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What does the brewer contribute?  

A human body in the course of it processes makes alcohol.  

Take a can of frozen concentrated OJ to a lab and have it tested.;

There will always be a small amts of alcohol in it.  Natural sugars will always be subject to change by different forms of bacteria resulting in CO2 and Alcohol.  

Natural alcohol and deliberately using marijuana are 2 different things.  Both alter the normal forms of consciousness that we experience, but there is a difference in the effects and the processes involved.  

Do you eat bread?  

BTW what is the 'house of bread'?

Maybe not the classic 'plaebo effect' but the power of suggestion... maybe.

Nonetheless, the illusion of strength is not real strength, using a calculator  to do math does not mean that you can actually DO the math.  Using a drug to imitate an experience does not mean you OWN the knowledge of the experience.  Not all people have the same experience using marijuana, but all who learn to use discipline and really study and work at what is necessary for them to  achieve a higher level of consciousness can do it.

'Eternal life' is the knowledge that you have just that.  You have it now, even if you do not have a direct perception of it.  We all do.

Principle is not limited by precedent.  Nor is it limited to a tribal interpretation or cult or religion.  Each religion was based to serve a specific group or tribe in history.  The tribes have changed, the groups of people have changed, and religions spring up and die away.  Principles do not die they are only re-interpreted.  Knowledge of eternal life surpasses the temporary and the precedents.

Aha!!   Getting caught!    We may evade the scrutiny of those in authority over us for a time, be they parents or other types of responsible persons.

We can even deceive ourselves.  We can escape into a convenient and less stressful fantasy.

We do also ingrain these episodes into our subconsciousness and eventually the dichotomy of what we seek and what we propose and what we really do catches up with us.  We catch ourselves.  We create unsolvable conundrums for ourselves.  Hence the ancient myths about LABYRINTHS and such.  We seek to find the way out of situations of our own making.  We can rationalize the effects of our conscience, with our desires to make a philosophical argument for our mistakes.  

Our Conscience is a form of a higher consciousness.  

How inventive and we all are.   How wonderful the things we can create.

Whether you call it 'karma' or 'cause and effect' or 'what goes around comes around', we each do, in effect, 'reap what we sow'.  

That being said, we can advise our friends as to what we think is a good and healthy (physically, mentally and spiritually) course of actions for life, but each of us has to work out our lives for ourselves.  If some one chooses to think or believe that marijuana is a substitute for a genuinely acheived heigthened conciousness, then they will have to learn the dead end that using marijuana for that purpose, truly is.  

Quite often we create philosophies that are convenient to our own foibles rather than taking the harder road of a philosophy that demands much of us, by constantly looking at our own ignorances and facing them.  But that requires a rather consistent sense of humbleness and a readiness to accept our own mistakes readily.  

Indeed, some substances can create a temporary glimples of levels of reality that are not of the ordinary type.  But these are not permanent or earned experiences, only shadows of what might be possible.

The concept of measuring time is one thing, the system used is another.

If you can imagine that to a creator, everything is happening at once, and  to us we measure what we percieve based on our planets revolutions about our sun. Our measurements are based on what we can percieve,only.  To a quark a shake is a long time,  to us it is millionths of a second.  We invented the concept of 'years' to measure our seasons.  
The idea of a 'year' has no meaning to an electron.  Some people have thought that the original act of the creation of the universe is still  going on.  Who can measure an infinite whole from a isolated instant?   Hmmm.

We all talk to God, mostly we do not realize it and we do not know how to listen much less understand the answers.  LOL and there are no 'trick' questions.  

Humbled,

I respect your question and the situation you have talked about.  If you read alot from forums like these you will find that people have different experiences and that they do not always agree even when they have the same types of experiences, let alone when they do not.

Your experiences will always have a degree of 'difference' from any one Else's, for no 2 of us are exactly alike at any given time.  But there times when each of us goes through certain experiences are similar enough to make sense only to people who are having the same type of experience or who have already gone though it.  

A good example is the experience of being a Parent.  Many people can talk about it and write about it, but when a person actually BECOMES a parent then they have faced and initiation of sorts and only another parent can understand the NEW consciousness that parenting imbues.  There are many other types of experience that create a type of consciousness that only a participant can relate to.

If you are conscious of a loss of energy related to sexual activity it is up to you to decide what is important to you.  My question to you would be, are you capable of handling the results of conserving  your energies?  Will you be able to maintain a balanced progression of the physical and psychic and psychological energies that you conserve?  TO WHAT PURPOSE are you conserving these energies in your personal field?

In general, one shoe does not fit all feet.  What one man accepts another may despise.  A baby does not eat the same food a grown person eats.  
One persons experience is not always comprehended by others.  
You must find a way to use what ever experiences you have to promote your health and growth on all levels.

I will stand by what I have stated and there is scientific evidence for parts of it.  

The functions of production and reproduction and creation and mental imagery are aspects of 1 thing.   For some people, a restriction of some aspects of this 1 thing facilitates the encouragement of a heightening of the ability to 'sense' some things.   This power exists were there no religions at all.
Some times a brief period of sexual abstinence has a payoff in a much larger proportion that the pleasure given up.  It has nothing to do with 'morals'.  

If a person is at a point where they can recognize that FOR THEM at that time, they can perceive a direct consequence of conserving this power, then maybe they should explore that option.  

No one has to 'believe' in it for it to be a real situation for some people, it is a matter of personal development.

"This has nothing to do with religion but with the subtle forces at work at mental and subconscious and physical levels that have very beneficial results."


As for religions influence, it really started with the early tribes.  In order for a tribe to succeed there had to be rules about who could mate with who.  They had to be able to discern which children belonged to whom and what they would inherit.

But what the original post was about was not of a religious nature but one of inner or spiritual  growth.  Inner or spiritual growth is not limited to or by religions.  The reproductive energy or force is a many fold aspect of all energy and force and can be used in ways other than for making new babies or for recreation.   We do not all approach mastery of that energy at the same time.  

When you sleep at night this same force is reproducing your own body using cells and fuel from food using the matrix that already is in your mind and also new information that you have added.  

Just as a preoccupation with sex can keep a person from functioning on other levels, severe and unwarranted abstention can lead to an unhealthy body and mind.   And, there are times when an individual can/might be guided to abstain in order to accomplish specific tasks, which would not be otherwise achievable.  

If some one notices a particularly strong loss of energy or of focus due to sexual activity, it would be expected that they might have concerns about that activity and abstain from it  in order to experiment.  The original post discussed ejaculation, which is almost synonymous with orgasm.  Ejaculation does not mean an act of  sexual reproduction with another person, necessarily.

The moral aspects really come from our historical/social ideas of what is good for the whole of a society, no matter what or when that society existed.

Dear James,
None of the replies so far have mentioned religion at all to the original post.  So, where is the pagan cat?  

Some people choose to abstain from sexual activity and some do not.
Not everyone is in a situation that they have a suitable mate also. There is a point, however, when an aspiring person will need to learn to conserve energy for certain goals.  This has nothing to do with religion but with the subtle forces at work at mental and subconcious and physical levels that have very beneficial results.

This is an important subject.  

Energy is, just that, Energy!

Each of us has the power to create and to reproduce.  We reproduce our bodies every day (at night when we sleep).  

We each also have different vehicle sensitivities and we are not all on the same 'path' at the same time.  

There is a time when the abilty to handle 'reproductive engeries'  encompasses the practice of restraint in order to conserve energy to accomplish certain goals.  From my understanding this is not always a permanent restraint.  

Excessive and compulsive restraint without the proper preparations is more damaging than helpful.  

As I am not your 'teacher' I can only suggest to experiment.  And also exercise caution.   The build up of energy can also reveal areas of our personalities that need to be worked on and to be strengthened.  

Imagine that in a purified or transparent personality the energy can lead to extrordinary experiences and in a personality where there is a weakness or a distortion the weakness or distortion can become energized also rather than just the good qualities.

The terms 'chakra' and 'kundalini' are for sure from the eastern schools of spiritual awakening.  The western schools use terms that are inherent in 'The Great Work' and Alchemy.  Though the terms are different the results are the same and there is no contradictions from one school to another.   Some people are more suited to one or another 'school'.  

What is it that you want to attain?  And Why?  

Meditation is indeed a place to start.    It is a good idea to start with what you already know and use whatever relgious backround that you already have as a springboard.

Please take note.  I did not state that AP was only for spiritually advanced persons.   There are, in fact, dangerous practices in any type of human endeavor including mental and emotional and spiritual practices.  If many of these applications were easy then the world would have many more spiritually advanced person than it does now.  

It is also a know factor that psychedelics can mimic but not accomplish some forms of spiritual phenomena.  For this reason psychedelics are a dead end, and create an illusion rather then establish a form of revelatory conciousness.  Not all ventures into the 'other world' are a higher form of conciousness either.  As each person is different in all human factors from another so is the path of spiritual development different for each person.  We each face different challenges and have different strength and weaknesses, different talents and differnt fallabilities.

Here in this forum most of us do not know one another well enough to act as personl guides or instructors.   But a few things are going to be true.
It is best to have a strong and healthy body and a well balanced mental and emotional life with a positive outlook, before attempting some rather esoteric spiritual practices.

Then the best way to progress is from your own first hand experience as now you will 'suspect' anyones ideas on the subject.

I can tell you that for me,personally, much of what is available easily on WWW or in  many bookstores is not accurate.  

Much of what is easily available is in fact second or third hand information that was also not only incorrect but could have been subject to the effects of the changes over time and socially accepted standards.  

For one thing the colors of chakras are not colors in the ordinairy sense.  They are the equivilant and harmonic colors of the energies involved, not the colors themselves.    Because we as human entities percieve our selves as individual entities, there will be overlaps between what one person states the attributes of each chakra are as opposed to another individuals direct perception.    In another post in these forums, I mentioned that the chakras are analagous the the 'elohim' of genesis and are in fact the 7 creative angels or 'days of the week.  They are 7 creative aspects of the ONE creator and are only divisible in concept not reality.  

My own experience with 'chakras' does not match up with what I have read in many posts and in many books.   Who is to say which is correct?

I might ask, 'what is your objective'?   What do you really want?  And then , what are you willing to give up to get what you want?  

For many people there is a certain entertainment factor or escape from a current situation that leads some people to dwell on 'new age' or like ideas as a way to temper the drivel and strain of mundane and stressful ordinary life.  That is ok.   All roads lead to Rome, so to speak.  On the other hand some people jump into situations that are no remedy and are even dangerous to them compared to the challenges that they face now.

It might be said that the challenges that some of us face are mundane but they certainly do build character and when we learn to deal with what we have we soon will learn to step up to bigger challenges.

In one of Shakespear plays a character  states' the fault dear Brutus is not in our stars but in ourselves that we are such underlings' .  I think it was Cassius, In Julius Ceasar.   The point being that it is not our 'chakras' that we should be concerned about, but in what we think and do and how we behave and what we do with what we have.  

Once again this is only my opinion and I accept that others will not agree with me.    I might suggest that you  read up some on the 7 metals of alchemy.

Hmmm.   What type of meditations are you doing now?  
(Just asking)

Keep in mind that 'kundalini' can be more than what many bargain for.


Lets assume for a moment that you have a car and it runs fine, at 60 MPH, on a well maintained highway.   Now take that same car drop an engine in it that will do 200 MPH and drive it on rough uneven terrain.
If the tires and wheels are not perfectly balanced you will have a rough ride and damage the shocks and brakes and probably the engine mounts.
If you already have some of these problems they will be increased exponentially.  If you have any transmission problems they will be exacerbated and decrease the life of the transmission.   This is just car.

Imagine what it could be like with that type of energy in your body.  It would be imperative to make sure that YOUR vehicle was in tip top condition including your mental and emotional equiptment.

My opinion would be to be a little conservative in experimenting with Kundalini untill such a time that my VEHICLE  was tuned up.

Synchronicity is a great thing.    You seem to have a very good abilty to direct images to your subconcious and also tap into your surroundings in such a way as to synchronize with events.   Keep practicing that.

If you were told that you already practiced 'telekinesis' on a regular basis but just did not know it and that it took longer to do than what you expected, what would your reaction be?

Black magic?  Hmmmm..   If you are a religious person and you pray for your own health and the health of others that is a good thing, if you pray for revenge or unearned wealth or punishment for some one then that is black magic.  

If something is encouraging and positive and overall nutrative and nurturing it is probably good magic.

there is a very good book that is available and relates and interprets some alchemy in terms that are relatively unveiled.  

The True And Invisible Rosicrucian Order.  By Paul Foster Case.

If for a moment we can imagine that the 7 chakras are types of bodies that you posess.  All 7 work together to manifest YOU.  

YOU are a combination of forces and your self conciousness is one facet of all of these forces.   All matter, we know, is made up of captured energy.  Just as your physical body is, so are the more subtle forms such as your chakras.  We call them 'chakras' but they are universal forces.  
The term 'kundalini' is from the eastern schools of practical spiritual work.  Kundalini is also the dragon in some european traditions and is very probably the serpent in the biblical texts the is also Eves tempter.

Some paintings of Mary show her with her foot on a serpent.  This is rather symbolic as the work to control and use the serpent power is accomplished by certain practices in which a person with a highly developed subconcious mind changes the physical body in such a way that the power is able to channel through the chakras and raise our personal conciousness to a different level.  In may type of older art work the subconciousness is symbolised by a female while the concious mind is symbolised by a  male figure.    A good example of this is also the Tarot.

There are other symbolisms that are important but time and space here are limited and there are certain disciplines and practices that take time to learn and develop.   Power is a two edged sword.  It can harm the person who wields it unwisely and history is full of persons of this type.

A seed grow into a tree and then gives fruit.  But you cannot make wine from the seed or the tree but you can from the fruit and then the fruit has to be at a certain ripeness to be just right to eat or to cook with.  Same with us.  We, each of us, are not all ripe at the same time or the same way to be able to use the kundalini or serpent power.    We do use it all the time but not in its pure undiluted concentrated form.  

You have alot of questions and that is good.  Keep asking them.  If you are new to these kinds of topics take your time to read and study everything you can find on the topics before attempting to control these potent forces.  Your physical body must be healthy and strong and your mental and emotional life must be well balanced to be able to utilize this force in such a way for it to benefit you.

Ha Ha.  Sorry.  I made a mistake and too quickly typed in an incorrect name for a chakra.  I stated in my last message that the saturn chakra was involved, actually it is the jupiter or solar plexus area chakra that I had in mind.  Just as I hit the submit tab, it dawned on me that I misnamed the chakra.

Yes it seem that intution is often referred as a talent that women seem to come by more naturally than men.   That does not mean that men to not have it.  Intuition may be developed by anyone and does involve some type of practice to recognize what is a true intuit and just a wild guess.  

Gut feelings, I think, have alot to do with an individuals ability to respond to forces at work in the area referred to as the Saturn chakra or middle chakra.  

It may be a good arguement for reincarnation that some people are  born with talents such as these that they worked on or developed in a previous life time and now can use these abilities more readily than other people.

In any case there seem to be a need for some type of study or discipline to learn to use these abilities on a personal self concious level.

Although some might not quite agree with me, I will state this, if your chakras are not 'activated' you would not be alive.  

With that said, the chakras are the eastern equivilant of the seven metals of alchemy and also the seven creative powers of the elohim represented in the hebrew and christian bible in the story of creation.  They are finer bodies of mankind.   The FULL use or FULL realisation of each of them is not a common occurance.  Each so called chakra has specific functions.  
In some old paintings, Saints or various holy persons are depicted with a halo representing and crown chakra functioning at a level uncommon to most people.

Try 'googling' the term chakra and read up some on the topic.

In discussing Spirituality, it might be stated that the idea is that the so called material world has its beginning in a spiritual concept.  So it might well be that spirituality is a path of discovery of our beginning and its cause or also it is a path of returning to the source of all manifestations.

Some people hold that what is 'spiritual' is on another plane of reality, some hold that it is merely a finer and for the most part invisible to most people perception of reality.  Supra-natural in one case and super-natural in another.

The term 'spirit', I believe, has its roots in the concept of breath or breathing.  It is a power that has an ingoing and outgoing fluctuation, that imbues life and consciousness.  I think many people confuse the terms of 'soul' and 'spirit'.  

Spirituality does not in itself belong to any one religion or faith.  In fact many 'faiths' do not condone some forms of spirituality.

Spirituality can mean and involve something as simple as eating a meal or be as involved as the unwritten Cabala.  

It is a big topic!