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Does this signify that you don't know for sure that what he reported as part of his experiences was accurate to what you have experienced regarding the existence of F2, F3, F4? 

Can you verify that what Frank describes regarding these areas is accurate?

Let me put it like this:

If you read the full Frank PDF (1187 pages) how many detailed experiences of Frank do you think you will find?

I've elaborated on this issue before in my review of the Newsletters. Really, check it out and think things over. Then, please come back and tell us if you've got some new thoughts.

For a while I almost stopped reading the PDF as it gave too little of value, but I've picked it up again, as I feel I should finish it.

I think that's the most sane post so far.

Consider that Hawking has an illness that most people only live 3 years with. Hawking has had his illness for 40 years.

He has had a lot of time to think about his situation.

If you request "Awareness now!" or "Clarity now!", and then wait some moments or until your vision re-stabilizes, does that improve the reality-fluctuations you experience?

You guys are not seriously buying into this poppycock, are ya?

degrading

This is the biggest most recent bovine poo I've come across lately. This is a new one this is...

could u keep some grace

I think guides can. Or at least they can move objects, as by example in Monroe's 1st book, where he found some money, hidden on the ground.

It is probably just some energy body development. If your pet is nearby when you meditate, it may disturb you. It can also be astral noise from the M-Band, or even a guide that helps you. Can you place your pet in another room without it disturbing you? If your armpet continues disturbing you, perhaps you should take it to the vet?

start a new thread about it

Hey I got a question!

In terms of astral and so on, does hell actually exist. Has any astral voyager dared to find out?

Moen has. You may read this info about some concepts, like Hells and Satans:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_permanent_astral_topics/bruce_moen-t17022.0.html;msg270625#msg270625

And here is my review of Moen's books:
http://www.astralpulse.com/forums/welcome_to_book_reviews/bruce_moen_afterlife_series_books-t31933.0.html

Buhlman has written that there is a clear difference between an LD and an OBE.

That's a statement from someone who has his own experience to fall back on.

And to me, yes, that difference matters.

A pear is not an apple.

And you're seriously limiting yourself by this particular line of thinking.

But feel free to continue limiting yourself... it's your life afterall.

Have the thought struck you, that you're limiting yourself by thinking everything is a metaphor?

But feel free to continue limiting yourself... it's your life after all.

Initially I assumed that "Jesiah" was stuck in F 23. But some
forum members got me thinking. Then I remembered that I had
read that people in F 26 can be alone as they base their
Belief System on own experiences that are _almost_ close
to a correct astral discovery, which few other people know of.

Could Jesiah have been stuck in F 26?

I tried to go to the dome and get some answers. I saw Tom Hanks
stand there in his usual guard position, legs somewhat wide
apart and hands crossed at the lower part of his stomach,
wearing his dark suit.

I know that most of the time I get no answers, impossible
to understand answers or a guide who suddenly becomes
very interested in studying the ground or the walls of a building.

But nevertheless I asked my questions. Tom H's answers are
within rounded parenthesis. So I decided to ask if Jesiah
was stuck in either F 23 or F 26:

"Was Jesiah stuck in Focus 23?" (No.) Tom H shook his head.

"Was Jesiah..." (Focus 25.)


I stopped asking for a moment. I had intended to ask for F 26,
but before I could finish my question, Tom H had answered;
Focus 25. I felt doubtful, so I asked my second question
any way:

"Was Jesiah stuck in Focus 26?" (No.)


That was a surprise. Focus 25?! But that didn't add up! F 25
is a place where there should be a lot of people. Not single
discarnates alone! I haven't read about any such F 25, so I asked:

"Why was he alone?" (I-so-la-ted, himself. He had isolated himself.)

At the first word I even could perceive Tom H move his mouth
to really spell it out for me. It was apparently important to
realize that he had isolated himself in an F 25 environment.

Just thought it was an interesting detail.

Words of God...

I say, it's not the talk, it's the walk!

then u write a book

read up on ur Monroe

What exactly is he saying "no" to?

keep ur lines shorter

Yes, I know what you mean. In Forums like these we tend to refer to SP as only that which we may experience prior to an OOBE.

no

As for extreme Sleep paralysis, Grey inadvertently gave me some great information. I think I was having an OBE.

...I had no control over my body, it was walking on its own. The only thing I could relate to was SP.

Please, could you explain exactly what you mean by Extreme SP. When paralyzed, you can't move. You are paralyzed. So how do you relate that to walking?

Did you have mind-split, where you saw yourself walking? Because, in that case, you had a mind-split, as described by Robert Bruce. Robert Bruce's mind-split effect.

Next thing I know, I was in the that soft place(disputably, F21/22 ).

F 21 = A kind of black void, which is part of the ELS and provides a sideways exit to _other_energy_systems_, like Locale III, as described in Monroe's first book.

F 22 = Dream land, where we are when we dream, LD, or are highly intoxicated, having extremely high fever, on heavy drugs or being very insane.

But really... (I'm being rhetoric here, but) why does that matter?

yes

I don't know what an "Extreme SP" is. But I know what my own SPs are.

I can only move my eyes and open and close my eyelids. That's all I can do in SP. I _can't_ control my breath at _any_ rate!

Also, when I'm in SP, I'm clearly in C1.

F 22

Everyone should have that in their sig.

This great machine of yours.
A while, sound it made.
It jolted with lightning.
Now not so expensive anymore.
Smells burnt and silent is.

[--- Session one - Preparation ---]

Several years ago stories of retrievals seemed more common on this
forum. I have one story of my own which I've posted on a completely
different forum. But I think it's interesting as it shows that PUL can
be rejected and that you have to do some "left-brain" talking to
convince your target to move on.

===================================================

RELIGIOUS MAN YEAR 830 (?) and ENGINEER FROM FINLAND

This was an unusual retrieval for me, by several reasons:

(*) Action took place over three different sessions, over two days.
(*) I was swapped out of the area temporarily.


--- Session one - Preparation ---

During the session I felt a lot of vibrations at my stomach area.
Not much happened and I finished my regular session, but I didn't
get up at once. Instead I rested for some minutes and just put my
head in my pillow. Suddenly I got the impression that I was at the
backstage of a theatre. There was a lot theatre equipment to be used
at stage and ropes were hanging down at various places.

I saw the face of a woman in her 30ies. She looked like a french theatre
woman, an actress with black hair, red lips and an unusual wide mouth.
Strangely enough she was between sort-of-ugly-and-beautiful. She appeared
several times, and some times her face was close to mine. I got a good look
at her but no special message. Afterwards I wonder if it was some kind of
test, to observe how well my perception was. The theatre-woman was most
likely a Helper and I think she also had a strong personality.



--- Session two - Initial contact ---

During this session I listened to JOOB D, and it was the same day, a few
hours later. Suddenly I saw a dome building. The dome looked a little
like the top of the White House, but this dome was darker and the dome
started closer to the ground and was not surrounded by any other building.
In front of the dome there was a huge green lawn. The dome was impressive.

I assume I was 50-80 meters or more from the dome. Between me and the dome,
perhaps 10-20 meters from me, a man in a black suit was standing. He was
well buildt, somewhat shorter than me and in his 30ies. He seemed to be
a few years younger than the theatre-actress-woman.

The suit man gave me an impression of an American security agent. Now I
think I clicked out or lost parts of what happened. I think I got this
brilliant idea, and asked if he could adjust my chest energy centre. I then
remember that the suit man put his hand into my chest and made some
"adjustments". I now got a series of chills, pretty neat ones, running
up and down my body and back, and giving me the goose bumps.

I also think he joked with me, because I asked what his name was and he
answered "Tom Hanks" with a smile. He didn't look a bit like the actor
Tom Hanks at all. The suit man more reminded me of one of the "evil"
CIA agents from the TV series The X Files.

Somehow the theatre-actress also appeared, perhaps the surroundings was
altered for a moment. Perhaps I was back at the actress theatre and
jumped between the dome lawn and the theatre, but anyway, the actress
put her hand into my head and it hurt a little physically in my forehead
and I remember saying that she and the suit man were allowed to do any
adjustments to me that they wanted to do. The head ache lasted until
after my session was finished and then faded away.

I may have clicked out for a short while, but I think I was on a boat
out on the ocean for a while. At first I thought I was back to one
of my guides, who had a small sailing boat at the coast of Greece,
where I once saw the sea being grey and stormy. But this seemed to be a
different, much bigger boat, made of steel. You could say it was too
big to be called "boat" and the word "ship" would be more appropriate.
I also saw no one on the deck of the ship. The ship was in a big storm,
water was dark, sky was grey and the waves were big. This ship would
prove important the next day.

Click, click! I moved around. At some point I think I was either back
outside the dome or at the theatre I saw the day before.

I asked the actress her name and first got one French name and then
she said she was the same woman as the one I several weeks ago saw
during a session somewhere in Norway (non-physically). I was a little
startled as the Norwegian woman had been much more of a teacher, having
a totally different personality and appearence, so maybe the two women
were two different incarnations. I'm not sure there names are valid,
so I'll keep them for myself.

The suit man then lead me into the dome building. Inside the dome
there was a brown marble floor and the surroundings felt cool. The dome
outside and inside had so far felt like 1960s - 1970s or maybe up
to present time. But once I was lead to the right into the dome, the
era seemed to change. I was then lead forward in the building, but I'm
not sure I was in the dome anymore as I saw a strange big room with
a religious feeling to it.

My impression of the "religious room" was not perfect. I saw some kind
of altar area which was raised. To the right of the altar area an old
man was kneeling and praying. He had long grey hair and a beard. I think
he was thin and reminded me a little of the Gandalf character in the LOTR
movie. The old man wore a kind of "nightgown", I don't know if that is
the right name. The dress looked like a beige long chemise with long
sleeves in a robe style, but with a closed front like an anorak. The
"nightgown" went all the way down to his feet.

The altar and the old man was in some kind of "frozen" setting, like
time had stood still and the old man had not moved for a very long time.

I'm not sure the area was covered with frost, it could have been any
kind of dust too.

I tried to get the old man's attention, but didn't succeed. I now started
to think that this was some kind of retrieval, so I sent the old man some
PUL, but still didn't get his attention. I wondered if this old man was
an Aspect of Self, so I entered into him, but I still didn't got any
success. I think I got him to fly with me or I hoped that I managed to
get him to fly, but the old man was somehow pale. I think a Helper went
in and the old man faded out of my sight.



--- Session three - Retrieval ---

Apparently I had failed to do the retrieval, which the events of the
next day would prove.

I started the next day with a simple meditation session, and fell asleep.

A little later I made a second session, and used JOOB D, because it gave
me such a success the day before.

I went back to the guy who had claimed his name was Tom Hanks. He was still
standing in the same position in front of the huge dome building on
the green well-maintained lawn. He seemed to be waiting for me. He must
be a very patient person I thought.

I asked him where we were. I saw some kind of map or high-altitude view
of the U.S. I then saw a small red area somewhere close to the east coast
of the U.S. Some days later, this dome building became an entry point for
my one and only visit to TMI-There, but I'll skip that story for now as
there was no retrieval involved in that later event.

Instead I was suddenly back in the altar room where the old man was still
kneeling and praying. Everything seemed to be covered in ice, including
the old man.

I tried to contact the old man several times, but was without success.

Then I touched him with my hand. The old man and most of the alter
area and interior of the room slowly pulverized!

I was surely puzzled. I again tried to feel if the old man was an Aspect
of myself, and tried to absorb whatever was left out of me, but got no go.

It seemed like I've done the wrong thing.

I went out of the room and out of the dome and met "Tom Hanks" on the
lawn. He took me for a walk and from the lawn, which was on high ground,
we could view some kind of town. I even think we went down to the town
and walked some streets.

Suddenly it was raining! I don't think I clicked out, but instead I think
I was moved! Again I was on the steel ship on the ocean, from the day
before!

The ship was big, at least 50 meters long and a heavy construction. I
never figured out what purpose the ship had, but it seemed to have strong
engines. I got the impression that it was cold weather, stormy, high waves,
and the ship rolled about.
I put out a request to get to know where this ship was. I then saw a map
or similar of the north of Europe and a red dot in the Atlantic Ocean
just outside the north part of Norway.

I felt clueless. What was I doing on that ship?

Immediately I was back in a room with the old man I had met before. But
the scene was different.

The room had no snow, frost or dust within. The lighting of the room was
brilliant, like these too light indoor TV-scenes of late 1970s British
dramas, where the director has flooded the rooms with spotlights. It was
brilliantly lit. The altar setting was gone. Instead I was in a room where
I could not perceive the walls, as they were too far away, hidden in the dark.

In the middle of the room there was a very heavy wooden table of an age
unknown to me. A few extremely heavy wooden chairs was around the table.
The table had a length of about 5 meters and 1.5 meters across. On the
table I could clearly sense a small chalice, probably to be used by one
person only to drink during a meal. The chalice had the straight handle
of a rummer, and the chalice seemed to be very old, of excellent rough
quality, perhaps made of metal, wood (the handle?) , and perhaps glas or
ceramics.

The old man was brightly lit up be some kind of light source from above.
The scene was in my non-visual eye, but had the quality of good quality
TV show. The old man now seemed much more human and less like a statue.

He held his hands together like he was praying, but I don't know if he
actually was praying. I could get very few feelings from him and I
guesses that he might be 60 - 70 years old. His face was slim and he
had a ling slim nose, which was a little thicker on the middle.

I asked for time and first sensed the 15th century, then got the year
to be around 830. I asked for a name and got Jesiah (spelled that way).
I thought the name sounded Biblic. I also got to see a second map, showing
England with a red dot somewhere between current location of London and Wales.

I tried to make the old man leave, and spoke to him and sent PUL. I sensed
that he was partly ready to leave, but hesitated. Usually I tell the
discarnates that there are people wanting to met them, but by some reason
I didn't tell this old man that there were people wanting to meet him.

The old man then rose into the air, and I thought "Ohh.. now he leaves to
Focus 27, or some higher plane..."

But the old man stopped in mid air, a few meters above ground, with his
arms loosely hovering above shoulder height, and with face
partly looking up in the air. I also sensed that he was lit up from
above, with some kind of strong light.

He didn't seem to want to leave.
I looked at his heavy wooden table and noticed two or three red apples,
which I hadn't seen before. The apples looked fresh and had a dark red
color. I got the impression that the old man didn't want to leave because
he didn't believe that there was such good apples in "Heaven" or whatever
place he thought he was going.

I manifested a huge bunch of red apples on his table and said he could
take them with him. I also said there were lots of those apples in Heaven.

He moved down to the table and pick up a lot of apples in his dress, using
it as an "apron apple bag" in front of his stomach.

Then he rose into the air, but again stopped a few meters above the floor.

To make a long story short. There was some arguing between me and him, and
I claimed that there were lots of apple trees in heaven and that he could
become an apple tree gardener if he wanted to. I also said there was lots
of apple tree gardeners in Heaven already and he could join them.

At some point in our discussion, the old man was surrounded what to me looked
like apple tree gardeners.

I then got tons of chills down my back and for a short moment I think I
sensed him moving forward in air with his arms stretched in front of him.

I was not completely sure that I managed to succeed with that retrieval,
but since the scenery hasn't returned, I think the old man isn't in F 23
anymore.

I was a little surprised that PUL didn't work as I thought this time. Maybe
I'm poor at sending PUL or PUL wasn't as effective as I thought it to be?

This old man was very connected to Earthly red apples.

I wonder what the frost or snow was. If it served the purpose to show me
that a lot of time had passed or if it was a result of my inability to
pick up emotionally on the old man, Jesiah.

I also think that when I touched the frost and everything crumbled and
turned into dust, the Helpers temporarily moved me to the steel ship,
in order to reset the Jesiah surroundings in a way so I could better
sense Jesiah and his surroundings.


---

There was now a short change of scene and I saw a person I helped retrieve
some time ago. It was the fat bicycle guy. His depression seemed gone and
he seemed happy. I also got his name, like a nick name.



--- Session five - steel ship ---

What would become "Session four" the next day was uneventful.

Instead, two days after the retrieval of Jesiah, I wanted to go back
to the room with the heavy wooden table. The room was empty. I only
saw the table and the three heavy wooden chairs. i realized that this
was a room with furniture for someone rich or prominent. I sensed at least
one chalice on the table, too.

I got the impression from Tom Hanks that I was done and Jesiah was retrieved.

Then I was transferred back to the steel ship outside Norway. I can make
this story a little shorter as it was not so unusual. On the ship, below
deck there was a Finish engineer with a name that ended in "-Mäki", which
also could be the place where he originated from. He was working alone,
repairing some part of the ships engine or interior.

The part he showed to me could be part of a transmission. We talked about
that engine part and he seemed to think I also worked with ship engines.

I somehow got the feeling that the ship could have been some kind of war
ship, as lot of it was made of gray steel plates, with perhaps minor
areas containing light blue painting.

I talked with the Finish engineer just to transfer some energy and make
Helpers able to step in and take over. I finally sensed someone behind me
and that person stepped in and started talking to the engineer from Finland.


========================================================



My response to some feedback:


Yes the Tom Hanks name was perhaps to help me know that even if the man in suit meant "serious business" I should see it as not overly serious too and keep a fun attitude.

I looked up wikipedia and the story about Johnny Appleseed, it was interesting. Anything is possible. The numbers could be other things than years, perhaps acres of land even. I remember that it looked a little funny when "Jesiah" used his chemise/nightgown as an apron and he floated a bit up in air, holding his hands like he was carrying a tray in front of his stomach to keep the apples in place. So apples were important to him. (Edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Appleseed )

I somehow felt a little guilty as well, as it wasn't 'real' physical apples I managed to make him pick with him to 'Heaven'. The manifestation of the apples may have been prepared by Helpers, and I most likely did very little to 'create' them on the wooden table.

And yes, some time afterwards I got the feeling that Jesiah might have been an important contribution to his Disk or perhaps just very difficult to convince to leave his F 23 place.

What is disturbing to me is that some of these 'retrieval' experiences I've had, are not like other people's retrievals, which make me doubt how much I make up and how much is real. For example, in the Jesiah case, he was hovering in the air at the first instant, I would have expected to see some Helper trying to make him leave. It puzzled me that I saw no one else than Jesiah himself, just hanging in mid air. It almost looked like he was under water, just floating vertically with his arms above his shoulders and hands at level with the top of his head.

I'm also a little puzzled that my sending of PUL seemed to do so little for Jesiah.

Maybe Jesiah didn't want to go to 'Heaven' as he suspected that apples there were not real in a sense; not being physical apples?


And some time later:

I tried hard to focus in on the Tom Hanks person yesterday. After some attempts I got the following:

There were in fact Helpers present, trying to move Jesiah from F 23. Tom H showed me the view where Jesiah was suspended in mid air, with his arms somewhat up at the sides of his head. I could vaguely spot two Helpers pulling in vain at his arms to get Jesiah from his place.

I also asked why my PUL didn't work, and first I got no answer that I could interpret. But after some repeated asking from my side, Tom H showed me Jesiah while he was praying. And then I saw a big bird's cage over Jesiah. It looked like he was locked in, inside the bird's cage.

The "door" in the bird's cage was too small for Jesiah to exit through, but the there was no bottom in the cage, so he could easily have lifted the cage and exited if he wanted.

You are probably as good as I am to interpret the last view.