god: real or not

[kiauma]

Well put Beavis.

I think of God as the answer to the questions of 'Where did we come from?  Why are we here?  Where are we going?' and even if we scoff at the idea of 'God', the questions still do not go away.

We can answer that there is no meaning, that we came from nowhere and have no purpose, though I think at it's strongest the case for that is far more inconclusive - because we are here, our existance is very strange and mysterious, and we are heading pell-mell into we know not what.

And when you think about it the God answer really doesn't answer much either.  If there is an infinite 'being', where did it come from?

Therefore, I must conclude that the answer to our existence is right here before us, if only we know how to look and see it - this is our gift from 'God'.  Anything less would be a bit of a cruel waste - yes?

[anonymous]

God: There is no effect without cause.

Take an abstract view of what you think is god, you are getting caught up and filtering ideas through material means and preconciecved notions of what you think the creator is.
At this point in time, you would not understand him if he were to stare you in the face.

Those of you who do belive in god , most likely you are beliveing in a higher reflection of yourself, since at this time you are not able to concieve of him. This infact is not wrong but is not god , this is the unvirsoul concsiousness created by thought and will. A subjective manifestation every being creates. it is not god though. This is the same matter in which satan is created. This god is internal and does not exist outside of yourself. It is your "higher self".

Only the purest of beings are able to understand and see god.
He does not require your thought and will to exist.
It is us who require his will to exist.

We are objective manifestations of gods will.

There is no effect without cause.

[kiauma]

Very clever Anonymous.    Let me use your words to illustrate how you are captive of the very thing you project onto others.


This is the intellectual filter through which you percieved my post:
Take an abstract view of what you think is god, you are getting caught up and filtering ideas through material means and preconciecved notions of what you think the creator is.

This is the judgement you pulled out of your perception:
At this point in time, you would not understand him if he were to stare you in the face.

Just as a note of convention, 'He' when speaking of divinity is always capitolized, even when His nature or existance is being debated.

This is the conclusion that perfectly reflects your projection:
Those of you who do belive in god , most likely you are beliveing in a higher reflection of yourself, since at this time you are not able to concieve of him.

This is the personal rationalizations on which you base your projection:
This infact is not wrong but is not god , this is the unvirsoul concsiousness created by thought and will. A subjective manifestation every being creates. it is not god though.

These are the nonsensical contradictions added to frustrate any possible counter-argument:
This is the same matter in which satan is created. This god is internal and does not exist outside of yourself. It is your "higher self".  Only the purest of beings are able to understand and see god.
He does not require your thought and will to exist.
It is us who require his will to exist.

These are pseudoempirical conclusions stated to look like facts:
We are objective manifestations of gods will.

There is no effect without cause.

All in all, rather regular fundamentalist dogma - but more to the point you fail to point out any reasoning on which we should take your perceptions as 'proof' of God - which is what this thread is asking - WHY do you believe in God?   Not just 'why do you think no one else can know God?' (Except you, aparently []  )

[anonymous]

one of the simplist things in your science is the cause and effect princible. think about the cause and effect statement.

[anonymous]

What makes you think the judgement i pulled out of my preception is wrong. You seem to want more detail. Thought and will creates manifestations in other relms , the universe is powered on energy we cannot see at this point in time, this is the very energy produced with thoughts, enough will and thought will create manifestations in other worlds. where do you think the people in your dreams come from? they are subjective manifestations you have created  unconcsiously while dreaming. in the astral thoughts create matter.
if people belive in an entity it exists in the astral. and thus can effect everyday life. this is the same matter in which new words and propaganda is spread. it is given life. this is the same matter in which "negs" appear. reread the message i did not say i can precieve god. since you cannot precieve of him at this time , you can preceive the highest form of yourself. notice how i called god a He several times. you seem to be offended that i dident say 'I think' before every statement, you attempt to dice my own words to assure yourself what i speak cannot possibly be the truth , for another human cannot hold the truth unless it is you.

big words only threaten the man who cannot read.

[SmileySpirit14]

TO NEO!!!!!
all (well most) of this site is about your spirit and inner-self. if you dont even beleive in god, then you MUST be gothic. people and the galaxy didnt just pop up out of nowhere. someone had to create them. and of course theres evedence. take a look out side. evidence is everywhere. but even if you still think theres not, god's not just going to pop out of the sky. hes a spirit. invisible!!! and i beleive god set us here for a 2nd chance, cuz in the bible, it says there was a war. so everyone that followed lucifer got a 2nd chance to go to heaven. GOOD LUCK TRYING TO GET IN!!!!!!!

[Irreal]

Well. To make things a bit easier, if you don't believe in 'God(s)'(or Goddess(es) I don't care really) What do you believe in?

Science? [xx(] Did Science CREATE the universe? Well, then we have a god called science..
No really, that big bang stuff, where did it came from? And where did the source of that came from and etc etc etc.. To me, it's pretty heavy on the head to imagine a 'godless' world. That would mean it came out of 'something' you don't call god. But it might just be that thing everyone calls god, I don't see how one would deny the existence of ANYTHING.

Personally, I don't believe in a sentient God-man sitting on his throne smoking pot and letting us suffer. I believe there is a 'god' but it consists of Life, not of sentient powerhood or something giving us chances and anything. But we all have different believes and in the end it doesn't really matter.

Sidenote:  God: There is no effect without cause. Where did this law sprung from? It just IS? [xx(] I assume to create ANYTHING like thoughts or energy or power or that whole concept of no effect without cause there is an effect needed that had no cause. The first of effects? Know what I mean? What was the first effect? The creation of this Law? And that was without cause?

Or do you think it has no time and all and it's just endless being, a law that never begun, it just IS and never changed and never will? Never born never dies

[Meedan]

Please refer to my previous post on this thread, if you are wondering "What created God then?".

[kakkarot]

is it just me, or can mankind just not say "i don't know" about things they don't know about?

~kakkarot

[Divine Traveller]

The fact of that matter is that most people really don't care, or can't be bothered to make the effort, even when the Truth is there for the taking.

You talk about not knowing if there is a God or not. Have you ever asked him if he is there, if he will show himself to you. If you hold a sincere desire for the Truth, and you ask that it be revealed to you. Then it will be, there is no chance.

It is humans that distance themselves from God, not the other way around. I have experienced God because of my sincere desire to do so. I try to tell people that they can know God, as a personality, actually feel a connection to him every moment of your life. However so few are really willing to try, to take a chance that there could be something more.

So what is my main point, If you want to feel God to the point where no doubt arises, that you know your purpose, then just for a moment. Let go of any doubts or fears pray to know the Truth, not someday far off or in the near future, but right now. Please realize this.

I am happy to give what I have learned,
feel free to ask any question at all and I will answer to the point that it as been revealed to me.

With Love

[Akensai]

There is something that supports all existence, I'm sure of that, so if you call that god than yes I belief in it. If you mean the Christian Created; (Creator) God then I'm not sure, there could be a god(or beings) that made us, very likely I think, but I doubt it is the way (at the very least not exactly) how the bible says it is.

And think we have the tools to find out the reality of the universe and or if god exist, and whit the right effort we can find out the truth about god, but I'm sure its not easy, at least not as easy as just having blind belief in the bible.

[Divine Traveller]

Having blind belief in the Bible will get no one anywhere because the Bible is just a book, it is just words, many of which I feel are far off from the truth. God communicates by soul because that's what he is. Before you are able to accept that there is a self-existing soul that is deity. You have to try and understand what we as human beings are. A human is a soul, this fleshy body we are in and the mind and even the spirit body are just attributes of the soul. They are accomplices so that the soul can make itself known.

When you seek with your soul which is the real you, with longings for truth, you will be guided to it. But it depends on what kind of Truth you are looking for on who you will be guided by.

As for the purpopse of our existence. I believe that when these physical bodies that we inhabit were developed enough then God planted the first souls therein thus making humans, and perfect ones at that...however I believe that God offered them something more.

It is existent in almost all religions, yet they all fight and kill over the differences instead of those few things that are always there. It has been called God's Love, The Divine Light, God's divinty. This is that which will remove those boundaries that we as mortals have. He offered us his divinity so that we may take it into our souls and become at-one with his great soul and Immortal. Sound far-fetched. Just try praying for it.

[Gwathren]

and I still think that "God" is just a way to call the highest power, which man doesn't understand but you know, it's not vital to personalize everything, so i believe in the existance of the power, but I give it no name.

[EonianZephyr]

( forgive my spelling) Personaly, i see god not as a Male or Female, but as an omnipresent being. (omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient)
"god" is Everything connected into one Omnimatrix so to speak.
everything started and was created from the sorce, so everything is fundimentaly linked back to it.

souls incarnate into physical realities to learn Lessons (Knowlege & Wisdom). in doing this Many, many times. (reincarnation) we ultimatly grow in spiritual awareness, as this is the nature of all things, to grow, to become more then we are.
god does this on a higher scale.. by creating souls it learns more about itself, much as We do from every life we live.
i belive when we have achieved oneness, we become one, by re-intigrating into the sorce, adding to its divinity. and this gets a little far fetched for some, but i belive when all the souls that were created are reintigrated into the source, the source ultimatly Reintigrates into a Higher awareness, from which it was created.
(anwsers the question of "who created god?")

[Veccolo]

(Most of this came to my mind the last or so hour, so there might be contradictions)



To be honest, I couldn't care less if god exists or not. It doesn't matter because I couldn't change the truth anyway.

If there is a god, there can be only one reason for us to be here, imo. If there isn't a god, than the there could be two (!) reasons.

But first I want to say why I think most of the "mainstream" reasons don't make much sense.



Spiritual Growth!

Well, there isn't a uniform definition of this term, at least I haven't found one. If spiritual growth means gaining "knowledge", well, that would only be the result of being "alive".


Be a "good" person!

Well, what is "good"? Who is a "good" person, and who isn't? If I accept the free will of others? That cannot be, as I would have to accept being killed by another person if he wants to, and vice versa.

So what is "good"?


"Love" everyone!

Well, even if get my head slowly cut off, like Nick Berg? Tortured? Discriminated? If a family member get's murdered? Maimed?

You must be kidding ...

"But higher beings are pure love!". So why exactly is that something I would want to be? What makes them "higher" than us, when they lack of so many emotions?

Honestly, I don't want to be an all-loving being.


God experiences through us!

OK, god experiences through us. This means that we are god, or aspects of god, otherwise it would be impossible for god to experience stuff through us, imo. So, why would GOD need to experience EXPERIENCES he created? And why so many stuff over and over again (like birth, pain, wars etc.)? It would also mean we are somekind of puppets, which I wouldn't like, but that might be just me, of course.


Be one (return to) with god!

That makes less sense than anything else. I was created (seperated) from god, so I can "return" to him/her/it in the end? ... well, where is the POINT in THAT? Why was I created (seperated) in the first place, then?

That would be the same as "destroying" a house (god) just to rebuild it (god) again afterwards. Makes no sense at all!

Let's assume this IS the reason. You know what that means? It means, we are like air planes on autopilot, programmed to fly to the coordinates where god is. Will-less beings. Wait ... free will. So WE ALL want to return to god, even if we don't know it? What a nice free will, everyone wants the same!

.
.
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Back to "my" reasons.

If there is god, the reason would be To just live(exist(be)). Why do I believe that? Well, it sounds good to me, and makes sense. God created us (and is still creating other things) as individuals so we can live in his/her/its creation. At the same time he gave us some kind of free will, which we use to create our individual view of his creation (for example, "good" and "evil"), as well as affect the view of others. So basically we are here to live. To be alive. To just exist. That's fine with me, as long as I can watch as much anime and porn as I like

If there is no god, there could be two reasons. One would be to just live (exist(be)), so basically the same as if god would exist. So you can say the creator, a finite, very powerful being (or race), as someone already mentioned, can be said to be "god".

The second reason is a not-so-nice one. We are somehow needed by our creator. Maybe as (energy) food, amusement, batteries or something like that. So, the creator needs us, but not now, we are not "mellow" (ready) yet. We "grow" (evolve) until we reach a specific stage of "growth" (evolvement), and then we are "harvested" (cooked or whatever) and "used" (eaten, laughed at etc.) by our creator. We, of course, mustn't know about this so we don't stop to "grow" (evolve) or find another way to escape from our "fate" (being eaten, laughted at etc.). That's why something like the religions were "created", so the "breed" (we) can "grow" (evolve) the right way (so we taste good, are funny etc.). This  "growth" (evolvement) we might see as some kind of "spiritual growth", or something like that.
I think Monroe wrote something similar in one of his books (the second one, I think), as well as Castaneda.

In my opinion, both would make sense. The last reason (the we-are-needed one) is a bit disturbing, but who knows?


Stephan

edits:
just some grammar corrections ...

[ANTILOPE]

quote:Originally posted by anonymous

God: There is no effect without cause.

Take an abstract view of what you think is god, you are getting caught up and filtering ideas through material means and preconciecved notions of what you think the creator is.
At this point in time, you would not understand him if he were to stare you in the face.

Those of you who do belive in god , most likely you are beliveing in a higher reflection of yourself, since at this time you are not able to concieve of him. This infact is not wrong but is not god , this is the unvirsoul concsiousness created by thought and will. A subjective manifestation every being creates. it is not god though. This is the same matter in which satan is created. This god is internal and does not exist outside of yourself. It is your "higher self".

Only the purest of beings are able to understand and see god.
He does not require your thought and will to exist.
It is us who require his will to exist.

We are objective manifestations of gods will.

There is no effect without cause.

I agree with you in part only Individualism is king these days, and the idea of a higher self just seems to be a concept that enables us to keep our modern sensibilitys intact.
Or maybe you were saying that 'a higher self' is just another false subjective interpretation of god... in which case i agree. []

[narfellus]

I'm surprised that anyone posting to this site wouldn't believe in a divine being, but i suppose this happens all the time.

So yes, despite scant evidence, there is a God. A line of reasoning that always rang true for me is this:

Consider you are God. You Know All. You See All. You ARE All. There is nothing in all of Creation that is not of, by and for God. Sound fun? Not really, and God didn't think so either. So God exercises the greatest abililty he has (or she, it's just a pronoun)= IMAGINATION. Coincidentally, Mankind was created in God's image, and imagination is our greatest ability too. Even when astrally projecting you are using your Imagination to move, to create reality, to create visions of what could be.

Back on track, God, using his extraordinary powers of imagination, creates a complex multiverse with various life forms and agendas. ALL of these creatures forget Who and What and Where they came from. In other words, God deliberately lets uncountable pieces of Himself forget who He is, so he can experience the Joy of finding out again for the first time. That is what mankind is here for. To learn and Grow and be safe and content.  Fear is really the only thing to fear, and there are beings out there that sow fear, because for there to be utter love and compassion in the universe, there must be something that is NOT love and compassion.

So, that's one of my takes on it. There are other interpretations, but my line of thought lets me sleep easy at night. I worry a little about the people who astrally project when they don't even know who they are spiritually. They are opening themselves up to hellacious attack from beings that want to cause you misery and confusion, just because you're there.

[Irreal]

quote:Why was I created (seperated) in the first place, then?

Hmm... you weren't.[8D]

[Sentential]

Maybe I can shed some light on this. God, from my experiences, isnt a person or a single entity. It is a concept more than anything else. An all encompassing force, like gravity, that binds us and creates the world and concesness we all feel. Any more than that and my head begins to hurt. I think that as humans we will never understand god fully. We do not have the ability to look outside our reality and consciness. In order to describe something we need a contrast. How can one describe something that has no equal?

God does not exist.... it simply "is"

[Kazbadan]

YHVH, Yaheveh, means god and means something like "I am the one who i am". I think that bible uses many hided oriental concepts. In my opinio, we are god. We just dont know it. We are the same face of the same being.

Now, if you ask me about one god, one supra intelegent entity, i would say that there may exist a great being, different from what wee know. That being it cannot be classified as a counscious one or as uncounscious. It is different from that, something that our minds cannot understand. Maybe it is the sky that it is behind the clouds  of our feelings and Ego. Something that it can be achieved with outr mind here in the earth, but it will be completed with death (of the body).

[jilola]

You know, assuming everything has a cause the precendes it is self referential. If one presumes an entity that created everything before anything existed one is lead, bylogic, to assume somethign created the entity that created everything and so on.
One should ask, is there causation or is it just a matter of perception? One should ask, if something needs to cause everything by preceeding then what causes that that preceeds?

There is no answer to that. None. Things are, you are. What else is needed  beyond that understanding?

Some believe and have experiential proof that you create your own reality. Some believe and have experiential proof that God creates your reality. There is no apparent difference.
So ask yourself "what is god but myself being what I am and trying to be as much as I can as well as I can be?"

2cents & L&L
jouni

[Aileron]

Pandora swims with us eh?

this is an interesting topic as each person although agreeable to an extent within each others opinions, have our own independant idea of what God is.

I stopped questiong this a long time ago. Not because I believe nor disbelieve, but because whether or not this being/ form/ whole/ trinity/ universe, what have you, exists or not, we are here as was mentioned a long time ago to strive for perfection. The ideal.
We all see the world how we see it, for our experiences differ greatly from what the language of the universe allows intself to reveal to us, and we choose to perceive it how ever we want.

What I have found interesting though, is not the fact of whether or not god exists, but that we are designed to believe.
This is not necessarily fact unless you believe facts exist scientifically.
For example, in the scientific journal among other materials, there is reference to "Proof" that when in a state of meditation, or prayer, a section of our brain becomes more active. That part that of the brain is responsible for feelings of euphoria, or a natural high. The other active parts of our brain decrease in activity and we are able to block out the material aspects of reality, or the physical environment around us.

This really has intrigued me because this either means we are meant to believe in a higher source because it exists, or we have been prewired by something to believe in the divine/ higher power for another reason.
This is my question, why do we believe?

many of us although differing in opinion and belief even when not in the fuul aspect of faith in God in a religious sense, still feel connected to the universe in one way or another.

I have friends who are atheists, and one specifically who I believe was meant not to believe or forcing himself to not, in order for him and I to understand each others perception of the environment.
Yet I know he still feels questionable circumstances surround him, and that although he refuses to put faith or belief in anything, deep down there is something surfacing.

we can debate, argue, discuss the topic of whether we believe in god or not, but that wont change what is. I know many of you, especially neo who started the thread just wants to hear others opinions, and this is mine.
We need to stop trying to prove whether there is existence of god or not, and begin understanding the history.

There is actually evidence though that humans did evolve quicker than they were supposed to, this has been refered to as the brain burst. This is why it is difficult for us to have found the missing link. Many different reasons as to why we havent, but I personally think that there are those evolutionary plateaus that humanity reached where we will not be able to find the link because of the jump in the evolutionary pattern.

if such a thing happened, why?
And if it did, is this the point at which we might have been prewired to believe in a higher being?

What if we were prewired before the jump, perhaps naturally occuring, our ancestors searching for reasons as to why things were happening, and this led to the burst, and an increase in our belief?

these are obviously just thoughts, but as with all the other posts, interesting to me none the less.

[jilola]

Perhaps because we ARE thelimitless existence aka God manifest in individual reflections?
We believe in the all pervading existence but since we have individual perspective we lose the truth and create an idea to represent the truth we are in order to belive in ourselves?

2cents & L&L
Jouni

[Kazbadan]

BTW, is there any need to believe in a god? We can only speculate and that´s all folks. With ghosts, ufos, etc, you can overrun the mere speculation and speak on proofs, but with god it´s not like that.

There is a poem from a portuguese poetry that it is more or less like this.

God is the sun, the trees, the clouds in the sky and rivers.
But if god is just the trees, the clouds, the sun and the rivers,
Why should i call it God?
Instead, i will call it clouds, rivers, trees and sun.

It´s not beautiful as the original and it is different (dont remember the exact poem) but you get the point.

[Eternal_Soulmate]

Here's something to think about...

Anybody ever believed that it all started at the Big Bang wich could be interpreted as a big energy (god??)that suddenly expanded (still is)
That's maybe why we feel that god is inside of us...because we are a part of that expanding energy??

Just a thought or a possible truth?[|)]

Greetingzzz

Jimmy