Messages

quote:Oh Reemy did you get the roaring with the vibrations? If so, did you note any ear pressure. I am just curious because when I hear the roaring my ears feel like their under great pressure, I have to block it out and ignore it to stop from being awakened physically.

I can't say that I noticed it.  From what I've heard some people typically experience that when the vibrations come and others don't.  I've never had the roaring in my ears.  The vibrations that I experienced with this technique were particularly strong, though.  I even had to tell my self to calm down because it was so intense--they came on really fast and hard, like a roller coaster.

[Self-defeatist attitudes can defeat]

quote:i'm actually a web designer, 21 years of age - for the folk whom are curious. in my 4th post i included html - and it's evidently not permitted. either the webmasters werent mindful or didnt know how to incorporate such, it's certainly one of them.

I'm also a web designer, and have been for 10 years.  I'm surprised that you're not familiar with forum code.  Many forums utilize UBB, or similar code, for posting.  It's been used for a long time.  While UBB is not necessary, and there are forums that don't use it, it's a much smarter move for a webmaster of a large and active site to employ forum software that uses it--it's secure and doesn't allow for user over-ride of site code.

quote:but don't dilute yourself by believing willing can change beliefs; if anything it helps strengthen them.

How would one be deluding themselves by believing this?  You could argue that positive attitudes don't change facts or reality, but to say that it doesn't change beliefs?!  Beliefs are mutable and evolving and while positive thinking may not, for some, in and of itself change a belief, it can leave one open to the idea of a new possibility or an experience, and then that experience can lead to a change of belief.  That's the element of what attitude adjustment changes.

This doesn't just apply to things like OBE, it applies to everything.  Many, many years ago I was a troubleshooter on a help desk.  The reason a lot of my coworkers didn't work out in that position was that they gave up to easily if the solution didn't come to them on the first, second, or third try.  I excelled at that job because I thought positively--there was a solution and it was only a matter of time until I found it. Or the way my husband often gives up on looking for things he "can't find."  I always find the item because I know it's here somewhere and I "can find" it if I keep looking.  It's just positive, can-do thinking.

You can see this in action in any physical therapy clinic.  Patients who are eager to get back on their feet and keep a positive attitude make progress.  Patients who are negative and refuse to believe they can get better rarely see as much success.  In the most severe cases this happens.  I'm not saying a spinal-cord injury can be over come by will, but even in those cases, while the ability to walk may be forever impossible, there can be improvements of sensation and independence from ventilators that doctors told them would never happen.

Positive attitude changes our mind-set, which in turn affects our willingness to continue to strive for something elusive, which in turn can lead to experiences that definitely change belief.

I'm not saying it's necessary to truly believe in something like OBE for it to be able to happen.  I do think it's important not to comletely disbelieve if you're trying make it happen.  You can at least stay neutral to be open to the experience.  Self-defeatist attitudes can defeat.


Namaste,
Reemy

My dream journal is absolutely critical.  It helps in more ways than I can probably cover in this post.  

First, it really does improve dream recall.  When you tell your self that your dreams are important enough to be written down every day, your mind seems more willing to hold onto the dreams.  I probably had 10% or less dream recall before journaling.  Now I would say it's at least 90%.  I have several dreams to record almost every morning--sometimes 5 or 6 pages worth.

Secondly, I think if one is serious about dream activity, lucid dreaming, OBEs, etc. then writing it down just makes sense.  I know I'd never be able to remember all of the subtleties of those experiences otherwise.  It makes it easier to go back and see important patterns as well.  I can see improvement and setbacks early on.  It makes it easy to notice if a new technique that I'm employing is really making a difference.  I would have never noticed some really important, but subtle, dream patterns if it had not been for my journal.

Also, I think journaling helps program our subconscious.  We're reinforcing the dream imagery by writing it down.  If you're interested in lucid dreaming that's important--especially if you use dream signs as a trigger for lucidity.  I've had many more lucid dreams since starting my journal.

For me it's not just the journal.  I have my journal, and eventually all my dreams, OBEs, and even important meditation notes are transcribed there, but I don't start by writing it all there.  By my bed there is a note pad and pen, sometimes I reach for that and start writing while I'm still half asleep--it's barely legible, but I just need to get some quick notes out before I lose the images.  I also keep a tape recorder by the bed.  If I can't bring myself to write, that's the best--that's also good because I can use it while still lying in bed with my eyes closed--and that's the best state for dream recall.  If a dream is really vivid and lengthy I may go to the computer to type it out.  I can type faster than I can write so it helps sometimes.  Eventually all of those sources get copied over to my journal later.

I can't recommend it enough.  Admittedly I'm obsessed with my dream journal but, honestly, it's just so extremely valuable to me and a really important part of the progress I've made.  

Namaste,
Reemy

upstream wrote

quote:Reeny, please accept my apologies for all my sins against you. (We were taught in the university that girls doesn't dream.)

There were no sins!  And don't trust your professors []

Love the bear.

Namaste,
Reemy

quote:Who broke the big mirror then?

[] That made for a good laugh!

T.L. wrote

quote:Once in nrem consciously isn't it so much easier to start the seperation.

This was absolutely what I found.  Separation was completely effortless.  The vibrations came on strong and quick, and in no time I was able to float up and then get in an upright position.  This was surprising as with my prior efforts (using different techniques) I was still having difficulty with out-of-body movement.

T.L. wrote

quote:Perhaps once you can get to nrem with ease, which it will be a lot easier after the first time we can do a joint experiement while projecting to validate them.

I will be in touch with you about this in the future.  I'm definitely interested, but I still have some way to go before I'm confident in my ability to produce this state every time.  I have had two subsequent attempts that did not have the same results.  I think I know what the problems were.  Simple problems really...like being too exhausted prior to one attempt, which didn't leave me enough time to firmly establish my awareness before sleep was unavoidable.  On the other occasion it was the opposite problem--I was too well rested and simply stayed in a pleasant state of relaxation that did not lead to sleep.  I'll be trying this again later today.

upstream wrote

quote:Reemy should have no preconceptions because he have not experienced this state before. I have been experiencing similar states for years, so I'm able to make generalisations based on the patterns I've observed. Moreover, my duty is to have some conceptions about all of this.

Not that it's relevant to this discussion, but for the record Reemy is a she [].  I can't say that I entered into this without any preconceptions.  I've had success with lucid dreams for years--starting first from natural ability and perfected by the techniques of Laberge.  Due to my natural curiosity I've been inclined to study sleep patterns in general and in myself.  I've had a medical sleep study done, I've timed my REM cycles, I've experimented with interrupted sleep...so on.  But I did enter into this ignorant to the concept of full awareness in NREM.  If anything I might say that I was reluctant to think it was even possible, but that in no way hindered my eagerness to give this a try.  I did this purely as an experiment.  I didn't do it expecting to get the results T.L. spoke of but rather just to see what I would get.

T.L. wrote

quote:How do I know it is nrem sleep? Well when I enter this state I am not dreaming for one, secondly I feel my physical eyes slow to a stop and the whole time in here they arent moving.

This is what I felt also.  I could feel my eyes stop moving.  For me a sinking sensation came with this.  I've had plenty of lucid dreams fall apart into blackness (but clearly still in REM) before, where I might try to pull it back together or I might just lose lucidity, but this experience felt very different.  There was no question in my mind that I was no longer in REM.  Hopefully with future attempts I can better explain the subtle sensations.

BTW, I've really enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread.  

Namaste,
Reemy

T.L., I wanted to let you know about a measure of success I've had from implementing your techniques outlined in these articles.

First I want to mention that I have been able to successfully have lucid dreams for years and have used the spinning method in the past for prolonging them (though never knowingly going past REM in doing so.)  Honestly, when I read your article I was less interested in the lucid dream aspect of it as I was in maintaining awareness in the non-REM cycles themselves.  You see, I'm new to OBEs and I was looking for a more consistent method to reach a state of vibrations.  I mention this because my intention when attempting this was not to spin and continue lucid dreaming when the non-REM stage vibrations came (which would be more valuable to your research) but simply to exit my body.

Everything went according to plan.  I maintained my awareness past the hypnogogic stage, felt the pulsations, blacked out for a bit, and came to in-dream.  After the dream cycle I felt a sinking effect and then blackness.  I was fully aware, I had a complete sense of my body, and I had a feeling in my head and stomach that told me the vibrations were imminent.  I even said to myself, "T.L. was right about the nature of the non-REM phase."  The vibrations came on strong and I was able to separate from my body easily.  This was only my third conscious OBE and it was the easiest, clearest, and longest to date.  It would have lasted longer had it not be for a poorly timed ringing telephone.  I have to thank you again for posting your articles as it has helped me so much in this respect.

I will continue working with this.  Once I get past this initial need to refine my out-of-body process I will work on the effort to return to the lucid dream state in non-REM.  I'll be happy to report to you any progress I have with that.

Namaste,
Reemy

T.L., I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to write and post these articles.  It was all very well written and quite informative.  I look forward to trying your techniques in the future.  

Namaste,
Reemy

quote: Originally posted by Hannah b
In 90% percent of my obe (they are usually the low energy ones, not very spiritual...+ I feel the closenes of the physical dimension), I experience many sexual situations.
I'm not being attacked...it's more like I get hit with this huge sexual energy

Hannah b, have you read Robert Monroe's Journeys Out of the Body?  In it he discusses how many of his early out-of-body experiments were dominated by a need to sexually connect to others he encountered.  He described it as frustrating at times, in that it was holding him back from further explorations.  In order to overcome it, he said that he would promise himself that he would take care of those sexual urges later, after he'd done a bit of exploring.  He said that the promise--whether he kept it or not--seemed to be all he needed to satisfy the situation.  Maybe you could see if that works for you.

I had a similar situation but it was with my lucid dreams.  Seems all I wanted to do was to fly or have sex.  Eventually (after a year or so)I was able to move on to more creative endeavors (not that I totally gave up flying or having sex in lucid dreams because it's still good fun.)

Namaste,
Reemy

I'm heading out to get Far Journeys today.  I can't wait to read it and Ultimate.  I've heard Far Journeys is the best of Monroe's work.  I've really been enjoying Monroe's words lately.

KrazyKitty,

When I was a kid--from the ages of 5 through 16, or so--I often woke in paralysis.  Sometimes I slipped back into dreams without realizing it, and only thought that I was still conscious of the paralysis.  That sounds like what happened with you.  At one point you were genuinely conscious of sleep paralysis, then in the midst of it you slipped into a dreamstate and continued the theme.

Good luck with trying to have an OBE!

Namaste,
Reemy

Major Tom, I was still writing my 1st reply to you when you posted again.  Thanks for the welcome!

You said, "For some minds one experience like yours proves life after death, for other minds it raises more questions than answers. I tend to fall in the last category."

Although I would love to belong to the first category, I'm afraid I'm with you in the last.  I'm firmly a student in life--always learning, seldom knowing.  Not so bad, really.

I will reflect on my dream/OBE more later--try to digest different bits of it.  One thing that has happened is that I feel calmer and more alert after having had this experience...I don't know why, but I do.

It's nice to know that my confusion isn't unusual. []

As for enhancing lucidity, I did try that (with Buhlman's methods), but clearly I need to work on it more.

Namaste,
Reemy

Thanks for responding, Major Tom.  I really appreciate your input.  You see, I've been worried I would have this dilemma due to my history with lucid dreams.  I know how real dreams can feel, and I know the exhilaration that comes with dream control.  I don't want to confuse that with OBE.  It's a difficult subject since things can become so intertwined.

This was actually my second confusing experience.  There was another a couple of weeks ago, but it wasn't as involved and I didn't have that feeling of strong vibrations before.  But I know the mind can create amazing realism...but the spirit can do some amazing stuff, too.

I guess the confusion will linger, but your opinion helps a lot.  For now I'll continue on and see what happens.  I'll just take this experience for whatever it was.

Namaste,
Reemy