how to go realtime?

[cube]

My LDs are never realtime but my OBEs always start out with me leaving my body so I start out in the RTZ.

[Risu no Kairu]

A former poster on this forum, Frank, had the same problem as you. He found his own solution to getting into the Real Time Zone instead of defaulting into the Astral Proper.

Look at his posts, you might find something helpful.

[Saints]

Ok...try this..it'll take a couple (2-3)weeks, but if you have strong desire...you'll get it done. Passionate desire is the key!!!

Very Important! The consciousness has an inate desire. The difference between us is the amount of desire we have in obtaining a goal. Amp up your desire to the max!

This is a daily 2-hr bed-time program:
1. Go to bed 1-hr before your normal sleep time.
2. Lay in bed on your back.  Find and use a decent body exhaustion-relaxing technique.  Incorporate rhythm breathing (e.g., breath in over 6 heart beats, hold for 4 heart beats, exhale over 6, then hold for 4 then repeat this for the next 2 hours.
3. Stare at the back of your eyes and locate, remember and feel that 'homesick' feeling.  You want to go home!
4. Next, feel your breathing and heart beat. This is your focus point.
5. After 2-3 weeks of consistent practice everynight...the following will happen..your weakest link (arm, foot, legs, torso, or head) will begin to separate.  It feels fuzzy, separates slowly, and will extend up as far as the limb would if you were consciously raising it (i.e., it doesn't stretch!!).  Slowly your other body parts will slip away from the physical.  The more relaxed you've become, the faster the separation.  You'll then be hovering above the bed. Sometimes you'll be able to see (with astral sight) sometimes not.  When you are able to see, the room will be in real time.  The stuff in the room will have a fuzzy cloud around it. Shortly after separating, I get a tingling sensation in my astral body and it makes my physical body "aroused" which then pulls me back into it.  But the process works.  One time I felt my torso lifting up and I said (mentally) 'help me up'...and two hands grabed my right arm and two other hands grabed my left are and in unison, lifted my out of the physical...truly cool!

We separate everynight we're in deep sleep.  We couldn't stop it if we wanted to. The conscious goes to work in the physical, but wants to go home at night! We need to consciously tag along.  So, if the consciousness is going when were asleep, my plan is to mimic sleep as closely as possible, as see what happens.  So far, it works...but it takes a lot of effort.
Assuming you go to bed around 10PM, it might also help to drink a cup of coffee around 6:00 pm (3-4 hrs before sleep) to help you stay awake.  

Good luck
 

quote:Originally posted by flake

myself, and I believe most other projectors always seem to have their projections in the astral. Their aswell as my experiences are always subjective and dreamlike. Personally I have had probably houndreads of OBEs and LDs by now but not a single OBE that have been in the realtimezone. I have have tried to go realtime but I never succeed, my question is how does one succeed in this???

In robert bruce's astral dynamics he speaks often of the realtimezone and the astral, but never gives any advice on how to project specifically to the realtimezone.

[flake]

saints you don´t have to talk to me as if I never had had an OBE, I know what it feels like. I do not believe the fact that I always see in real-time at the moment when I leave my body even though people want to believe that. In my experience my room is always looking different than reality when I leave my body. I´ll have to look at franks posts now...

[Saints]

Well, lets see..(BTW....i'm not trying to argue!)
Re-read your original post...it appears you are having lucid dreams - not conscious obes.  Your room should look fuzzy..all the time when consciously leaving (in real time) the physical.  Because it doesn't, maybe you have been experiencing something other than a conscious exited obe.  Once you really have an conciousness obe, there is no uncertanity. You lift out and see the room you are in.  There is no mistake.  Its like getting up from bed! You know its real time. If you haven't experienced real time....maybe you are confused!  The minute-hand on the clock should be turning..the cars should be moving up the street, and the people should be waking & talking....all in real time.  You check this by quickly re-entering the physical and verifying something you saw.  If it verifies...then that's a conscious exit.  Stand in front of a moving car...feel it move through you.  Everything else(as RB would write)leaves a feeling of uncertanity (i.e., was it a dream or halluncination) and doubt. I know what a conscious exit obe is, my formula works. If you leave the body during sleep, you can never know whether the room you're seeing is being influenced by your unconscious mind or if the room is the astral counterpart, or a combination.  Real obe'ers don't include sleep in their conversation.  Try my formula...it'll remove your fears and doubts..it'll clease you feelings of uncertanity.  

Good luck!

quote:Originally posted by flake

saints you don´t have to talk to me as if I never had had an OBE, I know what it feels like. I do not believe the fact that I always see in real-time at the moment when I leave my body even though people want to believe that. In my experience my room is always looking different than reality when I leave my body. I´ll have to look at franks posts now...

[Zarklon]

Saint , I'll make this short because im about to sleeeeeep but I believe differently about the whole concious exit vision being blurry.  Mine sure isnt and one night when I Did verify something to be true my vision was crystal clear so that might not apply to everyone.  

When you said you can "never" tell if your room is real or not from a dream projection.. well.. thats another thing that would limit you.  I believe that each one of us has our own way to become more aware on the astral plane.. and it could possibly bring us back to the real-time reality-fluctuation-less zone.  The way you are coming across is that if you dont have a concious OBE (not one from a dream) then youll never be able to prove your experiences? I'm not sure but thats the message I got. Lemmi know if I'm wrong though.

Im off to bed =;/ Night.

[Irreal]

quote:There is no mistake. Its like getting up from bed! You know its real time. If you haven't experienced real time....maybe you are confused! The minute-hand on the clock should be turning..the cars should be moving up the street, and the people should be waking & talking....all in real time. You check this by quickly re-entering the physical and verifying something you saw. If it verifies...then that's a conscious exit. Stand in front of a moving

Saints, seriously! Does the lucid-tricks work inside this so called 'real' projection? Like.. does the digital watch says anything sensable? Can you read texts, look away, and then see exactly the same text without morphings?

That sounds somewhat too impressive to be true[B)] But really, what do you say?

[cube]

It's true that once you get up it's easy to know that you're in the realtime zone, but the thing is that if you're just laying there in bed after 'waking' it's not easy to tell if you've projected unless you've done it before and know what it feels like.

[Saints]

Once you slide out, the furniture, etc have a fuzzy appearance, like an aura - thats what I'm saying. Re:LD transitioning to real-time awareness..I've done it a few times as 9-10 year old kid...but the platform was from a sleep state.  As an adult, I separate wide awake.  I actully can lay in bed, relax and feel my body slide out of the physical. There is no sleep to confuse the experience.  If asleep, the subconscious (being very potent)will create intereperations for the sensations associated with separation.  As far as proving the experience...until you consciously separate...and then compare it to a lucid dream-upgrade approach...how will you really know how much influence the dream had on the experience?  I've done them both and I can tell you that its like night and day. Regarding the astral..we're on the astral even when we drive our car. The astral is stratified (light to dark...subtle to dense, etc). We're on the lower lower level of the astral. This is why I'm saying that unless you're wide awake when you separate, you not in real time. You've floated to a differnt point along the bandwidth.  You have to be fully aware of the separation to remove any uncertanity of the unconscious mind influencing your observations.  

Side note: I was in a seminar with Dr. Waldo Vera (see IIPC now under a new name)and watched him stand in front of an audiance and slip out of the physical, move across the room then touch a man's face, who was sitting in the audiance. The guy leaned backwards, as if avoiding a slap to his face and had a shocked reaction.  (Note: I wrote Stand infront, because that's what he did...he literally walked to the corner of the conference room placed his left had against the wall, leaned forward a few degrees, and relaxed.  Within 1 minute, his body shuddred a little, then it calmed down...and he exited.  Very cool..very smooth...My Hero!!!

This is my goal.  With practice, we can all do it like that with no ambiguity of the sleep state influencing our observations. This other stuff about wakeing up from a dream..is nice..but, its not the same.

quote:Originally posted by Zarklon

Saint , I'll make this short because im about to sleeeeeep but I believe differently about the whole concious exit vision being blurry.  Mine sure isnt and one night when I Did verify something to be true my vision was crystal clear so that might not apply to everyone.  

When you said you can "never" tell if your room is real or not from a dream projection.. well.. thats another thing that would limit you.  I believe that each one of us has our own way to become more aware on the astral plane.. and it could possibly bring us back to the real-time reality-fluctuation-less zone.  The way you are coming across is that if you dont have a concious OBE (not one from a dream) then youll never be able to prove your experiences? I'm not sure but thats the message I got. Lemmi know if I'm wrong though.

Im off to bed =;/ Night.

[Saints]

The thing I'm writing about isn't about tricks. Yes the clock turns, the digital display progresses to the next number..the headlines say the same thing when focusing on other things. See above note

quote:Originally posted by Irreal

quote:There is no mistake. Its like getting up from bed! You know its real time. If you haven't experienced real time....maybe you are confused! The minute-hand on the clock should be turning..the cars should be moving up the street, and the people should be waking & talking....all in real time. You check this by quickly re-entering the physical and verifying something you saw. If it verifies...then that's a conscious exit. Stand in front of a moving

Saints, seriously! Does the lucid-tricks work inside this so called 'real' projection? Like.. does the digital watch says anything sensable? Can you read texts, look away, and then see exactly the same text without morphings?

That sounds somewhat too impressive to be true[B)] But really, what do you say?

[Saints]

I agree, you need to experience it before you can know. How many posts have your read where the person is stating they had an AP and begin explaining it by describing some sort of experience..airplane blowng up, activities from the family, work expreiences, sex, etc. stuff that is not happening in their bedroom.  I think its their unconscious (90-95%) mind constructing the experience in response to the sensations associated with their literal and unconscious separation.  The mind is reacting to each stimuli with a plausable explanation. The writers think its an AP - and in a way it is...but its unfullfilling because of the absence of control and the possibility that its an hallucination. They usually don't include an explanation for the separation process.  They are just there.  What I'm saying is that the separation is seamless.  It a smooth transistion and its really cool to experience. Its like you've been swimming in the pool with multiple layers of clothes on for hours, then you strip down to nothing and get out and walk around naked in the air.  Its marvelous. The resistance is gone!  

BTW: What's your view on these thoughts: 1) That all objects are a form of consciousness. The piano, tree, car....eveything....has a consciousness - its a consciousness of a bush, pencil, radio, etc.  2) All things happen metaphysically before they happen physically (stratification process). The archtypical forms existed prior to their manifestation by human effort. 3) That we (as a collective consciousness) have agreed that a tree would look like a tree, a bus would look like a bus, etc. That we agreed that we, through a unified effort, would hold the objects' astral structure together as a piano or tuba, or guitar as an intended agreement. The astral matter making up the couch, or coffee cup is very dense but its that way because we collectivelly willed it to reduce in density, form and be.  We decided what form the object would take and we willed it so. We designed the universe by our thougths.  4) That the only reason this dense aspect of the astral(earth) exits is to have an enviroment to make our conscious lucid (aware of the Beginning)because g_d wants to be revealed?

quote:Originally posted by cube

It's true that once you get up it's easy to know that you're in the realtime zone, but the thing is that if you're just laying there in bed after 'waking' it's not easy to tell if you've projected unless you've done it before and know what it feels like.

[cube]

Hi Saints,

quote:
1) That all objects are a form of consciousness. The piano, tree, car....eveything....has a consciousness - its a consciousness of a bush, pencil, radio, etc.

2) All things happen metaphysically before they happen physically (stratification process). The archtypical forms existed prior to their manifestation by human effort.

These are both things that are in my 'probable' bin but I don't yet have the experience to really put much conviction behind them. However I do think that these actually are answerable questions now that we know how to project.

quote:
3) That we (as a collective consciousness) have agreed that a tree would look like a tree, a bus would look like a bus, etc. That we agreed that we, through a unified effort, would hold the objects' astral structure together as a piano or tuba, or guitar as an intended agreement. The astral matter making up the couch, or coffee cup is very dense but its that way because we collectivelly willed it to reduce in density, form and be. We decided what form the object would take and we willed it so. We designed the universe by our thougths.

Yes, that sounds accurate but I have a feeling that certain individuals have had disproportionately more effect on certain aspects than others.

quote:
4) That the only reason this dense aspect of the astral(earth) exits is to have an enviroment to make our conscious lucid (aware of the Beginning)because g_d wants to be revealed?

That's similar to my view. I think that the intellect requires a contrast to be able to understand anything, and the only way to really appreciate the infinite is to have gone through the wringer so-to-speak in the finite physical plane.

[cube]

Saints, I did a search for Dr. Waldo Vera and google comes up empty, do you have any links on this guy?

[Saints]

Yes...you can find him at http://www.iipc.org/.  He has an amazing worldwide org.  Very cool educators. I took classes from Nancy and Wager, Louis and Dr. V.  Interesting story...Nancy met Wagner as students of Dr. V. in Brazil (he's Portaguese).  They were APers and took his classes for personal advancement.  They fell in love and got married.  Nancy got pregnant.  Wager told the class that one day, while he was obeing, he saw a light and it was the consciousness that was going to descend into the baby after it was born. It was in the bedroom near Nancy. As the pregancy evolved the consciousness and Wagner became more friendly and Wagner said he, and the consciousess, would have a real good understanding of-each-other after the birth occured.  As the 3rd trimester concluded, the consciouness got closer to the fetus but didn't enter it until several days after the birth. This, according to Wagner is typical. The consciousness does not decend into the fetus. It enters when it knows the fetus is approprite to fulfill the plan the consciousness has for this incarnation. It was the first time I ever heard of such a thing....but it was a great lead into that evening's subjct on reincarnation.  As you will see, Dr. V has his own vocabulary as does B.Monroe, Buhlman, and Bruce.  He uses soma for body, thosenes as a construct word for thoughts-sentiments-and emotions.  Its a very cool program and his diary on his obe's is a facinating read.  He actually interacted with with a higher being that was so advanced that he (after 30 years of obeing) was reduced to tears after returning to the physical.  Personally, I really want to get closer to the Source.  I know this obe knowledge will help.

quote:Originally posted by cube

Saints, I did a search for Dr. Waldo Vera and google comes up empty, do you have any links on this guy?

[Irreal]

quote:The thing I'm writing about isn't about tricks. Yes the clock turns, the digital display progresses to the next number..the headlines say the same thing when focusing on other things. See above note

I'm ever so sorry for adressing you in this childish manner! Please, accept my apoligies. It's just that I'm impressed, really impressed.

What I meant by 'tricks' was the notion that while lucid 'dreaming' some things just don't work(or seldom), like clocks, stable texts. You know about that I think.. have a nice day.

[flake]

well, it seems as if though saints was a guy that everybody had the wrong idea about in this topic...

[Saints]

Actually, it never occurred to me that you were joking around. If your intent was sarcasm, it didn't register.  No apologies needed.

Re this flakie topic, I have attended lectures from William Buhlman a couple times through the Learning Annex.  He is from Michigan. He is able to upgrade to full-consciousness obe from a dream.  I was only successful doing this as a kid.  His tapes, books and class notes didn't work for me.  Although he is an impressive speaker and has a excellent grasp of the physics.  Fortunately, I'm currently living in LA and have a lot of access to metaphysical organizations and I take full-advantage of them by attending lectures and workshops and spiritual programs.  A few years ago while vacationing on the Big Island in Hawaii, I was able to upgrade a lucid dream into an obe.  Check Stephen LeBerge's Lucidity Institute (PS: his masks didn't work for me) using the Big Island as a retreat site.  My upgraded dream is a great story but it underscores my point that the unconscious mind doesn't know fact from fiction and will try to make sense of any stimuli it feels.  This is why I think the conscious exit is the gold standard and to grail we should be striving for.

quote:Originally posted by Irreal

quote:The thing I'm writing about isn't about tricks. Yes the clock turns, the digital display progresses to the next number..the headlines say the same thing when focusing on other things. See above note

I'm ever so sorry for adressing you in this childish manner! Please, accept my apoligies. It's just that I'm impressed, really impressed.

What I meant by 'tricks' was the notion that while lucid 'dreaming' some things just don't work(or seldom), like clocks, stable texts. You know about that I think.. have a nice day.

[Irreal]

my intention was 100% serious, just n00b. That's what I mean. Sorry, just forget it

[Saints]

Hmmmm, I must of missed that discussion.  What ideas were discussed?

quote:Originally posted by flake

well, it seems as if though saints was a guy that everybody had the wrong idea about in this topic...

[flake]

myself, and I believe most other projectors always seem to have their projections in the astral. Their aswell as my experiences are always subjective and dreamlike. Personally I have had probably houndreads of OBEs and LDs by now but not a single OBE that have been in the realtimezone. I have have tried to go realtime but I never succeed, my question is how does one succeed in this???

In robert bruce's astral dynamics he speaks often of the realtimezone and the astral, but never gives any advice on how to project specifically to the realtimezone.