The only thing we have to fear is fear itself

[Mustardseed]

Dear C.
Well I am certainly no "guru" []but have my own theory about your question. It seems to me that it has to do with a mixture , a triangle of......balance.....maturity.....plus X

let me explain.
1.First of all there is a certain amount of tecnik, a sort of balance that you learn with time. Some seem to learn it quicker (naturals?)but all can learn it. Like balancing on a rope og a surfboard. It is indeed very similar. This balancing takes a lot of concentration and RB describes it in detail in his book. It also involves a certain type of relaxation and focusing.

2.The next is maturity. Certain human emotions seem to somehow "upset" the energy body that makes a separation possible. Various emotions such as the "trying too hard" etc. It takes maturity to just let it flow and trust and to keep trying, patience is also one such emotion and something we all grow in. Have you ever played Golf?. I dont play but tried it once. It seemed that the harder I tried to hit the ball the shorter I made it fly. However when I started on consentrating on hitting it "right" and in a certain fluent motion, it just .....wrooom, you get the picture. It is like that with a lot of sports, balance focus and this balance and focus in spiritual matters often seem to come with Maturity.

3.X is something quite different. I use it to discribe outside forces helping you. There seem to be various entities/spirits or whatever one calls them that are able to help and if not guide then maybe facilitate. It seems that how you live your life for example if you take time thinking about meditating on and considering the above points somemehow influences or motivates these outside forces. Likewise the more you read on the subject and occupy your mind in a balanced way , with the subject, the easier it is for them to help, it is a sort of "tuning your radio" type of thing. One tecnik or tip that has been a big help to me is "to be content in whatsoever state you are in". In other words if you have these sensations 9Some have nothing , nada zilch []) then work with what you got, if you pray do so in that inbetween state, be thankful and try to radiate a content energy. This contentment or sort of peace , and doing the best with what you have so far been given, seems to in my case bring on other sensations. Especially in the beginning.

I myself am a Christian and realise you may not be one, so take this just as my input and experience ok! I imagine that each stage is sort of a room I have to pass through. I will not be allowed to pass each faze till I know the whole room, understand the purpose and have been content being there. If I rush through the room to the exit I end up standing there a long time till I realise the door is shut and I start to pay attention to what is all around me. It is sort of the lessons portrayed in the movie "Groundhog Day"If you havn't seen it you should, its good fun too. This is how it works for me, I believe God is waiting on me and only limited by my ability to recieve.

I hope this is a help if there is anything else I can help you with I would be glad to.

Yours Mustardseed

[cairnsb]

Thanks for the reply,

I understand what you are getting at.

I am not christian but I do belive the personal beliefs do play an important role - ie - is this right, wrong, good, evil, bla bla bla.

Just wondering if there is some blockage (especially in beginners) that makes them have failed attempts.

Maybe you are right, maybe people have to become intimatly familar with each stage rather then rushing "from room to room" as fast as possible.

[]

[mazdaaf]

for me whenever i would try too hard i would end up getting impatient and or fell asleep. When i do AP its usually i wake up in the mind awake body asleep state or i just wake up out of my body.

Do you try at night? cause i learned from practice and from reading a lot of peoples comments on this-- dont try to project at night. Youve been working hard all day and you are tired out and lower on energy. You need to "refresh". I believe that a lot of times when you do fall asleep while being really close to having and OBE is because you are so tired from the day that you dont have much energy left for an OBE. I could be wrong but thats just how it seems to me.

So my advice-- try in the morning right when you awaken and are still really relaxed. Right when you wake up--dont move or open your eyes.. just start doing whichever method you use and you'll have a much higher chance then when you were really tired. I agree with everything Mustardseed said too. []

Best of luck! []
~*~Mazdaaf~*~

[cairnsb]

That might single-handedly be the best advice I have heard...

I ONLY try at night - will try it during the day and see what happens.

[mazdaaf]

haha thanks i feel so smart now ^___^

[cairnsb]

I have been browsing the forums for about a week new and I have noticed alot of people have the same problems I have...

Seems that alot of people (myself included) can get right to that point...right to the "event horizon" were the Astral seperates from the Physical...

Then we fall asleep or worse we get over excited and snap back to being fully physically awake [!]

It has been said that we (all of us) get out of our bodies every night - the only difference between an OOBE and a normal nights "sleep" is that during an OOBE we keep our minds awake and aware. []

I have been thinking about this all day. Why do we (the ones that have this issue) fall asleep at the critical moment???

I mean sitting up heart pounding with excitment is understandable and I have done it more times then I care to mention.

But falling asleep?

What do you guys / gals think is the issue?

Do we fall off into sleep because of:

1. Lack of disipline (OOBE is natural then why this)?
2. Lack of intrest (doubt this but had to add it)?
3. Fear (fear of the unknown or of new things perhaps)?
4. Mental blockage (fancy term for mental fear)?
5. Physical Reaction (fancy term for bodies defence mechanizm)?

Personally I tend to belive that it might be on a "per case" basis.

Honestly (no macho BS) I am not afraid of anything...what does not kill me makes me stronger, and if it does kill me, well...then at least I would be out of my body []

But back to the topic at hand...

From what I have read (this forum and others), this problem only seems to effect "new" people - ie - people just starting to try and have an OOBE.

Have any of you gurus had this problem?
How did you get past this bump in the road?
Is it a mental block or the bodys natural reaction, or both?

In tradition with this forum, here is what happens to me....

I lay down.

The "buzzing" in my ears starts about 1 minute later (even if I am not wanting it).

Images and shapes form in the blackness, most of the times geometric (squares, circles, triangles) and sometimes just colors (looks like a ripple of water on a lake).

Then the "buzzing" noise gets louder and louder - meanwhile parts of my body start falling asleep (tingling, numbness, other more wierd sensations).

The tingling / numbness intensifies as it moves through my body covering me like some invisble blanket.

At this point it takes a HUGE amount of effort to move my body if I need to.

And finally - I fall sleep [!]

Most of the time I will actually catch myself drifting in and out of sleep and try to focus on mentaly staying away.

So what gives?
Am I doing something wrong?
Am I doing something right?