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When I do the full body circuit, energy noticeably gets "stuck" in my throat and chest region. (I lose a small bit or all of my awareness passing through this area.) This causes an immediate feeling of anxiety that I release with a deep breath. Also, when I pass energy through this area, my awareness sometimes gets locked on the beating of my heart (which might be harder and faster than usual during energy raising--or I'm just focusing on a normal beat).

Does anyone have any suggestions for overcoming these problems? In general, I can feel and move energy pretty easily. Would carefully beginning primary center work help to alleviate these problems or would it make them worse?

Would tracing awareness around the full body circuit without sponging help?

Thanks,

Mark

Last night I "woke up" mostly paralyzed with strong sensations running through my chest. At the time, I assumed I was under psychic attack and made my best attempt at shielding myself. This decreased the sensations somewhat. I even lashed out randomly with energy a few times. I found that I was able to sort of flail my legs and maybe my arms but my torso felt "locked" to the bed, and it was a huge struggle to try and force open my eyelids, which I gave up on.

I continued to struggle, agitated but determined to "win," and not really scared. At some point this all stopped and I somehow ended up out of bed, a little freaked out. I was thinking, "that was so real!" I think I went for the light switch, and it clicked, but didn't turn on. In fact, none of the lights did. At the time I thought, "How did they do that?" I suppose I was referring to the "negs" that were trying to attack and possess me. (Feel free to start laughing at any point.)

Soon after that, I instantaneously went from an upright position to being on my side. Very confused, I realized I was in my bed and opened my eyes. At this point I was like, "Was that a dream, or psychic attack? It was so real!"

About 40 minutes later, I finally realized that this *may* have been my dazed/semi-conscious/confused first OBE. Comments welcome.

Thanks for reading,

Mark

Here's a new technique to try. I was just messing around and received quite a shock when I first did this:

Take both awareness hands and center them at the sole of one foot. Grasp the whole of the sole with one hand and pull the other hand away through the leg.

For me, this can result in an large, intense flow/turn/wave through my entire leg.

My speculation is that leaving some awareness behind keeps the exchange ports active through the entire pull, resulting in more energy being drawn through the foot.

It's quite stimulating, but I haven't decided whether it'd could/should be used for raising energy somehow.

Anyone have ideas to simplify/extend/clarify this technique?

Mark

What is Mobile Body Awareness (MBA)?

Is it our memory of the shape and feel of our body?

Is it a physical ability (kinesthetic awareness) like sense of sight, hearing, and smell?

Is it (at least partially) our imagination?

Is it the beginning of extra-sensory perception? Once we can "feel" our body, will we start to get better at perceiving things outside our body?

Is it a combination of all the above? What else? Does anyone feel they have vivid MBA inside their bodies? Can anyone feel bones, organs, etc? Sometimes I feel like I can...

Why does "energy flow where the awareness goes"? Why does MBA work? Is MBA a targetting mechanism, a tool? Or is it fundamentally connected with energy movement?

Mark

I've find that the more energy work I do, the less I use awareness hands (AH). I still use AH for very specfic targetted actions like thin brushing and stirring actions (using awareness fingers). And I also use AH when I need to very firmly and clearly center my awareness somewhere--I "grip" that area before continuing. However, I've found that for large or twisty-turny energy movement that AH almost seem to get in the way. If my real hands don't bend and and move in a certain way, sometimes I can get my AH to do it and sometimes I can't. Also, sometimes I can't get my AH to get a "grip" on the energy, and even when I do, it seems like they're just along for the ride. I've had great success though just "pushing" energy where I want it to go with my mind. It's a vivid, resistive rush through that part of the body. (only recently) Maybe I just need more practice with my AH. So, are AH invaluable mental tools because of the way our brains are wired, but only "crutches" (in a good way) to get us started? Or are AH real? What is real, anyway?

One last thing. Sometimes when I'm carefully pushing an awareness finger across the surface of my body and I happen to go over a primary energy center (chakra), my awareness finger "dissolves into" that area of my body. It's difficult to "feel" that part of the body because it's hard to keep anything together there. Has anyone else experienced this?

Mark



Edited by - kifyre on 13 February 2002  15:00:14

There is a technique called Tumo(sp?) Yoga that allows practitioners to maintain their body temperatures in freezing conditions. I saw a show where one expert practitioner exerted himself in *sub-zero* water for a lengthy period of time. I believe the normal reaction to such exposure is shock and coma within a minute, if not sooner. After he got out of the water wearing nothing but a bathing suit (in Alaska, in the middle of winter) they took his temperature and it was exactly 98.6.

Anyway, I was wondering of people have had any experience with this kind of thing. I've tried to imagine and visualize heat beating, radiating strongly from my sub-navel and *something* seemed to be happening. (I felt a little less cold.) I don't *think* I was fooling myself.

Seems like this technique would be invaluable for certain climates.

Mark



Edited by - kifyre on 13 February 2002  13:50:09

quote:Originally posted by JoWo
Quantum Metaphysics provides a clear, logical explanation of how we are all tied together in multi-dimensional reality, and how we hurt ourselves if we hurt others.  Unless there is a general awakening and understanding of this automatic feedback, we'll keep roaring down the path to disaster.

Jo.

Jo, Everyone,

I think we all agree that horrible things are going on in the world. And the question is, what to do? What to do? I think it's important to note that human beings move through stages of consciousness. The general trend, supported by a vast amount of research, is a person's consciousness moving from egocentric, to ethno-centric, to world-centric. This is a slow process. Everyone starts off at square-one, ethnocentric, and, throughout their lives people move to a wider and wider embrace. But there's no guarantee that any individual will make it to world-centric consciousness. You can get stuck at any point. For example, a huge percentage of the world's population is stuck at roughly ethno-centric consciousness. You might say that the center-of-gravity, the average of the world's consciousness is ethno-centric. People only care about their families, or their communities, or their countries. Oh, people feel bad about what's happening in the world, but not bad enough to *do* anything. That haven't made it far enough to world-centric to feel a gut-level drive to break the habits of their lives and reach out, band together to help others. Recycling, AIDS awareness, donations, all these external structures are essential, but they don't stick without a corresponding change in consciousness.

So, again, what to do? Well, books like Jo's are a start. They provide an intellectual framework to grow into, and permission to begin to seek higher and wider realities. But ideas aren't enough. Until your embrace spans the globe, until the suffering of others cuts as deeply as your own suffering, until through-and-through--intricacy to emptiness to radiance begins to shine through you, until you begin to see your own Self looking back at you as you gaze at the world... You won't be moved to emancipate and empower yourself. You won't be moved to seek like-minded souls to network change, little-by-little.

Ideas are a start, but they aren't enough. How then might we begin to not just believe we are connected, but to feel it radiantly, in our bones, to know it like we know our face in the mirror? We must work on ourselves, reach up to helping hands, and reach down to those that are searching below us. Books like Jo's are a part of this.

Ideas aren't enough, but practices transform. Practices like meditation, for example. This is the crux of the matter: practices transform. Peak experiences, grace, sudden knowing of connectedness can happen at any time. These experiences can change you forever, but they are fleeting, leaving only feeling and memory. To live it, in every moment, little by little you can either let life experience slowly raise you up, or you can  do things like meditate to accelerate your growth. For further reading about stages of consciousness I recommend Boomeritis by Ken Wilber (heavy reading, heavily researched, but still a novel), and for practices to accelerate the evolution of your consciousness I recommend Essential Spirituality by Roger Walsh.

Mark

Generally speaking, while you're doing energy work you should be breathing normally and relaxed. If you ever find yourself tensing up or constricting your breathing, then you might want to ease off a bit.  For more information, I recommend "The Lover Within" by Julie Henderson, Ph.D. and "Male Multiple Orgasm" by Jack Johnston, M.A. If you don't have the money, simply pay attention to how you *feel.* And be gentle with yourself. You'll be able to take it much farther in the long run. I speak from a few years of personal experience.

Mark

Shaman,

Thank you for your book recommendation. I've looking for some maps to play with in my meditative exploration.

Mark

Well, for what it's worth...

This is a complicated subject, and I can't even begin to organize my thoughts into something coherent at this point. However...

I can feel "energetic" sensation throughout my body. Sometimes it correlates with breath. In the heart, throat, forehead, sub-navel area, groin creases, thumb joints, etc, etc, etc, etc, there does seem to be more localized, consistent sensation in places. Full-body, or localized, it can get *very* intense, conditions being right. And too many more observations to list...

Emotion, insight, reaction, feeling, passion, pleasure, healing, a wealth of senstion that I'm still exploring -- these I have found in the body. Certain feelings do seem to have certain locations. No magical powers yet...

Now, most importantly,

Tay,
Have you viewed the chakras personally from an obe state?

Mark

quote:Originally posted by ssjoku

how do you astral travel??

Also, read Flake's ebook in the file library on this site.

Mark

Flake,

This book is excellent. I've read a lot of stuff, and you've covered just about *everything* that I think is important without making it too complicated.

This book came along at just the right time for me. So thanks!

Mark

quote:Originally posted by Skudgett

Hiya people []
i ve read every thing about astral projection and done all the research!
i just need a answer for one question to which i cannot find the answer for!
I am 15yrs old and im just wondering if it is dangerous for me to do it at this age! They say that astral projection is not dangerous and that there is no age limit but i just wanted to put my mind at rest1
If you can help me out by answering my question i would be very grateful!

Just make sure there're people you trust and can talk to in your life -- parents, teachers, a counselor, etc. You don't have to tell them what you're doing, but people like that can help you stay grounded and healthy while you're exploring yourself and beyond yourself. You might get more than you bargained for if you keep at it. But it's worth it, and lots of fun too.

Mark

Thank you! All sorts of crazy stuff happened the first time I used it, but not in subsequent times. I hear that's pretty typical. We'll see what develops long term now.

Mark

quote:Originally posted by Inguma

Hey guys

If anyone out there still cares I got a q-link pendant off Kifyre a couple of months ago. There is some effect, but it it not half as powerful as the Ally, and it is different.
Its odd, often (not so much now, but before), when I would take it off my body would kinda "sigh" like with relief. I dunno, I think its kinda like having someone next to you all the time who refuses to let you slouch so you have to keep your back straight all the time []. Then, when the person leave its like "aaaaahhhhhh" <slouches back again>, although they were still doing you good.
Anyway I didn't think it was doing much, but then I went on my computer for a couple of hours one day and came off feeling terrible - it was definately different from when wearing it. So I am quite sure its helping "fend off"/whatever the EM radiation.
So, I wear mine almost all the time. I do think its doing good, just not as much and in a slightly different way to the Ally. Maybe thats good in some ways - to revert back to the back slouching, the Ally is more like having an iron rod comfortably stuck to your back so you CANT slouch! Although, this is quite an inadequate description - it forgets that the slouching/EM radiation is not ours, and we shouldn't have to deal with it in the first place, the body being able to use all the lost energy much better without it thanks...
Other effect - there was a slightly woosy feeling when I first put it on, again similar to the Ally but not as pronounced.
In summation though, I am not as convinced with the pendant as with the Ally. I think anyone who can should buy the latter, the former being useful mostly for people strapped for cash and doing lots of office work or stuff in from on computers all day.

peace
Rob

Fascinating, thanks for the update. I can definitely relate to that "sigh of relief." There were times when I wanted to rip the thing off... so I did.

Mark

Hi Folks,

I've been following this thread for ages. Count me in, and be on the lookout for me too.

All the best,

Mark

In the healing protocol for Spring Forest Qigong, one "heals" the spot on the uninjured side of the body first, then moves to the actual spot that needs healing. So if you have a good shoulder and a bad shoulder, the practitioner "heals" the good shoulder first. This perhaps creates some sort of resonance that draws the bad side to healthier function. The same sort of thing could have been happening unconsciously or automatically in your case.

Or something else.

All the best,

Mark

This book screwed me up for a bit, but it was mostly my ignorance. I believe the author has found peace, but I feel that his attempt to convey that peace is flawed. This book is valuable, but it is only a small piece of the puzzle.

Recontacting the body, fully inhabiting the body, is only the first step. The author states that this is only a gateway, but he doesn't really give much else to go on. To use Ken Wilber's terminology, the body is prerational, not transrational. There's no lasting peace in hiding in your senses.

If you're looking for a little consolation, some nice relaxing reading, a break, a little guidance on how to inhabit the body and relax, then this is a decent book, a stepping-stone.

If you're depressed, suffering, or overwhelmed with life, do not get lost in this book. It's a new-agey band-aid and won't solve anything.

Mark

Hi Adrian and 13,

I find this conversation fascinating, and I'd like to directly explore the reality of all these topics for myself. Currently, as far as I know, the most practical material is Initiation Into Hermetics which I intend to investigate and possibly integrate into my current practices.

If either of you could recommend material balanced slightly more towards exercises than theory (if anything readily available exists) I'd appreciate it.

When people ask me to recommend material for "energy" work, I'm sometimes uncomfortable making recommendations because I often synthesize, append, and discard from many sources. I almost feel as if I'm going to mislead a person.

So, with the understanding that I will carefully evaluate recommended material on a point-by-point basis, read between the lines, and take everything with a grain of salt, recommend away if either of you wish.

What are some materials that furthered both your theoretical understanding as well as actual ability to produce results and discern fact from fiction?

All the best,

Mark

[Check out the sticky topics in this forum. --Mark]

You could always "find God through sex"... Check out www.deida.com

Further, www.multiples.com

I recommend both highly if you'd like to start at the bottom, get a personal feel for what's really happening, and decide for yourself. Me? I haven't decided yet. But I'm leaning towards sexually active, with some sort of management of ejaculation. (I like to call it "voluntary ejaculation," as opposed to ejaculation control.

For me, logic and love point to sex at the moment, but with a twist (a la the two websites above.)

All the best,

Mark

Wait, so are the electric and magnetic fluids another name for yin and yang? That doesn't quite jive with 13's explanation above, as far as I can tell.

Hi Aaron,

Thanks very much for posting the Dalai Lama quote. There's a theory of mind that states that sufficient complexity will give rise to consciousness. Proponents of this theory believe that our consciousness is an "epiphenomenon" of the brain, a ghost in the machine, an illusion. Or you could look at it as *everything* is consciousness or nothing is. This theory goes well (I think) with the Buddhist concept of "emptiness" or non-interiors or no-self.

At first blush, this theory might seem to indicate that we are nothing more than our physical bodies. (And I don't like that either! ) But, if there are subtler and subtler levels of reality "induction" or "coupling" between, say, the physical and the astral might be going on all the time. A pattern "grown" in the physical (a human being) might imprint a pattern in the astral. This pattern, if of sufficient detail and strength would inherently believe itself to be the original "I" and automatically be conscious, simply be existing. (If "emptiness" holds and pattern-with-feedback equals consciousness.)

In a perfect mind-split, the new mind would feel itself to be the original "I". If everything went right though, the new-I would realize it was the copy, because it would be out-of-body, etc. Then, in order for the new-I to have an "afterlife" it would somehow have to get its experiences into the original-I, the downloading of memories.

It's fascinating to think about. Depending on how well you got along with yourself(!) you could do all sorts of interesting things with a team of new-I's if you projected several new-I's at once and were able to download all the memories.

What if out-body-experiences are usually so confusing because most of us are inexperienced and we make terrible, low-quality, low-energy mind copies so they aren't as conscious? (Luckily we still get the memories back (sometimes!) because, perhaps, we humans are designed that way.)

Further, if someone could actually do this (make several quality new-I's), then surely they could make lessor-I's or constructs that would report directly back, be more directly linked, etc.

Please note, this is all theoretical. Though I've gotten a great motivation boost to keep practicing after that great Dalai Lama quote.

Finally, there's a fairly new science fiction book called "Kiln People" that has nothing to do with obe's, but nicely explores the consequences of temporary mind-splits. A fun read if you like science fiction, and it gets you thinking about how you might relate to your new-I's.

quote:Originally posted by Inguma

Is the q-link very effective in what it does - yes
Was is made using alien technology - no (ie pendulum spins in a circle)

::cough::

Perhaps slightly different wording? "effective in what it does"--if it did nothing, you'd still get a yes. (Of COURSE, you are perhaps just paraphrasing what you asked your subconscious.)

Mark

Hey LJ,

I felt tingling in my thumb the first time I tried NEW, but I'd been doing Qigong for two years before I started. Even so, it was a *year* before energy sensations were strong enough in my body that I was finally convinved I wasn't imagining it half the time. Now, about two years after I started NEW, energy running through my body is a daily part of my life.

Make sure to relax, breath (very, very important), and feel. When you get a handle on a sensation, you can then work to amplify it. I'm going to contradict myself slightly now. If you do a motion, and pretend you feel something, you can bring on sensation, eventually to the point where you know you're not imagining it.

Even if you don't feel anything pretend/know/will that you're moving energy, and you will be. Eventually you'll start to feel it too.

All the best,

Mark

Hey wassup,

This might help:

Pretend you've got a bright flashlight, and instead of moving anything back and forth you're just *looking* back and forth. You're looking for sensation that's already there. Don't try to *make* anything happen too hard (yet) or you'll drown out the faint sensations that you're trying to get a feel for. Once you know what you're looking for you can take the sensations and amplify them, but you have to get a handle on them first.

Also, you can pretend you feel something. Eventually you'll have no doubt that it's *not* your imagination.

That's how I think about it, but different words might work better for you! For what it's worth. Keep practicing; it'll come.