Is there a degree of leakage?

[jilola]

Perception of reality is always dependent upon the individual who is perceiving.
The descriptions of various experiences and phenomena are always coloured by the individual. Thus taking them as literal or absolute descriptions will taint your personal perception. Distill the essence of the description and keep an open mind.
You will perceive thing differently and your subconscious will prootray them in a manner particular to you.
In other words, rings , orb, disks and oblong objects are probably the same thing in a different disguise.
Expectation affects. Will effects.

2cents & L&L
jouni

[coral1]

Hi Cezyl,

Ridding myself of preconcieved notions about what I`ll encounter in non-physical states of consciousness has been a difficult hurdle to overcome:it`s still a struggle.I agree that expectations can effect ones perceptions especially in a fluid environment like the astral.I try to stay somewhat detached with a clear mind but thats easier said than done!

One thing that has helped me alot is the way I`ve started comparing my experiences to that of others.Instead of looking for differences I look for similarities.I believe we need to find the common ground wherever we can.

Happy Trails

[Cezyl]

Here, here jilola and MajorTom... []

It is interesting how Moen and those who follow him percieve a disc, and Robert Monroe if I remember right percieved some kind of wall, behind which were the different personalities/lives. I remember in one of Moen's books, with his group explorations, several of them were at the same structure, at the same time, and one percieved a hall lined with doors and the other a conglomeration of wires and things. It was something like that. Interesting...

"Expectation affects. Will effects." jilola

"Drop expectation. Release the will." Cezyl

[]

* * *

Thanks for replying coral1. It's good to know I am not the only one who has run into this. I shall endeavor too to project with a clear mind, and just view reality, however it stands...

Cezyl

* * * * *

Anyone else with anything???

[thelou]

Fascinating.  I have spoke on other posts, about an intense spiritual learning I underwent back in the 80's.  (Aaahhh the 80's)[]

I was co-creating, and co-learning with two other people.  On several (about 6-8) different times, we came to a group problem that we needed to figure out.  We, at the same time,  went into different meditations.  We traveled through a tunnel like in that movie, where they build two different machines where they drop this big ball and the actress was inside, and she mentally traveled through this varying tunnel, oh what was the name of that movie?[}:)]

Any how, I went to a place where we met 10 other people, the three of us made it 13, and we called it the council of 13.  Anyway, I/we discussed our issues with the other 10 there, and they gave us direction of what we needed to do.

We all three woke up at the same time.  Each and every time we had in-depth conversations about it, and we all had the exact same experience simultaneously!  At first it totally blew our minds, then over time, we accepted it as real.

The point being, that we had NO preconceived notions.  Only a conscious understanding of what our problem was, and a group desire to find an answer.  If we each had our own ideas of what to expect, we probably would have had three different experiences.

So I believe that it is important to let go of what we think/want/believe will happen.  Just go in with an open mind.  It is like going to a yard sale.  You don't go there expecting to find something in particular, you just go to see what is there.  If you then find something you want you buy it.  If there is nothing there you want, you leave.  Plain and simple.

As I am writing this it just dawned on me.  Lately I have been having troubles progressing.  I now realize that I was going in expecting for a certain outcome to happen.  When I went in before with a "blank" mind, I had progress.  The two must be connected.  Will have to experiment with this further.  Funny how you can try to answer someone else question and find the answer to your own.

MajorTom, you have posted on my other post regarding my now lack of progress, what do you think?[?]

Thelou

[Cezyl]

Interesting thought MajorTom. If we let down all our walls, I guess we'd be the Source, beyond words or explanations, but everything. Interesting concept. As I overcome more and more fear I can let down more, and hence GROW more, and become more 'one'.

It is interesting the thought Thelou. It is interesting the find that WITHOUT EXPECTATION you progressed. This relates to what Sanaya Roman and Duane Packer teach in their books, focus on the ESSENCE of the goal, and allow it to take the form it must take. I must be more aware of this.

When you had this meditation experience, what did you do, technique wise? Did you all use your own meditation techniques and just end up in the same place? And did you have the feeling that you left your body? This seems more like what we term a 'phasing' experience. Very neat.

Cezyl

[thelou]

quote:The movie is "contact" btw with Jodie Foster.

Thanks MajorTom, I have been thinking allot about that lately and have been wanting to rent that movie and watch it again.

quote:When you had this meditation experience, what did you do, technique wise? Did you all use your own meditation techniques and just end up in the same place? And did you have the feeling that you left your body? This seems more like what we term a 'phasing' experience. Very neat.

No we all used the same meditation technique, as one of us was the teacher to the other two.  (Not me, I was the newbie)  And yes, I think it was more like phasing than a traditional OBE.  From what I have been able to gather reading these forums, phasing seems to take you instantly to a different (perhaps higher) level of the OBE planes.  As I tend to think that there are several levels.  The realism of each is different.

No there were no leaving or re-entry feelings.  Although there was a definite knowing that we were out of our bodies, on a level never before experienced.    

MajorTom, you have done phasing haven't you?  Please interject the different feelings of entering or exiting that you have experienced.  

Thanks,

thelou

[thelou]

Could the environment passing you by be like moving through the tunnel that I experienced, and is portrayed in the movie?

[Cezyl]

BARE PERCEPTION

5/7/2004 4:40 PM
One issue I have with the reading of information is the potential degree to which information read might color experience. Does reading the description of a plane, if that description be in error, cause one to perceive the plane in the same way, thus also in error? Reading Matrix V and other comprehensive works, like Robert Bruce's Astral Dynamics, what if the detail is misleading? What if they are wrong, and the detail causes faltered perception. I deduce that it is necessary to really seek to perceive reality plain and simple, to read to become aware of what is possible or probable, but to not necessarily go looking for what is read, but to explore and see if what is read can be found, in a blank, open, honest perception of reality, having no preconceptions. The self must in effect be emptied, so that reality plain and simple can be perceived.

This of course entails honestly accepting one's perceptions. I never forget that when I went to see the Source Selves, or the Higher Selves, I had a nagging thought of distrust in my perceptions. I perceived them as a ring. The Author, author of Matrix V, perceives them as an orb, and says the ring is the energy spread on the bottom of the SS/HS. Now did I not perceive the fullness of it due to my inhibitions, or is he adding what is not there. I must assume he went there many times, yet if I go out trying to see what he say, rather than trying to see what IS, I run the risk of coloring my perceptions to see what is preconceived. What do you think?


***

Cezyl