal/scrotum chakra so I'm pretty new to everything of this sort.

I've read of some in Pleidian material but any more basic, lamen-termed approaches would be really helpful from someone who is experienced.

If you wouldn't mind. []

[boydster]

I'd like to give you a mystical-sounding meditation for this but I don't really have one. I used brute force; repetition and will power.

It's really not much different than the NEW exercises that Robert Bruce gives. Tactile awareness and moving energy. The idea here though, is that the chakras can act like magnets, attracting and holding the spinal light/fluid according to either your uncontrolled passions or your self directed will.

The lower chakras tend to draw stored energy out of the base chakra in response to sexual passion, hunger, (desires) etc. in an animal-like subconscious way. There it can aggregate into pools of creative energy which gets imprinted with the vibration of the desire which one is fixating on if left for too long. An example of this might be when one has had a sexual fantasy or contact with another which leaves you really horny.

What I did was push with the tips of my four fingers into my sternum and concentrate all of my awareness there at my heart chakra. This tactile sensation and attention alone is aften enough to pull the energy up to the heart chakra where you will begin to feel a swelling sensation. But if you add to this the imagined sensation and visualization of the light rising quickly up the spinal channel you can hasten things still further.

After you've done this for a few weeks or maybe shorter, you will find that this energy has begun to elevate these upper etheric chakras you're working with into new levels of functionality and you will be able to feel them and use them at will for various activities. This allows you to simply concentrate on a chakra and make it magnetize the light up and into the chakra very quickly and hold it there indefinitely.

The chakras act like leakey capacitors so the energy does leak away eventually and you use some of it also. But the light seems to impart a gradual and permanent improvement in the functioning of the chakra also. It seems to be good to just draw the light in, concentrate on spinning the chakra very quickly, and increasing the frequency of the light until the chakra looks like a bright, shining gem. This clears effluvia away which we all tend to have, and it stimulates advanced capabilities.

If you do this continuously for a long time it seems to train your energy body to do this easily and habitually. There is a sustained release of this energy from the base chakra in all people. But for most, it stops at the lower chakras and soon creates a feeling of "gotta have sex". So it is expelled in sex or masturbation. I don't mean to imply that this is bad or something. It's up to everyone's free will what we do with this energy. But many people, if they understood what they are missing by not raising this light up and nurturing their upper chakras, would feel sheepish about just squirting it out so frequently and for so little gain. It just appears to me to be a more excellent investment of my resources to do as I've described.

I don't mean to imply that this is only for celibate people or that you can't mix it up. But there are those "in between" days in any healthy relationship in which it works great to switch to the above strategy.

Hope this helps.

[BlackBox]

Thanks a lot. I will definately put my energy into this technique.

I never really thought about the chakras in that way: Simply by focusing your awareness on the areas, you pull them up.

I'll work on it. []