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I wonder what Covelo is up to...

Anyway, I have a question for the Elohim...

I'd like to know if humans were created through divine intervention, intervention from another alien species, or through extremely lucky evolution. To make the question precise: Who decided that we should go from 48 to 46 chromosomes, and who "programmed" our DNA this way?

Can you tell us more about why humans are "superior" on earth ; is it the fault of the laws of nature that we do not live among other intelligent, civilized species?
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When's the next channeling session?

Apparently Nature magazine published information suggesting that modern humans acquired 223 genes, not vertically via the mechanisms of evolution, but horizontally by a non-evolutionary mechanism. The explanation is that this was a sideways insertion of genetic material from bacteria.

Yeah... This is something I learned in school, they made us compare human and chimpanzee chromosomes -- you can clearly see that it's as if someone decided to take one of the chimpanzee chromosomes, assemble it with the one next to it, and created the first human!

This is something that scares me a bit, as well... What if it's not divine intervention? What if we were designed by an alien race and are somehow being exploited?

If they have mastered DNA manipulation to such an extent that they were able to create a viable, intelligent species... Could they have programmed our brains to be able to control us one day?

Of course we can create lots of paranoid theories... I guess it's better to try and find out from someone who might know

I'm going to ask in the channeling thread and see if the Elohim has something interesting to say about it :p

Well hrmm... My last attunement (KR9) is tomorrow... I still haven't felt a thing, especially not when trying to heal someone, either locally or remotely...

I'm very skeptical.

I think in regards to the energy body, all lifeforms are "created equal" ; it is their physical body that is different.

I do believe that some form of divine intervention was involved in the creation of man, though... If you look at the differences between human DNA and chimpanzee DNA... The evolution from one to the other is very clear, but the chances that this mutation would happen randomly and to a male and female of the same population, in such a way that they could mate, are probably one to infinity...

It's as if something spliced some DNA around and created us from chimpanzees (or a more primitive version of them). This is the reason we often hear of a "missing link" -- there's just something that is missing between all the other species on earth and us...

According to this way of thinking, God is not human in the physical sense, but I believe that we were given the tools to become gods, to harness the powers of Kundalini, the energy body, etc...

Look at the greys, those Roswell aliens... Don't they look a hell of a lot like they'd have the same chakras/energy bodies as ourselves? If they're real, of course... Perhaps there is a "perfect physical body shape" which gives lifeforms access (physical and psychological) to the full extent of their subtle bodies?

I always wonder, when I speculate about these kinds of things, how far I am from the "truth..."

kiwibonga,
First time ive read your OBE14 article, it looks very interesting. I know your after critisism and i may be able to supply some but only after ive tried your methods. Before i start i was wondering how successful it was for you? did the armtrick drive you to sleep paralysis at any point?

If you look at the last chapter before the conclusion, I've listed the effects I got from it. The arm trick is not really an exit technique, it's meant to help you become conscious after you've fallen asleep.

I noticed a lot of spontaneous projectors have achieved greater awareness during dreams or had lucid dreams after being repeatedly reminded to pay attention while sleeping.

Monroe, for example, was experimenting with sleep-learning ; he would play educational tapes while he was asleep and would see if he could remember the tape in the morning. One day, he woke up with a big knot in his stomach (probably an energy blockage of some kind) and later on, he became a systematic spontaneous projector. He did think there was some kind of relationship to the tapes, and I am pretty sure he was right in that regard.

I know a good share of my false awakenings were due to falling asleep while doing something that required my attention. Sometimes it would happen in class, it would happen while watching TV, it even happened on a bus one time when I was very tired -- I dreamt that I got off at my stop... When I realized I still felt the vibrations of the seat, I realized I was actually dreaming.

The idea here is that if you are able to force yourself to become conscious repeatedly, you will be able to strengthen your ability to become aware while asleep.

So far, I've realized that no amount of visualization would help me out of my body -- I don't know if I'm a special case, but by the time I am body asleep/mind awake, I am already in control of my astral body, and all I need to do is float up or get up, and I'll be out... Achieving this state is in the end the hardest thing to do...

With the arm trick, you can give yourself as many chances to experience the asleep/awake border as you like every night, while attempting conscious exit projections every night will only give you one try a night -- if you fall asleep, you'll have to do it all over again the next day. I think it's no wonder the "noobies" have such a high rate of failure and need months or years to get their first experience -- the books do not underline how important "hypnogogic play" is... The authors only mention it a little, and leave the rest pretty much to luck!

I personally think it's a mandatory step for anyone -- if you have absolutely no control over the subconscious mind, the best you'll ever get is passive dreams...

Both are pretty much intertwined, but in the end I think perhaps we should make the distinction between lucidity and awareness...

In dreams, you are a little lucid (you can see and hear) but not aware at all (you do not know you are in a dream until you wake up).

I guess that's why training memory alone or awareness alone wouldn't work at all!

I posted about this on another thread, but since it's directly related to this memory theory, I'll post it here too:

I wrote something the other day to help people achieve greater awareness.

The document is (optimistically named) OBE14 - Inducing an OBE in (less than) 2 weeks

http://www.kiwibonga.com/OBE14.pdf

The exercises I propose are things I think have worked for myself and others, and could possibly work for you. The approach is different from other things you've read because it focuses on helping you induce OBEs naturally when you fall asleep, and basically prepares you to try all the wake-induced OBE techniques.

I'm also looking for advice to improve it, so feel free to provide feedback.

Not many people have given feedback besides "Wow! This makes sense and looks like it'll probably work!" ; but I'm really looking for criticism and suggestions to improve it rather than words of praise :S

I wrote something the other day to help people achieve greater awareness.

The document is (optimistically named) OBE14 - Inducing an OBE in (less than) 2 weeks

http://www.kiwibonga.com/OBE14.pdf

The exercises I propose are things I think have worked for myself and others, and could possibly work for you. The approach is different from other things you've read because it focuses on helping you induce OBEs naturally when you fall asleep, and basically prepares you to try all the wake-induced OBE techniques.

I'm also looking for advice to improve it, so feel free to provide feedback.

Ah, I was afraid you might skip it because of your busy schedule.

Good choice

That is probably hypnogogic imagery... Which is odd because if someone told me they saw pink instead of the darkness behind their eyelids, I would also say it's hypnogogic imagery...

There is a good description of hypnogogic imagery in "DO_OBE" -- it's a pdf file you can easily find by typing "do_obe.pdf" in google. Perhaps it will be of some use to you.

I wouldn't advise you to read only Robert Peterson's book, though...

It is an awesome book, but he is not very objective in some parts. For instance, he believes a lucid dream is not an OBE. It's just one opinion among others.

Astral Dynamics is important because it's probably the most advanced in terms of understanding human energy and our ability to leave the body. I would highly recommend it, even though it's pretty long and "heavy" with information.

Robert Peterson's first book, "Out of Body Experiences: How to have them and what to expect" would be the old testament.
Robert Bruce's "Astral Dynamics" would be the new testament.

Science certainly doesn't interfere with much. Nobody can prove that the astral doesn't exist, so science has it as "maybe" -- rare are the scientists who rule out the existence of other dimensions beyond our scope of perception.

Those who do are not scientists. Science has no room for dogmas.

Where did the original poster run off to anyway?

Robert Bruce says this is common -- you feel the vibrations then nothing.

According to him, you have exited. The problem is, you did not remember the projection. A copy of you was made and left, while you were sitting there, frustrated that you didn't exit.

Next time this happens, tell yourself to remember to come back after just a few seconds. Out of nowhere, you will suddenly receive memories of your exit, which will be added to your memories of feeling bummed that you didn't exit.

If you stay out for too long, you might not be able to remember, so "keep the first few ones short, one short OBE you remember is better than 1000 OBEs you forget," to paraphrase Mr. Bruce.

Lucid dreams occur in the astral. You are out of body when you are lucid dreaming.

The thing is, they are dismissed as lucid dreams because they are "not real" ; in other words, you are so affected by your subconscious that reality will be distorted to the point that you are in "dream land".

All you need to do to have a "real" OBE is to suppress manifestations of your subconscious. Do not expect or doubt the things around you, observe them objectively.

With enough practice and focus, you will find that you are not merely dreaming in the archaic sense (i.e. creating a movie in your head), but you're "really out there" with a perception fogged up by your expectations, fears, doubts, desires, etc.

Control over this is the key to turning a "lucid dream" into an OBE.

The two components are memory and awareness.... But if you do not automatically bring your memory along with you when you re-enter the body, awareness is useless, since it is as if it never happened!

Anyway, I experienced something interesting this morning. I had a long dream, but when I woke up from it, I did not have a single memory of it. I kept telling myself "Damn, why don't I dream anymore?"

And all of a sudden, it "hit me..." I instantly remembered my dream. I had woken up right at the end of it too! This sounds a lot like the mind split effect Robert Bruce mentions, as if my "dream self" was still out there having that embarrassing wet dream I won't describe, and only came back when I wished for it to come back.

Anyway, "normal people" never have lucid dreams or conscious OBEs because they let the subconscious take over entirely and will just dream.

When people do auto-suggestion in the form of "I will remember my dreams," however, somehow, they do remember them. I for one had a dream a month at best, until I started doing OBE practice again, and told myself to remember my experiences. From there on I was able to remember 3 or 4 dreams a week!


I think the problem is not that people did not understand the memory phenomenon, because all lucid dream and OBE experts do mention at some point self-affirmations to remember your dreams. It just seems that if you train your awareness on one side (with Monroe's "arm trick" for instance) and you train your memory on the other (through repeated self-affirmations) -- you can potentially lucid dream every night.

Then all you have to do is make sure you stay in the RTZ, and everything will be a-okay!

I posted it on Jonas Ridgeway's forum and I thought it would be a good idea to post it here too.

Here's the theory:

Every night, you leave the body.

Every night since you were born, you have had awesome adventures every night.

The problem is... You didn't know it but there is something you need to do before you re-enter the body, or before you get "called back" that will allow you to "download your astral memories for the night into your brain." (As Robert Bruce says)

Having never realized this, you have never, ever been able to "evolve" because every time you left the body, it felt like it was the first time. And every time you came back to your body, you didn't even know something happened in your sleep.

Sometimes you have dreams, sometimes you don't, right?

Actually you do dream every night. Same thing applies, you just don't remember it.

Dreams are subconscious-polluted OBEs. Sometimes your subconscious is so strong, you don't appear to control them, you are watching everything passively.


So take action.

Tonight, and every other night, you will remember this:

1. I will not passively watch my dreams unfold. Heck, I will not even have a passive dream. My dream will be lucid.

2. Before I come back, I will do everything in my power to upload my memory to my brain before entering the body again.


Remember that you only get one try each night. You will not know if it worked until it actually does.

Good luck, Jim!

From now until next week, I will create a little box in the astral before being called back. This little box will be similar to the thought balls Monroe described in his books. In it, I will put, in "universal telepathic format," everything that happened during the OBE, as it unfolds (not at the end before going back).

This "Spirit recorder" will be attached to me at all times. I will not forget its presence and it will contain all of my perceptions.

Once I go back to my body, I will put the spirit recorder box under my pillow. If I do not remember what happened during the night, at least my spirit recorder will still be intact in the astral.

Every time I go back and don't remember last night's OBE, I will pick up my spirit recorder and play everything back, so I can pick up where I left off the night before.

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Sounds simple, doesn't it?

Anyway, I feel perhaps I should clarify on my theory:

On one side, you have awareness. With low awareness (i.e. being unconscious), your subconscious is in control. With higher awareness, you have "lucid dreams." With even higher awareness and control over your focus, you have "RTZ projections."

On the other side, you have memory. Everything that happens to you while aware gets copied to your memory. Where this memory is located is probably your current "consciousness vehicle" ; meaning one of your non-physical doubles.

The theory is basically that having control over awareness does not necessarily mean you will have any memory of your "adventures."

The "big secret" would be that your memory usually gets erased every night. People who have spontaneous OBEs are gifted with high awareness. Those who remember it and share their experiences with us are gifted with good memory.

I know many people who do not ever remember their dreams, and many people who remember all their dreams but never have control over them.

Nobody, obviously, would be able to tell of their experiences if they do not have memory of them.

There is =nothing= in all the things I've read so far that would be able to disprove the theory that memory is the single most important component... Everything else is there clear as day, and the most successful "technique" is critically acclaimed as being a transfer from a lucid dream to the RTZ.

So... Basically... Someone disprove it before I go crazy and start preaching the memory theory to everyone  

The idea here is basically built on the "fact" that we project every night when we go to sleep. Supposedly we dream every night, and dreams are nothing but unconscious events.

Autosuggestion works very well to have lucid dreams. Is it because it allows you to become aware while asleep, or is it simply because it makes you focus on remembering your dreams?

Perhaps every night we AP for hours and come back to our bodies, only to never remember it afterwards!

Is there a technique we can do before going back to ensure we'll remember?

Is it really all that useful to "torture ourselves" with all these conscious techniques, which in the end seem just like very elaborate ways to fall asleep?

Your input is greatly appreciated

People, if telekinesis were real, do you realize we could cure cancer, heart disease, set broken bones, straighten crooked spines, cure blindness, etc.!

And we don't already do these things with reiki?

:/

It is possible that it's them, however, it's also possible that it's not.

Because your subconscious mind is so powerful, very often you'll meet people from real life while out of body but it won't really be them. It'll be either the idea you have of them, or the actual "collective conscious" version of them.

In other words, imagine you have a conversation with them in the astral; when you then meet them in real life, you'll find that to them, most of the time, it'll be like it never happened, even if, in the astral, they tell you things you couldn't possibly have made up.

It is rumored that when you talk to someone who is awake from the astral, you can talk directly to their astral self and affect their subconscious. If you are successful at staying in the real time zone, you would therefore be able to telepathically communicate with them.

Then there is of course "collective dreams" where two people realize they had the exact same dream and communicated with each other. This is what is considered "real" contact with each others' astral selves, and it is very hard to achieve on purpose.

Well, the atmic plane is the one instance of something that could prevent you from going back to your body. Several authors reported feeling compelled to stay forever, until someone came and told them to be careful and go back now, as staying here is not what they wanted.

The last thing you want is to come back after a week to find your body dead from dehydration :p

This is probably because you are "not a good sleeper" -- if you practice and improve your sleeping conditions by teaching yourself to attain deeper sleep, you will probably be able to reproduce what those drugs do.

The drugs themselves do not cause the AP or dreams, though, it is just the way they put your body into a deeper sleep than usual that causes this.

I've experienced the countrary...

The other day I was attempting an exit and my body was getting unusually hot... It was burning... Eventually, I saw a man wearing a robe standing at the foot of my bed for a brief moment...

He wasn't a threatening entity, he seemed more neutral than anything, observing quietly... Also didn't seem familiar or related... But he did seem like a tremendously powerful person who will fight to protect those he loves.

Whenever I've seen a foreign entity so far I was able to "see" their state of mind in a way, literally "peering into their soul," both visually and mentally.

I wonder what their dreams are like, especially...

The problem with AP is that you get your senses from human experience... There are more than just 5 senses, and they can be much more developed in the astral, but I don't know if it would be possible to develop sight having never experienced it.

Then again, you could learn your own, very advanced way of seeing the things around you in more than just 2 dimensions and a simulated sense of depth.

Hi

I wanted to come back to this thread to discuss what happened to me with my two experiences.

The experiences were not like anything I've read in the sense that rather than having just one separation and going back, whenever I got called back to my body, I would instantly be able to leave again.

My second experience was particularly vivid and long, I don't know how much of the two hours of sleep it did take up, but I did experience over 15 "call backs" followed by separation.

What's your opinion on this?