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I actually had a fear of meeting demons and stuff like that guess it was just the unknown i was fearing

Of course, I don't even know why I asked. Same with me and I actually get angry that we've been conditioned to have these silly fears in the first place.

What I am saying is try not to take on board one person's 'user interface' or you will be constantly chasing somebody else's tail.

I'm so glad I did very little research on all this. Don't get me wrong, I'm very much chasing metaphors all over the place now but I have the personal experience to either relate to something or reject it for now.

I've never felt phantom limbs and the only times I was ever aware of being in anything than just what felt like my own body was during the first spontaneous OOBE's I had that scared the crap out of me.

There are a lot of terms and ideas that are relevant to my own and I'm trying to see how they fit into what I know to be true from my own experiences. Some make so much sense that even though they don't match completely to my own, the differences are just subjective and i adopt them.

I just don't have it in me to come up with my own Big TOE but I'm not looking to be hoodwinked again either.

I don't imagine that I'll ever be into chakras or any other theological ideas. Other than a few terms that I always use generically like karma, spirituality, or the astral. It's just easier to use them sometimes but I never have any real ideology behind them.

What do you think this 'energy' is? and what would a 'negative entity' need it for? What does it do with it?

What is 3D?

Questions questions.  Sorry... I just want to know your interpretation.

I think there is something to this energy business but it's not what we consider energy.

I don't really know how to say it. But it's like not wanting to deal with something during an OOBE, some people envision themselves forcing pure love or something like that. I just see it as not giving it the attention it wants.

It's isn't that they are taking energy so much as they are wasting our potential if too much attention is given to it. Does that make sense?

Think about what it took to create the light sabre. It may not have been actual energy but it took something to materialize the light sabre. Intent isn't a satisfying answer because what is the power behind the intent?

It's even more weird for me that you find that weird. 

It's like me saying to you "It's pretty weird you thinking a unicorn horn spiral is anti-clockwise"

Wait a minute, I thought this was only true for Unicorns north of the Equator.

well it worked for me to overcome my fear of astral projection 
Doubt it would harm the plant 

If you don't mind saying, I would like to know what your fear of projecting was.

I too had a great fear initially but it was something I had to do.

The only way I see a plant helping to get rid of my fears is if the plant is the root of my fear.

But you could just spare the poor plant and throw the paper away. It's the belief that this will work that makes it work.

Sorry, don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you. These ideas do help some but it would be best if they just analyzed the fear.

I think some people give the entities that we encounter during OOBE's more credit, good or bad, then they are actually due. Mostly because it's usually awe inspiring and humbling to be so little and yet be a very integral part of the larger picture. Many don't get to ever feel as good in the physical as they do in the NPR. Myself included but I must not like to scare myself as much as some do.

Even though I know better, I always instantly judge a dream as being worthy of remembering it or just let it go. I think I'm just too lazy to get up and write them all down. I do actually remember most of the good ones but the problem is that I only think I do.

Lion-I felt great the first time when I thought I actually did something until I heard the car start back up. Now it's more of a feeling of just relief. But I know it's just a matter of building my confidence.

It wasn't that long ago that I was pestering my guide about doing a retrieval and he flat out said I wasn't ready. Well, after 12 years of having OOBE's, this annoyed my ego to say the least.

I asked him what was the problem since the entities have been stuck there forever anyways and there's no harm in it for me.

He explained that there was harm in it for them and told me this analogy. Imagine serving a life sentence and each time one of your appeals get's denied, you lose hope to the point that you don't even want to try and give up filing the appeals. He said a failed retrieval can make it that much harder the next time and there is a danger that they become despaired to the point of being unreachable.

I find myself inside of people's (complete strangers) homes, that are haunted and I try to explain to those people what is happening and what they can do about their situation. I am telling that that the lost soul picked them for a reason and that they had to find out why. Most of the times it was some unresolved family matter, but a couple of them were that the soul just didn't want to leave.

I'm like you and don't care much for the ghost hunter shows. But if they had one and approached it like a retrieval and actually made a difference, that would be a great watch.

We've been waiting for you.

Thanks Szaxx. This is only the second experience that I would think could be a retrieval and they leave me with more questions then answers. Your analysis is always invaluable.

The facts are you knew the ring was there.
When did you know this?

After I switched places with him and went into the car. But I panicked at the thought of being shot and phased completely back to physical. When I finally got back, he explained that they only got ten bucks from him when there was a gold ring under his seat. He said it as if the ring had no significance to him personally so I figured I could use it with the couple, hoping that they would not rob and shoot the kid since they now had something of value.

They greedily took it and I guess this allowed the kid to finally make it onto the field.

I'm just not certain that he was actually shot outside of the ball park or not. It seems as though he just couldn't get to his safe place since he brought his last memory with him.

He needed to go inside (into the light).

HA. I never saw it as him going into the light but I guess that's what actually happened since the ball park lit up. That's so cliche that it's creepy.

After a ropey start you succeeded.
The idea of giving the ring away would have been the most obvious option to your way of thinking, after swapping places and no change.
You could have done so many things with this scene.
The lad felt safe here so he wasn't going anywhere. The challenge you met and the way it was solved with no violence is so typical.

I did not know what else to do. I was upset with the kid for always being the victim. I wish I had more back story on the couple because I wonder now if that was really her ring to begin with. Kind of like she lost the ring in the car on another occasion and the kid was aware of it. If so, then he wasn't being a victim and just wanted that couple out of his little space and he knew they would leave for good. I know he is no where near any place that could be considered a heaven but at least he is not being killed over and over again.

Where in this did you realize your physical reality was elsewhere?

When I first stopped tumbling with the car in the regular dream. Before the base ball park materialized, I was in the 3-D blackness momentarily and this usually means I'm in for a surprise.


Is he gonna leave the ball park now or is this all he ever wanted?

Great news. Now I just need an address to bill you for the energy. I am an American after all and we never give any energy away for free. We start wars over this stuff.

I'm sure you know I'm kidding and will excuse my poor attempt in trying to lift your mood.

Seriously, I hope you know how good this makes us feel just knowing that she is doing better.

I don't know what creeps me out more. The fact that you were thinking of the Little Mermaid or the fact that I am now thinking of the Little Mermaid.

Anyways, it sounds like you are getting over your fear of encountering other beings since you would have to in order to have this experience. But the fear that remains, seems to be why you wanted to back out at the last second. That is natural.

What is also natural is the woman laughing afterwards, at least with me. That's about as much as we can say since there are Americans on this forum. We are comfortable with letting children simulate shooting people's heads off but not with open talk of acts of love and sex.

We Americans are strange animals in many ways.

I gained by awareness through a dream. I was watching some cars racing and thought it would be fun to actually be racing one. For a short while, the best I could manage to do was take control of one of the cars as if I was playing it in a video game. I'm not a big gamer so this wasn't very fun but I seemed locked in to this third person perspective.

This is usually the case when I gain my awareness through a dream and I always have to figure out a way to stop the dream. Maybe because I'm more in the dream state but it's never as easy as just making it happen through intent.

I had the idea to make the car tumble and as it did I tumbled with it and the dream was over when I stopped. The next thing I realized is that I was outside of a baseball field, late at night. I don't know why but I am certain that this was in the late seventies and in Detroit, Michigan. Actually the cars are what gives me the idea of the era as well as being in the Motor City.

Suddenly, a car starts in the parking lot next to the field and I am aware of a young couple arguing. The couple are drug addicts and are planning to rob somebody so they can score. The girl is the leader and wants to kill the person so that they don't get caught but the young man is unsure about the idea.

I haven't left the fence but I am just aware of their intent. A young man in his late teens comes walking up slowly and asks me what I am doing there. I said I was doing nothing and asked him why he thought it was weird for someone to be at a ball park.

He said this was not a ball park but was his home and his hell. As soon as I had asked him what he meant by that, the young girl from the car started to approach us.

The kid told me that I should leave unless I wanted to die as well. When the young girl reached us she made some flirtatious advancements towards the kid and he gave a big sigh and said "whatever, let's just get this over with." She never noticed that I was there.

They get into another car which I later learned was the kid's. The boyfriend of the girl crept up and fired two shots into the kid from the driver's side window. The girl cursed her boyfriend for getting blood on her. They rummaged through his car and left with only ten bucks.

I was never scared for my own life but it was shocking to see this happen. After the couple left, I walked up to the car slowly and I was fixated on the young man's body. When I reached it, the man disappeared and rematerialized next to me with no wounds. I asked him when did this first happen and he said "I don't know, maybe a minute ago."

I explained to him that he was no longer alive and that he didn't have to keep reliving his death. He said he had no choice because every time he tried to leave, the young girl would always come for him. I was confident that I knew what was happening and told him that this was not true that he could leave if he really wanted to.

As I was talking to him I could tell that he believed me and he wanted to know where he should go. I told him anywhere that he felt safe. He laughed and said that's why he came to the ball park. He had great memories from it as a kid. Then he faded away.

I felt great. I was sure that I had accomplished something and I walked back to the fence. Then I hear a damn car start and the same damn couple are arguing all over again. Right on cue, the young man walks up to me and this scene plays out a few more times.

I finally get the idea to become the kid and take his place in the car. That didn't work at all because I just phased out at the last second.

Disappointed in myself, I tried to phase back in. It took a few tries but I finally did. The kid finally admitted why he thought he couldn't leave.

This is quite pathetic and he was truly a victim at his core. He felt bad that they only got ten bucks from him when he had a gold ring under his front seat. Can you believe that? I was almost disgusted with this poor kid but that wasn't fair because I knew nothing of his life and why he would be this way.

I went to his car and grabbed the gold ring and waited. The kid left and the car started. I went up to the car and asked them if the ring belonged to them. They faked amazement and thanked me so much for finding the girl's ring. They left.

I watched them drive away wondering what had changed. I finally noticed that the kid had already walked past us and was inside the park. The lights came on and the field was as bright as day. I phased out as the kid walked up to home plate with a bat.

Sorry for the long explanation but I didn't know how else to say it.

I don't mind being a horse.

I'm new this whole energy talk but I would certainly hope that no one can take energy from us. Sneaky rascals.

If you feel you can talk about it then that is great.  I rather not talk about it unless I know the other person has an interest in it.  I rather keep the peace.  Unfortunately I have to not talk about it as it can cause too many problems.

Unfortunately, I am with you right now on this one. Always tell the truth but there's no need to blurt it out if it makes you uncomfortable.

But this uncomfort (wow, spell check says that not be a word) is only a product of fear and Beedeekin is lucky to not have this particular one.

I think it is great that he tells everyone he meets. He's like an Evangelical OOBEr.

When I learn how to defend my new beliefs verbally and fluently, I will too. Currently, I just get upset when I get cornered and this helps no one. Least of all, myself.

I have only heard of Christian sects doing this and it is supposedly allowing the "Holy Spirit" that lives in all of us, do the talking.

It can be disturbing and unsettling if you are not used to it, which I am not. Though I do believe that it can be likened to using a mantra to go into a trance from a meditative stance. I think it is always faked and forced in the beginning but the person does go into some sort of trance and doesn't have to fake it for long.

It is not proof of anything other than a meditative trance to me.

The best you can do is just to put it out there what your beliefs are when the subject naturally arises. Don't force it on anyone or condemn another one's beliefs. It's usually best to only answer a few questions and avoid a debate with a group of people. That's because one or two individuals may really be interested in what you have to say but they will take the popular view which is always safest and let the majority decide for them. If you wait, they will come to you on their own.

Always be honest and avoid telling exaggerated stories. The truth is already fantastic enough.

I have come a long way in dealing with many of my fears but acceptance is one of my biggest. So long as I do not give in and lie about what I believe just to feel accepted, I'm okay with that for now. The goal is to eventually not be concerned with it, though I will always care. If you know what I mean.

Funny thing is, I am continuing to tune them out, and continuing to just live my life as fully as I possibly can, and I am seeing them fade away. Well of course they briefly come back as soon as I think of them, and I am still experiencing the physical symptoms (hot flashes and "presence" or pressure on my back or right side) but I notice even those go down somewhat if I focus on other things. Also funny how you guys are all telling me the exact same thing my spirit guide told me, even "confirming" it in majour ka's story about the Buddhist monks and the woman who thought she was possessed.

Now the real question is, when will I be able to meditate again, without it bringing them all back? I guess I don't know that part.

At some point, you will need to trust your guide. Has your guide ever misled you with the intent to set you back in your spiritual growth? I say it like that because my own guide has deceived me when it was for my own good but never to lead me down a lesser path.

It seems as if you have created so much in your own personal belief system that you are now having a hard time discerning what are your own thought forms and which are objective. My advice is to you is to ask your guide what it's intentions are. You should learn everything you need to know as far as to trusting it or not. If you are ready to trust your guide ask it to allow you to view a demon as it sees them. This may end your fear of them.

All this discussion is really counter productive but I really do want you to move on past this fear of them.

Who is saying or who has stated that consciousness started in the 'astral void'? This isn't a position I have heard from anyone.

I am just wondering because maybe this is where I have personally missed the point of the apparent revelatory expression that this idea has been afforded. Why it's been a sort of damp squib in terms of its message.

The set up for the 'revelation' is relying on the supposition that we believe that NPMR is the chicken that lay the proverbial egg... am I right?

I don't know where he is getting the actual assumption from but I think it is a logical alternative to our existence origin if it isn't the astral itself. But like you asked, who has made the original assumption?

I am glad to hear the good news.

I'm sorry if this is not the appropriate time to discuss something but I feel and actually hope that it is relevant.

Since you made your original post, I have been feeling weak. Not ill, just weak. I have not done any research on how to send healing energy so I can only go by the way I feel is right.

All I have done is asked that any of my energy that I can personally afford to spare be sent to your daughter. I willed that it be as much energy that I can spare within balance and that she get it as needed.

This is not a blank check for any being but just your daughter.

I do not mind the weakness and actually welcome it. My only question is am I leaving myself vulnerable to someone other than your daughter receiving this energy?

Same rule applies when arguing that consciousness began in the Astral through The Void.  It might look that way...but is not necessarily so.

A good point indeed. It's so easy to assume that the NPR is the origin of consciousness because it seems to encompasses everything else other than the physical which itself only gives birth to deception. It is the purpose of this deception that I think you question.

If we want to continue to exist than we must evolve. The physical is one of the many ways to do this but if we entered this physical life knowing all the answers it would be too easy to not put in the hard work that it takes to grow.

This is very common. It really gets interesting when you remember the dialogue and the small details instead of just the general gist. When you have these dream recalls days and even weeks later, they often take on much more relevance than they would have if you had initially remembered them with as much detail.