Messages

Just this morning I created a dream as an exercise ; I had woken up naturally and I remained in bed with my eyes closed. I pictured myself getting up from bed, taking a shower, getting dressed, and walking outside. The images were not vivid at all in the beginning, I could see them, but they were about as faint as a memory visualization from the waking state. I was completely unable to stay in real time -- my brain just kept on thinking about the end result so I had to "rewind" several times to avoid teleporting.

After a while I was able to sustain the (hypnogogic) images, and much to my surprise, unexpected things started happening. A girl appeared out of nowhere and there was a X,Y axis floating in the middle of the hallway. She was plotting points on it and creating lines between them, drawing polygons. It was like a flat hologram that you could interact with just by touching it.

What started as me replaying memories of a typical morning (with some difficulty) became hypnogogic imagery strong enough for me to feel like I was seeing it with my own two eyes, and then it became a dream that was beyond my control. I moved in my bed a little, and "went back" into the dream. I commanded the girl to get out of my dream and so she walked away, and I was able to continue.

After experiencing things like that, there's no doubt in my mind that hypnogogic imagery is an intermediate state between visualizing and dreaming ; the progression is nearly seamless.

But of course, that's not the only time we dream during the night... Supposedly it works in cycles of ~90 minutes.

My opinion on them is that consciousness seeps into the etheric slowly as we fall asleep. Our thoughts become tangible, dream-like, vivid. External stimuli can trigger a chain reaction of thoughts and hypnogogic imagery will come as a response.

Essentially, when they become very vivid, they're not hypnogogic imagery anymore, they're dreams.

But this happens before I've actually gone to sleep and started dreaming. I'm close to sleep, but I'm not quite there yet. Unless I've been mistaken, and I actually had been asleep, but didn't realise it.

That's when dreams start, though, during the hypnogogic phase.

Usually, you can tell if a substance can prevent you from experiencing OBEs by checking if it suppresses dreams and/or memory. You still have the usual, unconscious separations that come with standard sleep, though.

You multiply that random number by 2 then by 50, as if you just moved it two places to the left...

Since you also add 5 * 50, you have ?00 + 250

1756 + 250 = 2006

The result you need to subtract the year of your birth from is 2006 + ?00.

In other words... ?00 + 2006 - year ...... which is actually ?00 + your age

The jolt is often a response to coming out of a dream ; one minute you're standing doing something unconsciously, the next you're on the ground (on your bed) and that provokes a tiny shock. So yes, it is a re-entry, but the astral body has no weight, we don't just crash into our physical and cause it to jolt, it's more of a disorientation effect.

Work on your dream recall and affirmations some more, surely you'll benefit from it.

Yup, I experience a lot of these hallucinations when I open my eyes during the onset of sleep... Objects move, little marks in the walls turn into crawling insects, dream images overlap on reality.

This also happens with sounds. A little sound can trigger a chain reaction of thoughts which can end up becoming huge compared to the original stimulus.

I hate how on this board everyone always feels like they have to defend everything they say!!

So you'd rather have something like Astral Society, where true and arbitrary share the same definition?

I am a bit of a rarity in that I tend to start dreaming right away when I fall asleep

Is that really rare? I thought everyone did that

WOW, that is quite a coincidence. Of course there's nothing mystical about that either, is there?

Hehehehehe 

You can be skeptical and acknowledge them as real anyway -- say that they're "all in the brain" for instance... I know most doctors think they're just strong hallucinatory episodes.

knightlight, could that dream have been about an earthquake?

Brian of briansprediction.com just wrote that a huge earthquake will rock california in 3 days. He's often posting his predictions after they're announced on national television, which makes him seem like yet another charlatan, but I can vouch for his earthquake predictions -- usually has the exact magnitude on the richter scale, coordinates, time, etc, several days before the fact. He predicted the Java earthquake a few days before it happened, for instance. Just have to wait and see if that one's for real

I think your best bet is to go to sleep around 10 PM if possible, and to set an alarm around 4 AM, and do your OBE attempts then.

The main issue is that the body is begging to go idle, so when you are really tired, you'll just go inactive. It takes a lot of conditioning to muster up the willpower to be active during the sleep state. That's just one barrier that is common to everyone, and it's much easier to overcome it when you are in a drowsy but not critically sleepy state.

Phasing limits itself to subjective consciousness. Monroe's model and the more eastern models of reality do not.

None of the current models are complete.

It serves the purpose of ending a life short, nothing more, nothing less...

The afterlife becoming a reality is a double edged sword ; if you do not fear death, very little is holding you back. The ultimate reality for cynics will be that life is a joke, that we are struggling for nothing -- the best course of action is to stop breeding so that no more humans will have to experience this "hell." Several new-age groups have organized mass suicides for different delusional goals such as travelling to another galaxy for spiritual advancement.

Better acceptance of the ultimate reality also means more new-age churches, rejection of medical/psychiatric care, the usual cult stuff... That results in a lot of self-inflicted deaths, both direct and indirect...

I went a bit overboard when I said "number one cause of death" ; I don't think it could really dethrone "natural causes" unless there is major misinformation... And let's not forget that astral projection, the afterlife, etc, do make life much easier and much more enjoyable.


By the way, I wanted to know what other people's scenario (optimistic or disastrous) would be like. My take on it is just a very pessimistic way to see it -- surely someone sees a brighter future for us

Well, I don't know if the US military can really be trusted when it comes to accuracy ; they use Technical Remote Viewing, which is very different from clairvoyant remote viewing, and pretty inaccurate...

Of course, it's difficult to get accurate information from the Astral no matter what method is used, as Leo said, but it's definitely not impossible... Even knowing the limitations, there is great potential for crisis...

RealmExplorer, what do you mean by "suicide is a lie?"

RealmExplorer, what kind of feedback?

I'm still pretty much split on the issue... I'll try to turn to the astral for guidance, and see what happens...

Didn't Monroe do it after his wife died? He was 80 after all, but,

"Two nights after her departure, I thought I had cooled down enough to attempt to visit her. Which I did. [...] It was a great effort to return, and it took days to recover. [...]
I now have a new challenge, a massive adjustment to make. One I hadn't considered. A very new direction. Can I live in two worlds at the same time? With Nancy in 27, and Here with our lonely fur family -- seven cats and two dogs -- in a lonely house?
I don't know." - Robert Monroe, Ultimate Journey (1994)

Sound like a suicide note to anyone else? :O

Hrmmm... But Monroe dropped the idea of 3 locales completely in favor of focus levels... I'm not sure if it's a good idea to use them in this day and age, since they're obsolete and not really precise...

jub jub, I was wondering: what kind of exercises do you do? What's your usual "OBE practice plan?"

I personally can't project at will yet, but I have a fail-safe plan that usually pans out over 2-3 days and invariably causes partial spontaneous exits during the night. I do a mix of trance meditation and the alarm clock method from the permanent astral topics.

I think the one thing that is helping me the most is to wake up every hour and force myself to write down my dreams... The more I do it, the clearer everything is, and it's increasing the amount of sleep paralysis (partial projection) episodes I get dramatically (I haven't managed to separate fully in 2 months, though... Stress = physical superglue! I also think I may have an energy issue, need to get serious with energy work.).

From what I've heard, it is indeed possible to stay out and let the physical body die. It is a voluntary process that takes tremendous development and determination.

Death is pretty tough to study though... Considering you only get to do it once

Ilieawake, could you try being a little less dogmatic? I am genuinely interested in your point of view, but if you only make statements about your faith in God, not much of a discussion is possible...

There is a flaw in the way dimensions are perceived... Mystic projectors completely forego focuses of consciousness, while adepts of phasing don't seem to put any importance in dimensional locations.

The lucid dream pseudo-science believes that everything is physical, so it doesn't really fit into the puzzle either.

It would be great if we had a kind of super-model that everyone agrees to... I've started writing it all down, but I lack the experience to validate anything. Oh well.

In my mind, dreams occur in the etheric body, but at a low focus of consciousness (i.e. only the subjective is experienced).

That sounds very much like what happens when you smoke too much pot... i.e. a bad trip...

But if it's not related to drugs, see a doctor.

There is no proof... Ethics are a human concept, and karma is often misunderstood as the balance between good and evil... I have yet to see any evidence that there exist limits beyond those that are self-imposed...