Messages

[e]

Is this a metaphysics forum or an english grammar and spelling forum?

 Just kidding James.... hee hee.

I agree with Spectraldragon....rooms are great for meditation, but being outside is just as good, if not better. Obviously, its important to find a place where you won't be disturbed by people / loud random noises / etc. So, the back garden is a good place to begin, if you have one. There will always be background noise, but try to enjoy it instead of being distracted by it. You'll find it soon fades away.

Also, practising at dawn and dusk means you have less chance of being distracted. On the flip side of the coin, dawn & dusk practise means you need a much higher level of resolve. Which can end up being a good thing !

Mark

Make note to self :do not have kids and wife

IMHO Lucid Dreams are Astral Projections.

Agreed ! But I have noticed that even during a lucid dream, I will carry on pursuing the most bizzare set of circumstances. For example, 3 or 4 nights ago I woke up & realised "hang on, I'm dreaming", yet I continued to float high in the air of a chapel, bouncing between the wooden beams, chasing after some kind of insect(? can't really remember). At the time, I knew I was dreaming, & I knew I had full control, but I was still engaged in an activity that I wouldn't normally pursue under 100% waking conciousness. I "chose" to carry on with this strange dream.

I see OBE's as differing from lucid dreams, only in the level of awareness. The "astral" as such is just as real, in a dream, a day dream, or a full-blown OBE in my opinion.

I have experienced several LD to OBE instances. Each time it started with me in a dream and realizing that I am dreaming. To make it fully understood, I could at that moment in time be experiencing a dream and not just know I was asleep but could feel my body sleeping. This being to the point where I could think in my dream that it was time to roll over in bed. Then do so and continue my LD.

Hi Cainam, hows things !

I've had this happen several times. I'll roll over, then slip into the same dream. Though, this leaves a blank patch in my memory. Its almost as if my other persona has been carrying on with the dream scenario, without my knowledge !

Sorry for getting a bit off topic....
Shaman, you say "reach for that feeling of sleep..." however, I have tried this, & (for me anyway) it only ends up with me being fully awake !! Have you got any more ideas that might help me (and others) here ?
thanks and kind regards,

Mark

Hi Dae, welcome to the forum !

I'm going to throw in my 2pence worth of speculation here !  

Could it be because :
1) as we mature mentally, our focus is held more firmly on the physical world instead of the non-physical ? We slowly lose the "eyes of a child" & begin to concentrate more on adult matters.
2) we go through puberty, & a change takes place (maybe not in all individuals) that reduces our ability to have frequent OBEs ?

just a bit of guesswork from me !  Hopefully a few other members will chime in with something a bit better !!

kind regards
Mark

Hi Tom,

For me anyway, "converting" to a lucid dream is simply a case of getting more clarity, or to put that another way, increasing my level of awareness until it is on a par with that I experience during waking conciousness.

To do this, I demand to have more clarity, just as the textbooks* recommend. As strange as it sounds, stating out aloud a demand like "Clarity -NOW !" whilst in a lucid dream, can have the desired effect. It doesn't always work, but you'd be surprised how effective it can be.

Converting to an OBE in the real time zone....now, I've never done that before...

Kind regards,
Mark

* Off the top of my head, I can't remember what "textbooks" these may be....My memory is shockingly bad. Though I'm sure I've read this "clarity" command somewhere (perhaps in astral dynamics) & it certainly works.

ps - Leo volont, maybe you'll have to cut & paste your excellent reply into the new sticky, it would be a bit of a waste to let it drop down the pack !
cheers

Mark

Hi Tombodenmann, If you can start another topic along those lines (can't really make "@mods" a sticky!!) & also expand a bit more on converting lucid dreams to projections, then I'll fix it at the top, next time I'm logged in,

kind regards,
Mark

[function of your willingness to believe]

A few questions though: Is the process of building up energy analogous to going to the gym and working out? The more I work those energy "muscles" the more energy I can handle? Or does the success of energy work depend on other factors? (i.e. diet, physical exercise, social life, prayer, sunlight, positive thinking, etc?).

It is very much analogous to going to the gym, IMO. As you work through RB's exercises, you will find they become easier over time, just as swimming becomes less effort with practise.

The success of energy work depends on PRACTISE, not just reading about it ! Obvious statement, I know, but one to consider. If I spent 20 mins practising, for every 5 mins I'm on the internet, I would progress so much faster !!! However, I don't have that luxury at the moment.

Not only does success depend on practise, but a moderate, healthy, stress-free outlook towards life is very helpful, too.

Going back to your original post,  the ability to OBE is a function of your willingness to believe, IMO. This means that the slightest doubt of your own capability will hold you back. There will be times when you will e.g. lie down to bed, "knowing" that later on, you will have an OBE. Lo and behold, a few hours later you will find yourself "out of body".

There is no "trick" in having an OBE - it seems to be something that anyone can do. However, the problem arises when we try and replicate our OBEs at will.

As an example, if I wanted to learn how to play guitar, I would go to guitar lessons. A teacher would show me how to play chords & scales. I might even learn to read music. Alternatively, I could learn from a book, that shows me where to place my fingers & where to pick the strings, in what order, to acheive the desired sound. Unfortunately, learning OBE is not as simple - there are no formulae, recipes, no tablatured books. Instead we learn by a mixture of a) trial and error, and b) interpreting the experiences and lessons of successful OBE-ers, who have the hard work of putting their experience into a language we can understand !!

This dream was short & vivid. It shows how noticing illogical scenarios within dreams can quickly create that "hang on a minute - I'm dreaming" reaction.

I recall being outside some buildings in the early evening. I stood in the shadows, knowing that around the corner sat a group of middle aged men. They were sitting in either a garage, or a small warehouse, discussing something.

I held in my hand a gun. From my position of cover, I began shooting the men, one by one. They were probably only sitting 15 yards from me. After firing each shot, a man would tumble to the ground. The others would look around, then continue their discussions.  I probably shot 3 men before realising that the gun chamber was empty; there were two remaining.

A strange thing then occurred. "Why don't you use this one," said one of the two men, a grey haired, slightly older looking guy. He was facing me now, holding a bullet in his fingertips; I approached, stepping between the bodies of the people I had just shot dead, took the bullet & retreated to my vantage point. The two men continued their discussions as I re-loaded.

I took aim at the other man, pulled the trigger, & missed his head. The bullet ricocheted off the wall behind him....He turned around and looked outraged. Sitting next to him, the grey haired man who had given me the extra bullet was surprised and worried.

Sensing danger, I turned and ran. My intended target was quick to his feet. He began firing on me when I was maybe 50yards or so from the scene. I ran through busy traffic, using the moving cars as shields. I can't recall ever running so fast in a dream!

For some unknown reason, I was wearing a police radio. As I ran through the streets, past countless streetlights & cars, I heard their calls.....sightings of me running down such&such a street....past a bridge...etc, etc. Soon, I was blending into the night and the streets, confident I wouldn't be found. Walking underneath a bridge at night, catching my breath with a gun in my hand, I was positive that I was in the middle of a bizarre dream !!

Kind regards,
Mark

Nice thread !

For me, there are two ways it'll happen. The first is when I become lucid during a dream. I'll notice that there is something "not quite right" with my environment, & my awareness is raised. I sense the possibility of making my whole experience clearer, & I try to take this opportunity.

Perhaps I could compare this sensation, to the feeling you get when you are day-dreaming & then you suddenly realise where you are, e.g. sitting in your office, in a classroom, etc. That transition pretty much describes it.

The second way I project, although much less common, is by conciously willing the projection. On these instances, the feeling is very much one of "travelling without moving". I begin, knowing that I am lying on my bed with my eyes shut. As I progress (if all goes according to plan), I no longer feel myself in my bed. As I progress further, I sense that I am able to "tune in" to an astral location. If I relax my mind, but stay focussed at the same time, I can move into an astral realm.

I've found that most of my returns to physical conciousness are involuntary.

Robert Bruce, amongst others, recommends that beginners should keep their projections short, & quickly seek re-entry to the body, in order to increase the likelihood of recalling the experience.  I have tried doing this, but I must admit the temptation to stay out is often too great !

I agree with MajorTom's comments on muscle spasms. I believe that these muscle spasms are also caused by trapped nerves in the lower back area...In my recent experience working in an office, sitting at a desk for around 7 hours a day, I've found the frequency of these spasms during OBE practise increased considerably. There's an easy way to avoid these type of spasms though - make sure you stretch out the muscles of your lower back properly before practise. Try using the same basic stretches that chiropractors use to loosen the tight muscles in the back. It worked for me !

Kind regards,
Mark

[cannot]

hi xetrov !

Interesting article, & welcome to the astralpulse !

I also disagree with your conclusion that there is a "real" class of OBE as opposed to a fake group experienced as lucid-dreams. There is simply no evidence to suggest that this is the case.

Van Lommel gives a good example from his studies; "she was put on the heart-lung machine, with VF, with all blood drained from her head, with a flat line EEG, with clicking devices in both ears, with eyes taped shut, and this patient experienced an NDE with an out-of-body experience, and all details she perceived and heard could later be verified."

While this one example may be true, you have conveniently left out the hundreds, possibly thousands of cases where patients have NDEs but cannot accurately describe their e.g. hospital bed, surroundings.

Thus, we cannot conclude that there exists a "true" astral realm that is "probably as solid as our physical world".

Although I disagree with your conclusions, I enjoyed reading your article. For science to accept non-physical reality, we need an agreed terminology & a way to measure such phenomena. Clearly, we have some way to go !!

Perhaps the astralpulse should set about re-defining the OBE experience, as the sheer quantity of terminology is mind-boggling & often apparently contradictory. To do this, we would need to break down the experience into components & come to a broad agreement on the process that takes place.

These are the issues that I see constantly plaguing our consensus understanding of the OBE :

1) NDE - OBE - Lucid dream - Dream
2) Astral projection - realtime projection
3) The "reality" or "validity" of the experience
4) The existence of a "true" astral world containing "fake" mind-generated objects.
5) "Leaving" the physical body.
6) the non-physical realms as a product of the physical realms, & vice-versa.
7) The classification of the astral into focus levels.
8 ) The Akashic records, often perceived as a giant database of information.

I believe that we can reach consensus on these issues by examining the evidence (our experiences & those of others). I feel we need to get our house in order before science takes us seriously.

Kind regards,
Mark

These films aren't specifically about OBE's, but the subject nature is definitely related.....

the 13th Floor
Vanilla sky
The Cell
The Matrix
Final Fantasy : Spirits within
Jacob's ladder
The sixth Sense

Understanding Engineers - Take One
Two engineering students crossing the campus when one said, "Where did
you get such a great bike?"
The second engineer replied, "Well, I was walking along yesterday
minding my own business when a beautiful woman rode up on this bike.
She threw the bike to the ground, took off all her clothes and said,
"Take what you want."
The first engineer nodded approvingly, "Good choice; the clothes
probably wouldn't have fit."


Understanding Engineers - Take Two
To the optimist, the glass is half full.
To the pessimist, the glass is half empty.
To the engineer, the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.


Understanding Engineers - Take Three
A pastor, a doctor and an engineer were waiting one morning for a
particularly slow group of golfers.
The engineer fumed, "What's with these guys? We must have been waiting
for 15 minutes!"
The doctor chimed in, "I don't know, but I've never seen such ineptitude!"
The pastor said, "Hey, here comes the greens keeper. Let's have a word
with him."
"Hi George! Say, what's with that group ahead of us? They're rather
slow, aren't they?"
The greens keeper replied, "Oh, yes, that's a group of blind
fire-fighters. They lost their sight saving our clubhouse from a fire
last year, so we always let them play for free anytime."
The group was silent for a moment.
The pastor said, "That's so sad. I think I will say a special prayer
for them tonight."
The doctor said, "Good idea. And I'm going to contact my
ophthalmologist buddy and see if there's anything he can do for them."
The engineer said, "Why can't these guys play at night?"


Understanding Engineers - Take Four
What is the difference between Mechanical Engineers and Civil Engineers?
Mechanical Engineers build weapons and Civil Engineers build targets.


Understanding Engineers - Take Five
The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"


Understanding Engineers - Take Six
Three engineering students were gathered together discussing the
possible designers of the human body.
One said, "It was a mechanical engineer." Just look at all the joints."
Another said, "No, it was an electrical engineer. The nervous system
has many thousands of electrical connections."
The last one said, "Actually it was a civil engineer. Who else would
run a toxic waste pipeline through a recreational area?"


Understanding Engineers - Take Seven
"Normal people believe that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Engineers believe that if it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet"


Understanding Engineers - Take Eight
An architect, an artist and an engineer were discussing whether it was
better to spend time with the wife or a mistress.
The architect said he enjoyed time with his wife, building a solid
foundation for an enduring relationship.
The artist said he enjoyed time with his mistress, because the passion
and mystery he found there.
The engineer said, "I like both."
"Both?"
"Yeah. If you have a wife and a mistress, they will each assume you
are spending time with the other woman, and you can go to the lab and
get some work done."


Understanding Engineers - Take Nine
An engineer was crossing a road one-day when a frog called out to him
and said, "If you kiss me, I'll turn into a beautiful princess."
He bent over, picked up the frog and put it in his pocket.
The frog spoke up again and said, "If you kiss me and turn me back
into a beautiful princess, I will stay with you for one week."
The engineer took the frog out of his pocket, smiled at it and
returned it to the pocket.
The frog then cried out, "If you kiss me and turn me back into a
princess, I'll stay with you and do ANYTHING you want."
Again the engineer took the frog out, smiled at it and put it back
into his pocket.
Finally, the frog asked, "What is the matter? I've told you I'm a
beautiful princess, and that I'll stay with you for a week and do
anything you want. Why won't you kiss me?"
The engineer said, "Look, I'm an engineer. I don't have time for a
girlfriend, but a talking frog, now that's cool."

controversial !!!

Before people start believing that article they should read this one too !
http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/insider.htm

 Don't be put off though, Hadeka !!

Kind regards,
Mark

Hi there Hadeka,

Hope you don't mind me moving this post to Astral chat....

I was going to reply to this post earlier today. I considered talking about particle physics, stephen hawking, etc. (not that I'm really that knowledgeable about physics or Hawking !!).

I tried constructing a decent reply to your post, in my head. But nothing came, so I clicked on "cancel".

A few minutes ago, I was browsing through another forum on stock-trading, when I came across the following fantastic article which will be far more interesting to you than my wafflings about physics !!! Note this quote in particular :

Yet the SEC source admits, "No one can find any record of any Andrew Carlssin existing anywhere before December 2002."

http://tv.yahoo.com/news/wwn/20030319/104808600007.html

BTW- If you are really interested in Time, Space, etc. try reading a book called "hyperspace" by theoretical physicist Dr. Michio Kaku.

Hi there Wantsumrice,

My Grandfather had a stroke last year & his memory / personality has changed with it. It is hard to accept these things that just happen.

Anyway, FWIW, your great-grandmother is in my thoughts,
kind regards,

Mark

Well, I believe that whilst Kerry has certainly told a few fibs in his time, they pale in comparison to Bush's stance on Iraq & weapons of mass destruction.

The biggest lie that the public have been fed in current times, yet no-one seems to mind. (because it affects innocent Iraqis, not innocent US / UK citizens.)

One thing that I find curious. In USA, UK and Australia there was public outrage at our actions in Iraq. We acted against the wishes of the UN. Our governments lied to us. Yet, who remains in power ? Blair, Bush & John Howard.

Obviously, we weren't really that bothered by our unlawful actions in Iraq.

Hi Stephen ! I'm afraid I don't believe that all these "toxins" are as harmful as some people make out... I respect Tina Andersen, BSc Psychology, Naturopathic Consultant....but to be honest I don't respect the qualifications after her name !    (hope she isn't reading this...)

My rant begins....

fluoride, lead, aluminium, nitrates, traces of radioactive iodine, steroids, oral contraceptives and antibiotics (found in the tap water).

Ok, the drugs may be missing - but all the other chemicals are found in "natural" water too......Bottled water is a great way to make profit, as long as the public believe it is healthy. One inkling that it isn't, & they'll hot-foot it out of that bottled water store in seconds (coca cola's launch of Dasani in the UK springs to mind here...what a disaster. Yet, it contained far less of these awful chemicals than most other bottled waters....the fickle public, eh?!)

Don't forget the lathering of the body with formaldehyde and phenol of course.

I'm glad I don't use the same products as Tina, that's all I can say. Otherwise I would have cancer within 3 months & my skin would be transparent !

to buy your breakfast - the healthy option from Mc D. Well it does contain eggs... somewhere, however, they have been fried with hydrogenated fats causing a good deal of free radical damage in the body!

I'm afraid this part gets my goat over all the others. Yes, I worked in the golden arches, 10 years ago, part time during school holidays. The eggs are fresh eggs scrambled or poached on a clean grill. The cheese is cheddar cheese, the muffins are ...muffins (?) & the bacon is ...well, ok, its only recently they have started using real bacon.

The widespread contempt for McDonalds & other large corporations is IMO simply a consequence of their success. Good or bad, large corporations have to deal with the public's David & Goliath complex every day....Bill Gates charitable donations spring to mind here. The poor guy can't do anything right !

This sandwich, however, contains a lot more than you bargained for including bleach in the bread and Organochlorine insecticides, Anticholinesterase insecticides, Pyrethroid insecticides, and Polychlorinated Biphenyls in the meat and dairy.

Slightly biased in my opinion.... baffle me with a few names of the chemical compounds found in a green salad leaf, & couch it in negative terms, then we'll call it quits !

the fact that CFC's are being produced is hardly noticeable although you do feel quite drained towards the end of the day you blame that on the milk that looked a bit off.

Not so noticeable, is the fact that "global warming" and patterns of the earth's climactic change have only been measured accurately for the last 30 years or so. You don't have to have a Phd in Stats to realise that this is a very small sample size. A prominent voice against the hypotheses of global warming &  the greenhouse effect ? David Bellamy. (one for the Brits).

or is it just that addictive substance called Mono sodium glutamate that keeps you going back for more?

Tina's scraping the bottom of the barrel & making things up now....

I would continue, but I'm being kicked out of my girlfriend's brother's room now....so please consider my rant over ! Now, I'm just going to have a shower in my contaminated tap water, cover myself in deadly chemicals then go to sleep.... I hope my internal organs can cope with the salad & pie that I had for dinner whilst I'm dreaming, I want to live till I'm 30 !!!


Kind regards,
Mark

Hi Spectraldragon, great post ! I hope you don't mind me moving it into "OBE discussions".

Kind regards,
Mark

Good to see you again Jeff !!

Hope that the birth goes smoothly for you & your wife, I'm sure it will. I've got a few friends now who are getting into this "making-kids" business....they seem to be popping out (not literally) left, right & centre. I guess that 29-30 is "the age" to do it. !

Anyway, see you around the forums mate.


Mark

This dream wasn't really too eventful, but it was so vivid & enjoyable at the time, I thought I'd recount it here.

Having left some friends, I found myself in a country park. At this point my dream became quite lucid. Walking through this park, with the sun shining, I noticed a nearby picnic table. Underneath it was a fox, I thought. On closer examination I realised it was too big to be a fox. Its body was elongated & muscular, covered with short fur like a lioness'. Its mouth was fox-like, but the jaws were longer. Its teeth were large. The rich brown colours on the animal's head contrasted with the tanned, golden colour of its torso.

As it lay under the bench, it was giving me friendly vibes (!). I approached and held out my hand/ fist, lowered, so that it could see I posed no threat. It nodded a couple of times and allowed me to come closer. So I knelt alongside the animal which must have been 6 or 7feet long, & stroked its back.

I immediately sensed that something was wrong, so I began to back away slowly. It bared its teeth, & I noticed that all 4 fangs were worn down to stumps. I instantly realised, that this had been done on purpose to the animal, to prevent it from hurting people. I realised that the animal was an "ornament" of sorts belonging to this park, much in the same way that peacocks are used as ornaments on earth.

Backing away more quickly now, I found that the only way to escape was to climb a vertical black rock face. It was an easy climb, & after 5 minutes I was 30metres up. I could see the animal staring up at me, from below. I sensed that it had chosen not to bother following me. My way on up the rock face was now too difficult as a large overhang lay above me. However just a few feet away was a cave. Sunlight shone from the back of the cave, & I saw that a pathway had been cut from the cave, through to the back of the cliff. Unfortunately it was padlocked shut, so after a few moments I began the descent back down the rock face & woke up.

Not very eventful, but enjoyable nonetheless!

Mark

Same here, Frank. Back at university we were always keen to hear what he'd pull out of the bag next.

(in scouse accent) "This one's a 10" release, pressed on clear vinyl. Hope you enjoy it."


http://www.nme.com/features/110323.htm

Hi there Lin, interesting post & welcome to the forum !

Is there a way to reverse it ? Well, I'll state the obvious first : Try an "affirmation" asking NOT to be protected. This may succeed, as I believe that during the act of asking for protection, part of your mind realised "hang on a minute, this OBE business is dangerous". This "fear" that you have created is possibly what is holding you back.

Give it a try. However it is also possible that this "reverse affirmation" will not have the desired effect...it may actually re-inforce your fear by making you believe you will become vulnerable to all manner of beings !!

The crux of the issue, I believe, is getting rid of a "fear", however small it may be, that you created when you began using that affirmation.

Hopefully a few other members will have some suggestions too !!

kind regards
Mark